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Forums - Sony - Is the PS4 Sony's last big effort?

torok said:
Gilgamesh said:
I'm just scared of these 3D rumors if Sony may go with for the PS4, seems like a dead end, now this virtual reality prototype, that could be something interesting to follow.

3D isn't a problem, it's just an other feature that's is nice to have. They won't lose money supporting 3D (PS3 got it in a firmware upgrade, so no special hardware is required), and the 3D TVs are becoming more popular. When we got the first cheap models without glasses, it will be another boom for the tech. So it's a good featire to have.

 

kowenicki said:

Incorrect 

 

 

kowenicki, the source of this data has the meaning of the shortenings? Looks like they have two very sick divisions, while the others are doing fine.

 


IP & S = Imaging Products and Solutions

MP & C =  Mobile Products and Communications

HE & S = Home Entertainment and Sound



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Great informative post that was in GAF about the state of Japanese electonic giants

'' Sharp = Dead

Sony are probably going to be fine. They are profitable and once their tax situation is normalised I don't see them having a problem. The reason they are fine is that in 2008 they slimmed down their Japanese operation by around 30,000 and their international operation by the same figure, they then went on to shed another 10,000 Japan based jobs after the Tsunami. In pure numbers, Sony now employ under half the number of Japanese employees than they did in 2007.

Not only that but they also have a profitable finance and insurance division which brings in around $1bn per year, so if things got really desperate they could spin it off and cash in around $12bn to clear debt and invest. Right now they don't need to do that. Next, Sony are in fast growing areas of business, they were recently confirmed as the third largest smartphone player by shipments, overtaking Motorola, HTC, RIM and Nokia. They have also recently entered the highly profitable medical technology field with the world's second largest player, Olympus. Sony and Olympus have opened a joint venture in which Sony hold an option to buy from Olympus at any time of their choosing after 2015 at market price.

Where Sony are weak, TVs, Laptops and tablets. Of these tablets are the most essential for Sony to break into, the Xperia Tablet S was very well received, but then they recalled it and it has hurt their reputation and sales, they should still go on to ship around 2m WW this year which is a good base to work from.

The TV division lost just ¥10bn in the first half of the year, this is down from around ¥40bn, so Kaz has stemmed the major bleeding in the division, some analysts believe that if 2013/14 is not profitable for Sony in TVs they will exit the market. This move alone will cause a massive rise in their share price as the TV division is seen as the biggest money loser (around $9bn since 2004). If they can make it work with premium screens such as the 84" 4K (which has sold through it's first and second production shipments) and new technology such as CLED and OLED, then I they have a good shot at overhauling Samsung.

On Laptops, it is difficult to say what Sony should do with the Vaio division, some say they should just turn it into a high end tablet brand for Windows 8 with professional oriented feature sets (12bit screens, Wacom pen input, ships with Photoshop or other professional creative software) or shitcan it altogether. I think eventually they will go for the former and produce high margin professional products and give up on being a volume player as there is no money in it for a company that pays 10x the going rate for manufacturing (Japan vs China manufacturing costs).

Panasonic are in a very difficult position, they are losing scads of money on TVs, their ill advised investment in Sanyo and on smartphones. However, they have a lot of cash in the bank and could turn it around yet. On TVs, expect 2013 to be the last year in which Panasonic make Plasma screen TVs, production is too expensive and prices are too low. One of our analysts said that for 2011 and 2012 Pansonic had just 3 profitable TVs, all others were sold at or below their cost to produce and ship, they had around 50 separate SKUs.

If Panasonic can make their joint venture with Sony work for OLED expect them to stay in the market, however, their better capitalised Korean competitors have not been able to, so at this point I remain sceptical that OLED can ever be productised for large screen TVs. Sony are the only company who have OLED screens on sale, they cost around $17,000-25,000 for 17-24" broadcast quality screens. Even with a regular consumer mark up it puts OLED at around $10k for 24" on current technology. The reason Samsung and LG have delayed OLED to 2013 is because they can't get 55" under $12k and remain profitable. LG are going to ship 500 OLED TVs in 2012 to meet investor targets and all will all be sold below cost of production at over $10k per piece. It just shows the scale of the problem manufacturers are facing with large screen OLED production. It is just too much and too error prone. Panasonic have spent a lot of money capitalising a JV with Sony who are providing no money and technological expertise, if it fails then I will fear for the future of Panasonic.

Next, they still have to write down more goodwill from their Sanyo purchase, however that money has already been spent, so it will not affect their cash balance. It will however put a lot of pressure on the board as they made that idiotic decision to invest a lot of money in a sector that the Chinese were so clearly going to dominate.

Finally, they also entered the smartphone market with their "Eluga" line up. It was well received in the countries it came out in, but there lies the problem - it was only released in small quantities but they produced millions of the bloody things causing a massive stock write down as so many units went unsold (look at THQ to see where this leads). The company has now exited the smartphone market so at least this mistake won't be repeated.

On their strengths, they still have a good market presence in compact and mirrorless cameras, but they are under a lot of pressure from Sony, Olympus and more recently Canon. Their OLED light panels are pretty popular in Japan, but more as a party trick than anything else and it is a joint venture.

This is a rundown of the companies in question. Of the three Sony are clearly in the strongest position going forwards because of their action in 2008 to reduce Japanese production capacity and employment while also being competitive in growing markets like smartphones and medical tech as well as being very strong in image sensors and cameras.''





sub-zero-TM said:
Gilgamesh said:

Well it's not looking good obviously, thread after thread I'm getting more and more discouraged that my favorite gaming company is doing worst and worst (A lot of double words there). There doesn't seem to be anything big for the future on other Sony gadgets except for the PS4, so can Sony afford to release a console that will cost them money for maybe another year? will they attempt at a profitable console?

It really seems like the PS4 is the only thing they have left up there sleeves (if there's something else out there that there working on that looks like it can make them some good profit please let me know so I can keep an eye on it), so if it does horrible could this bankrupt Sony? Could it be the end of Sony's gaming division? it's really scary I'm to old to develope another hobby! 


dude you are delusional you're letting the bullshit articles on internet affect you! nothing will happen,mega big companies like Sony can't go bankrupt and simply vanish! And i really don't care about Sony's other products i only care about the playstation brand and that brand is not going anywhere.

Not saying there going to go away forever, just downsize big time which is never good for any company. GM went bankrupt a few years back, doing pretty good now actually.



I'm so sick of these gloom and doom sony articles. Sony does not care what you think or what you say. They make new phones , tvs. and camera's , computers so what are you talking about. They have won many awards on there cameras release almost yearly. PS Vita is a great piece of tech and the holidays are not even here yet. WAIT until after the holidays. And oh PS4 will not cost as much to make as PS3 and sony will not go bankrupt making this console. SONY is making huge money off there movies right now HELLO SKYFALL is making a ton of money. Add SKYFALL to the list of sony movie hits this year 80% of there movies make profit or double it.STOP WITH YOUR NEGATIVE GLOOM AND DOOM ARTICLES!



It looks really not good for Sony, if the PS4 is a Flop than it is probably the end. The Ps3 never will bring back its development costs, the Ps Vita seems to be a mega Flop and all the other Sony Products (TVs, Phones, Laptops ect) make also no profit.
The PS4 needs to be successful if not Sony might get bankrupt.

I really hope that the PS4 is a success and I hope they learnd form their mistake of the past. I hope the ps4 will be affordable for everyone right from the beginning, not again a 600Euro Flop disaster with no Games the first three years like the Ps3 was.



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Damn it Sony all these money is going into The Last Guardian development cost.



 

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Well, Sony is in for a rough ride. They had their credit rating cut again just a few days ago, making it harder for them to loan money, and getting a higher interest rate. That's by no means good.

But I don't think you have to worry Gilgamesh; The PS4 WILL come! I don't think it'll be a major leap over current gen (like how PS3 was a major leap over PS2), but others disagree. As long as PS4 doesn't bleed money or is a flop I'm sure we'll see PS5 sooner or later!



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

Iam hoping that the ps4 is awesome because iam only geting that one.



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jayson1 said:
I'm so sick of these gloom and doom sony articles. Sony does not care what you think or what you say. They make new phones , tvs. and camera's , computers so what are you talking about. They have won many awards on there cameras release almost yearly. PS Vita is a great piece of tech and the holidays are not even here yet. WAIT until after the holidays. And oh PS4 will not cost as much to make as PS3 and sony will not go bankrupt making this console. SONY is making huge money off there movies right now HELLO SKYFALL is making a ton of money. Add SKYFALL to the list of sony movie hits this year 80% of there movies make profit or double it.STOP WITH YOUR NEGATIVE GLOOM AND DOOM ARTICLES!


I hate to point this out bro but their story as it is being written right now is reading like sega in their final years. The only difference is ps3 gained relevance whereas saturn flopped. But both have the same problem at this time. They aren't ready to move on but the market shift will force them to. I can't say how bad they are financially compared to sega right now but it is obvious they aren't ready for ps4. They can't afford to be too far behind microsoft or ps4 will be a gamecube at best. Which was still successful but that is because nintendo like to rake money as best they can.

@ Joe good to hear. It is always sad news where games get cancelled and you find out about them. I can agree with sony's decision to close zipper. To me they always made average games at best. But liverpool was one of their better studios. Just my opinion though.



One more thing to complete my year = senran kagura localization =D

kowenicki said:
binary solo said:
Gilgamesh said:

Well it's not looking good obviously, thread after thread I'm getting more and more discouraged that my favorite gaming company is doing worst and worst (A lot of double words there). There doesn't seem to be anything big for the future on other Sony gadgets except for the PS4, so can Sony afford to release a console that will cost them money for maybe another year? will they attempt at a profitable console?

It really seems like the PS4 is the only thing they have left up there sleeves (if there's something else out there that there working on that looks like it can make them some good profit please let me know so I can keep an eye on it), so if it does horrible could this bankrupt Sony? Could it be the end of Sony's gaming division? it's really scary I'm to old to develope another hobby! 

Why would Sony get rid of the only division that's currently profitable?

Incorrect 

 

 

Fair point. But the point still stands, why ditch a profitable division (even if only slightly so) as a strategy for improving the company's performance?

The good news there is that there are more departments in +ve operating income territory than -ve. And Devices went from negative to positive. But what happened to MP&C, and what is MP&C? Massive increase in revenue, massive drop in operating income. Pictures dropped the ball a bit but I think Q3 should be better with some movies grossing quite well. Skyfall is creaming it, highest grossing Bond movie ever. And Resident Evil has made buckets of cash outside the USA.



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