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Forums - Politics Discussion - US Senate candidate: Pregnancy from rape can be ‘something that God intended to happen’

bluesinG on 25 October 2012
killerzX said:
Mr Khan said:
happydolphin said:
Proclus said:
Fucking idiot.

Pardon my French.

I still don't get what is so idiotic about it. The person said the obvious: the baby was born, and that is a miracle of life.

Question, what if you were that baby? Yes, you would want to be born regardless, because that's what fighters do, they strive to survive and live life to the fullest.

The person even clearly said they thought rape was wrong. Anyways.

If i have no consciousness, i can't think.

While i believe abortion is not a decision to be made lightly, unborn babies have no "life" in the sense of human, sacred and inviolable life. Theirs is on the level of animal life, which is also not meant to be disposed of lightly, but lacks that core aspect of "self" that grants inherent human rights.

so then when does the child earn human status? at 3 months pregnant,  6 months, 9 months, what about after its born, 1 week, 1 year. when? when does it earn the right to be called human?

humans get pregnant with humans, thats how biology works.

I believe they become a person when they are born. When they leave their mother's body and begin to breathe.



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appolose on 25 October 2012
Torillian said:
DélioPT said:
14 pages had to be about something.
He didn`t support rape: "And I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen.”
All he is saying that creating life - despite the origin - is something that comes from God. It was God`s plan that despite what happened, still, a life should arise.
Maybe, just maybe, this child will be the best thing to happen to the mother even being born under such conditions.


That is possible, but then anything is.  What people don't like about the idea of every single abortion being illegal is that it makes rape that much worse because there's no part of this where the woman gets a choice.  Maybe that baby will change her life for the better, but that should be her decision, not something that the government forces on her in the worst time of her life.  Just seems logical on my end.  Yes it's unfortunate that a human life will never come to be, but rape shouldn't have that added possible punishment added onto it for the victim.  

But for anyone who sincerely holds to the belief that a fetus is a human, allowing abortion makes the rape all the more horrible, in that now there are two victims instead of one.



Okami

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DélioPT on 25 October 2012
Torillian said:
DélioPT said:
14 pages had to be about something.
He didn`t support rape: "And I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen.”
All he is saying that creating life - despite the origin - is something that comes from God. It was God`s plan that despite what happened, still, a life should arise.
Maybe, just maybe, this child will be the best thing to happen to the mother even being born under such conditions.


That is possible, but then anything is.  What people don't like about the idea of every single abortion being illegal is that it makes rape that much worse because there's no part of this where the woman gets a choice.  Maybe that baby will change her life for the better, but that should be her decision, not something that the government forces on her in the worst time of her life.  Just seems logical on my end.  Yes it's unfortunate that a human life will never come to be, but rape shouldn't have that added possible punishment added onto it for the victim.  

The government is protecting the other innocent in the story.
From a certain perspective i think it`s good that the system doesn`t encourage decisions based on suffering. Be that abortions as a consequence of rape or any other kind of consequences. To me, one of the objetives of a any government is to guide people do the best they can; to be the best they can, despite the circumntances.
By not allowing abortion in this case, it also helps the victim to try and not fall victim to despair, a despair that would have consequences that the person couldn`t take back ever.

I know that what i`m saying might sound strange but i hope you can understand what i`m trying to say here.
In the end, it`s bad enough what happened, let`s not make it any worse.



killerzX on 25 October 2012
bluesinG said:
Torillian said:
DélioPT said:
14 pages had to be about something.
He didn`t support rape: "And I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen.”
All he is saying that creating life - despite the origin - is something that comes from God. It was God`s plan that despite what happened, still, a life should arise.
Maybe, just maybe, this child will be the best thing to happen to the mother even being born under such conditions.


That is possible, but then anything is.  What people don't like about the idea of every single abortion being illegal is that it makes rape that much worse because there's no part of this where the woman gets a choice.  Maybe that baby will change her life for the better, but that should be her decision, not something that the government forces on her in the worst time of her life.  Just seems logical on my end.  Yes it's unfortunate that a human life will never come to be, but rape shouldn't have that added possible punishment added onto it for the victim.  

Well said. Carrying a rape-induced pregnancy to term should be the woman's choice, not something forced on her by the government.

not for people that think its a human being. he has a consistant argument, that regardless of how the child is concieved, it is a human life.

so for people who believe that, its entirely logical to be against a woman chosing to abort. becuase in their eyes, its murder.



killerzX on 25 October 2012
bluesinG said:
killerzX said:
Mr Khan said:
happydolphin said:
Proclus said:
Fucking idiot.

Pardon my French.

I still don't get what is so idiotic about it. The person said the obvious: the baby was born, and that is a miracle of life.

Question, what if you were that baby? Yes, you would want to be born regardless, because that's what fighters do, they strive to survive and live life to the fullest.

The person even clearly said they thought rape was wrong. Anyways.

If i have no consciousness, i can't think.

While i believe abortion is not a decision to be made lightly, unborn babies have no "life" in the sense of human, sacred and inviolable life. Theirs is on the level of animal life, which is also not meant to be disposed of lightly, but lacks that core aspect of "self" that grants inherent human rights.

so then when does the child earn human status? at 3 months pregnant,  6 months, 9 months, what about after its born, 1 week, 1 year. when? when does it earn the right to be called human?

humans get pregnant with humans, thats how biology works.

I believe they become a person when they are born. When they leave their mother's body and begin to breathe.

so 30 seconds before the baby is born, it is a clump of cells, and can be terminated?

while its headed down the birthing-canal, it can have scissor like instruments, stab into its spinal cord, breaking its neck, killing the child, but its not human?

but if they were to do it just 5 seconds later, it would be murder of a human?



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Torillian on 25 October 2012
appolose said:
Torillian said:
DélioPT said:
14 pages had to be about something.
He didn`t support rape: "And I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen.”
All he is saying that creating life - despite the origin - is something that comes from God. It was God`s plan that despite what happened, still, a life should arise.
Maybe, just maybe, this child will be the best thing to happen to the mother even being born under such conditions.


That is possible, but then anything is.  What people don't like about the idea of every single abortion being illegal is that it makes rape that much worse because there's no part of this where the woman gets a choice.  Maybe that baby will change her life for the better, but that should be her decision, not something that the government forces on her in the worst time of her life.  Just seems logical on my end.  Yes it's unfortunate that a human life will never come to be, but rape shouldn't have that added possible punishment added onto it for the victim.  

But for anyone who sincerely holds to the belief that a fetus is a human, allowing abortion makes the rape all the more horrible, in that now there are two victims instead of one.


Oh I think a fetus is a human, not a thinking feeling one yet, but a human none the less.  And it's a shitty situation no doubt, and I'd prefer that the baby came to term, but I won't force it on someone at the lowest point in their life.  If some girl decides to have sex and screws up her birth control then that's on her, but a woman who was raped shouldn't be forced to keep a pregnancy from it.  



...

bluesinG on 25 October 2012
killerzX said:
bluesinG said:
killerzX said:
Mr Khan said:
happydolphin said:
Proclus said:
Fucking idiot.

Pardon my French.

I still don't get what is so idiotic about it. The person said the obvious: the baby was born, and that is a miracle of life.

Question, what if you were that baby? Yes, you would want to be born regardless, because that's what fighters do, they strive to survive and live life to the fullest.

The person even clearly said they thought rape was wrong. Anyways.

If i have no consciousness, i can't think.

While i believe abortion is not a decision to be made lightly, unborn babies have no "life" in the sense of human, sacred and inviolable life. Theirs is on the level of animal life, which is also not meant to be disposed of lightly, but lacks that core aspect of "self" that grants inherent human rights.

so then when does the child earn human status? at 3 months pregnant,  6 months, 9 months, what about after its born, 1 week, 1 year. when? when does it earn the right to be called human?

humans get pregnant with humans, thats how biology works.

I believe they become a person when they are born. When they leave their mother's body and begin to breathe.

so 30 seconds before the baby is born, it is a clump of cells, and can be terminated?

while its headed down the birthing-canal, it can have scissor like instruments, stab into its spinal cord, breaking its neck, killing the child, but its not human?

but if they were to do it just 5 seconds later, it would be murder of a human?

I believe that before it is born, it is a fetus. After it is born, it is a baby.

As for whether and when to abort a fetus, I believe that should be the mother's choice, not something mandated by the government.



Torillian on 25 October 2012
DélioPT said:
Torillian said:
DélioPT said:
14 pages had to be about something.
He didn`t support rape: "And I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen.”
All he is saying that creating life - despite the origin - is something that comes from God. It was God`s plan that despite what happened, still, a life should arise.
Maybe, just maybe, this child will be the best thing to happen to the mother even being born under such conditions.


That is possible, but then anything is.  What people don't like about the idea of every single abortion being illegal is that it makes rape that much worse because there's no part of this where the woman gets a choice.  Maybe that baby will change her life for the better, but that should be her decision, not something that the government forces on her in the worst time of her life.  Just seems logical on my end.  Yes it's unfortunate that a human life will never come to be, but rape shouldn't have that added possible punishment added onto it for the victim.  

The government is protecting the other innocent in the story.
From a certain perspective i think it`s good that the system doesn`t encourage decisions based on suffering. Be that abortions as a consequence of rape or any other kind of consequences. To me, one of the objetives of a any government is to guide people do the best they can; to be the best they can, despite the circumntances.
By not allowing abortion in this case, it also helps the victim to try and not fall victim to despair, a despair that would have consequences that the person couldn`t take back ever.

I know that what i`m saying might sound strange but i hope you can understand what i`m trying to say here.
In the end, it`s bad enough what happened, let`s not make it any worse.

I would suggest that you are the one making the situation worse.  I have to look at it in terms of human suffering.  A fetus that is never brought to term will never feel pain or fear the impending doom.  It'll just die before it got a real chance at life, unfortunate but that's an option that should be up to the rape victim.  On the other hand forcing a woman to take a rape pregnancy to term will cause real human suffering in the here and now.  It's a choice between two shitty options, but it should be a choice none the less.



...

appolose on 25 October 2012
Torillian said:
appolose said:
Torillian said:
DélioPT said:
14 pages had to be about something.
He didn`t support rape: "And I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen.”
All he is saying that creating life - despite the origin - is something that comes from God. It was God`s plan that despite what happened, still, a life should arise.
Maybe, just maybe, this child will be the best thing to happen to the mother even being born under such conditions.


That is possible, but then anything is.  What people don't like about the idea of every single abortion being illegal is that it makes rape that much worse because there's no part of this where the woman gets a choice.  Maybe that baby will change her life for the better, but that should be her decision, not something that the government forces on her in the worst time of her life.  Just seems logical on my end.  Yes it's unfortunate that a human life will never come to be, but rape shouldn't have that added possible punishment added onto it for the victim.  

But for anyone who sincerely holds to the belief that a fetus is a human, allowing abortion makes the rape all the more horrible, in that now there are two victims instead of one.


Oh I think a fetus is a human, not a thinking feeling one yet, but a human none the less.  And it's a shitty situation no doubt, and I'd prefer that the baby came to term, but I won't force it on someone at the lowest point in their life.  If some girl decides to have sex and screws up her birth control then that's on her, but a woman who was raped shouldn't be forced to keep a pregnancy from it.  


But why, if the fetus is indeed human, should the fetus be forced to have its life taken away?  To be sure, something aboslutely horrific has been done to the woman. but murder is just as bad, if not worse.

That at least would be the argument against abortion in this case.



Okami

To lavish praise upon this title, the assumption of a common plateau between player and game must be made.  I won't open my unworthy mouth.

Christian (+50).  Arminian(+20). AG adherent(+20). YEC(+20). Pre-tribulation Pre-milleniumist (+10).  Republican (+15) Capitalist (+15).  Pro-Nintendo (+5).  Misc. stances (+30).  TOTAL SCORE: 195
  http://quizfarm.com/test.php?q_id=43870 <---- Fun theology quiz
wfz on 25 October 2012
bluesinG said:
killerzX said:

so 30 seconds before the baby is born, it is a clump of cells, and can be terminated?

while its headed down the birthing-canal, it can have scissor like instruments, stab into its spinal cord, breaking its neck, killing the child, but its not human?

but if they were to do it just 5 seconds later, it would be murder of a human?

I believe that before it is born, it is a fetus. After it is born, it is a baby.

As for whether and when to abort a fetus, I believe that should be the mother's choice, not something mandated by the government.

What magically changes in those split seconds that makes the fetus have rights as a human baby? I don't see where your logic is coming from unless its based on nothing but pure convenience and feelings.