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Forums - Gaming - Which of the big three consoles manufactures put the most big name devs out of business this gen?

M.U.G.E.N on 21 October 2012

hahahhaha oh fucking wow man :D now I have heard everything



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killerzX on 21 October 2012
lilbroex said:
Kresnik said:
lilbroex said:

Indeed, expcially when you take into account that I was focusing specifically on Sony, which is why I asked when was Gear of War released for the PS3.

I remember specifically stating that "Sony" had the highest dev cost. I know that 360 cost was lower, but its still 2-3X high as the Wii on average.


Sure, the comparison between Gears & Uncharted is probably a good one for something like that.  But then there's the dev cost for something like Heavy Rain.  That throws a real spanner in the works when you consider it was only predicted to sell 200-300k copies.  Surely they'd have to prove their financials to someone and couldn't just blow a load of money on something with such low expectations?

Without any concrete figures though, we're just gonna go around in circles.  I guess for the time being Gears v Uncharted is the best proof.

Gears doesn't factor in. I never called the 360's dev costs into question. Though I wouldn't call GOW A+ as it was made with a game engine that allowed easy/cheaper developement.

When I say A+ exslusives, I'm talking games that were built from the ground up to take full advantage of the hardware.

I was off with Uncharted. I thought it was a bigger game given all the hype I remember. How much was Killzone 2?

at bolded: $40 million.

and thats a brand new, highly advanced engine, with lots of resources pured into the game, and 4+ years of development.

now Killzone 3, probably cost about half that (i dont have the numbers for this, im guessing), as it took half the time to develop, and used the engine had already been built.



curl-6 on 21 October 2012
killerzX said:
Kresnik said:
lilbroex said:

Indeed, expcially when you take into account that I was focusing specifically on Sony, which is why I asked when was Gear of War released for the PS3.

I remember specifically stating that "Sony" had the highest dev cost. I know that 360 cost was lower, but its still 2-3X high as the Wii on average.


Sure, the comparison between Gears & Uncharted is probably a good one for something like that.  But then there's the dev cost for something like Heavy Rain.  That throws a real spanner in the works when you consider it was only predicted to sell 200-300k copies.  Surely they'd have to prove their financials to someone and couldn't just blow a load of money on something with such low expectations?

Without any concrete figures though, we're just gonna go around in circles.  I guess for the time being Gears v Uncharted is the best proof.

yeah, could you believe quantic dream going to sony and saying, we want you to finance a $50+ million game, and we expect to sell around 200-300k copies.

Sony: i guess we wil have to charge $300 per copy if we want to make profit. 

 

in all likelyhood it probably cost under $4 million to make, based on projected sales, and them probably wanting to make money.

Sony has shown that they are willing to throw away large sums of money. ;)



lilbroex on 21 October 2012
killerzX said:
lilbroex said:
Kresnik said:
lilbroex said:

Indeed, expcially when you take into account that I was focusing specifically on Sony, which is why I asked when was Gear of War released for the PS3.

I remember specifically stating that "Sony" had the highest dev cost. I know that 360 cost was lower, but its still 2-3X high as the Wii on average.


Sure, the comparison between Gears & Uncharted is probably a good one for something like that.  But then there's the dev cost for something like Heavy Rain.  That throws a real spanner in the works when you consider it was only predicted to sell 200-300k copies.  Surely they'd have to prove their financials to someone and couldn't just blow a load of money on something with such low expectations?

Without any concrete figures though, we're just gonna go around in circles.  I guess for the time being Gears v Uncharted is the best proof.

Gears doesn't factor in. I never called the 360's dev costs into question. Though I wouldn't call GOW A+ as it was made with a game engine that allowed easy/cheaper developement.

When I say A+ exslusives, I'm talking games that were built from the ground up to take full advantage of the hardware.

I was off with Uncharted. I thought it was a bigger game given all the hype I remember. How much was Killzone 2?

at bolded: $40 million.

and thats a brand new, highly advanced engine, with lots of resources pured into the game, and 4+ years of development.

now Killzone 3, probably cost about half that (i dont have the numbers for this, im guessing), as it took half the time to develop, and used the engine had already been built.

So Killzone 2 fell into my estimations, and that is my point.The costs are just too high for those consoles for most companies.

Most devs couldn't afford to compete with the top name games on the system but still tried, leading to their deaths.



Jay520 on 21 October 2012
lilbroex said:
Jay520 said:
lilbroex said:
Jay520 said:
lilbroex said:


You are mistaken. The Wii had many big name devs and their games sold well for the most part.

Only two companies I think of went out of business developing for the NIntendo this gen. The company that made Trace Memory/Hotel Dusk and the company that made Cursed Moutain.

I can't remember the devs names, but I remember the big name games for the Wii.

Overlord Dark Legend, HOD Overkill, Madworld, The Last Story, Pandora's Tower, No More Heroes, Red Stel, Red Steel 2, Goldeneye, Arc Rise Fantasia(blegh), Umbrella Chronicles, Darkside Chronicles, Tatsunoku vs. Capcom, Shattered Memories,  Metroid Prime 3, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Other M, The Conduit(only the first one) Oboro Murasmasa, (there second better selling game ever even though they claimed that Nintendo cost them sells...) to name a few


Any of those games that exceeded 500k made a profit. Well, maybe expect RS2.


That doesn't negate my point at all. I never said the Wii didn't get many big name developers. The Wii did get some big name devs, but the number of big name Wii developers is infinitesimally low compared to the number of big name HD developers. By virtue of that fact alone, the chances of the Wii having more big name developers close is virtually impossible.


"There are so little Wii "big name" developers,"

You certainly had me fooled then. They had a lot. There were only a few big name developed who "didn't" make games for the Wii that weren't exsclusive devs and the Wii had its own around the same number of exslusive devs itself.


For the bolded, context is key.

As for the second part... Really? Are you saying that the Wii had close to the amount of big name developers as the HD consoles? if you truly believe that, then I have nothing more to say.

The have:

High Voltage Software,

Retro Stuidos,

Monolith Soft, 

the Fatal Frame dev(can't remember their name),

AlphaDream
Camelot Software Planning
Jupiter Corp.
Monster Games
Next Level Games
Paon
Skip Ltd.
Sora Ltd. - Returning
Noise
N-Space
Game Freak
Ambrella
Kuju Entertainment
Creatures Inc.
The Pokémon Company
Genius Sonority
Treasure

Thems just a few. Yup.



Even though what you're suggesting is absurd, i'll bite. I'm going to come back with a list of every developer on the HD consoles, that didn't go out of business, and that have made games that sold more than the games of those developers. The list should be about ten times larger than any Wii lost you can manage. It's going to be a while though, because there's so many of them.

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lilbroex on 21 October 2012
curl-6 said:
killerzX said:
Kresnik said:
lilbroex said:

Indeed, expcially when you take into account that I was focusing specifically on Sony, which is why I asked when was Gear of War released for the PS3.

I remember specifically stating that "Sony" had the highest dev cost. I know that 360 cost was lower, but its still 2-3X high as the Wii on average.


Sure, the comparison between Gears & Uncharted is probably a good one for something like that.  But then there's the dev cost for something like Heavy Rain.  That throws a real spanner in the works when you consider it was only predicted to sell 200-300k copies.  Surely they'd have to prove their financials to someone and couldn't just blow a load of money on something with such low expectations?

Without any concrete figures though, we're just gonna go around in circles.  I guess for the time being Gears v Uncharted is the best proof.

yeah, could you believe quantic dream going to sony and saying, we want you to finance a $50+ million game, and we expect to sell around 200-300k copies.

Sony: i guess we wil have to charge $300 per copy if we want to make profit. 

 

in all likelyhood it probably cost under $4 million to make, based on projected sales, and them probably wanting to make money.

Sony has shown that they are willing to throw away large sums of money. ;)


indeed, I forgot all about that.

I wonder how playstation Home and M.A.G. are doing these days.

Speaking of which, how much were the dev costs of M.A.G.? Now that I think about it, we haven't even covered what it costs to run servers for the games that have multiplayer.



lilbroex on 21 October 2012

http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2012/07/02/the-rise-of-costs-the-fall-of-gaming/



curl-6 on 21 October 2012
lilbroex said:
Jay520 said:
lilbroex said:
Jay520 said:
lilbroex said:


You are mistaken. The Wii had many big name devs and their games sold well for the most part.

Only two companies I think of went out of business developing for the NIntendo this gen. The company that made Trace Memory/Hotel Dusk and the company that made Cursed Moutain.

I can't remember the devs names, but I remember the big name games for the Wii.

Overlord Dark Legend, HOD Overkill, Madworld, The Last Story, Pandora's Tower, No More Heroes, Red Stel, Red Steel 2, Goldeneye, Arc Rise Fantasia(blegh), Umbrella Chronicles, Darkside Chronicles, Tatsunoku vs. Capcom, Shattered Memories,  Metroid Prime 3, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Other M, The Conduit(only the first one) Oboro Murasmasa, (there second better selling game ever even though they claimed that Nintendo cost them sells...) to name a few


Any of those games that exceeded 500k made a profit. Well, maybe expect RS2.


That doesn't negate my point at all. I never said the Wii didn't get many big name developers. The Wii did get some big name devs, but the number of big name Wii developers is infinitesimally low compared to the number of big name HD developers. By virtue of that fact alone, the chances of the Wii having more big name developers close is virtually impossible.


"There are so little Wii "big name" developers,"

You certainly had me fooled then. They had a lot. There were only a few big name developed who "didn't" make games for the Wii that weren't exsclusive devs and the Wii had its own around the same number of exslusive devs itself.


For the bolded, context is key.

As for the second part... Really? Are you saying that the Wii had close to the amount of big name developers as the HD consoles? if you truly believe that, then I have nothing more to say.

The have:

High Voltage Software,

Retro Stuidos,

Monolith Soft, 

the Fatal Frame dev(can't remember their name),

AlphaDream
Camelot Software Planning
Jupiter Corp.
Monster Games
Next Level Games
Paon
Skip Ltd.
Sora Ltd. - Returning
Noise
N-Space
Game Freak
Ambrella
Kuju Entertainment
Creatures Inc.
The Pokémon Company
Genius Sonority
Treasure

Thems just a few. Yup.

You left out Treyarch, Sonic Team, Capcom, Ubisoft, Mistwalker, Treasure, Junction Point, Next Level...



lilbroex on 21 October 2012
curl-6 said:
lilbroex said:
Jay520 said:
lilbroex said:
Jay520 said:
lilbroex said:


You are mistaken. The Wii had many big name devs and their games sold well for the most part.

Only two companies I think of went out of business developing for the NIntendo this gen. The company that made Trace Memory/Hotel Dusk and the company that made Cursed Moutain.

I can't remember the devs names, but I remember the big name games for the Wii.

Overlord Dark Legend, HOD Overkill, Madworld, The Last Story, Pandora's Tower, No More Heroes, Red Stel, Red Steel 2, Goldeneye, Arc Rise Fantasia(blegh), Umbrella Chronicles, Darkside Chronicles, Tatsunoku vs. Capcom, Shattered Memories,  Metroid Prime 3, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Other M, The Conduit(only the first one) Oboro Murasmasa, (there second better selling game ever even though they claimed that Nintendo cost them sells...) to name a few


Any of those games that exceeded 500k made a profit. Well, maybe expect RS2.


That doesn't negate my point at all. I never said the Wii didn't get many big name developers. The Wii did get some big name devs, but the number of big name Wii developers is infinitesimally low compared to the number of big name HD developers. By virtue of that fact alone, the chances of the Wii having more big name developers close is virtually impossible.


"There are so little Wii "big name" developers,"

You certainly had me fooled then. They had a lot. There were only a few big name developed who "didn't" make games for the Wii that weren't exsclusive devs and the Wii had its own around the same number of exslusive devs itself.


For the bolded, context is key.

As for the second part... Really? Are you saying that the Wii had close to the amount of big name developers as the HD consoles? if you truly believe that, then I have nothing more to say.

The have:

High Voltage Software,

Retro Stuidos,

Monolith Soft, 

the Fatal Frame dev(can't remember their name),

AlphaDream
Camelot Software Planning
Jupiter Corp.
Monster Games
Next Level Games
Paon
Skip Ltd.
Sora Ltd. - Returning
Noise
N-Space
Game Freak
Ambrella
Kuju Entertainment
Creatures Inc.
The Pokémon Company
Genius Sonority
Treasure

Thems just a few. Yup.

You left out Treyarch, Sonic Team, Capcom, Ubisoft, Mistwalker, Treasure, Junction Point, Next Level...

That's why I said "them's just a few". I could pull out more if need be.



killerzX on 21 October 2012
lilbroex said:
killerzX said:
lilbroex said:
Kresnik said:
lilbroex said:

Indeed, expcially when you take into account that I was focusing specifically on Sony, which is why I asked when was Gear of War released for the PS3.

I remember specifically stating that "Sony" had the highest dev cost. I know that 360 cost was lower, but its still 2-3X high as the Wii on average.


Sure, the comparison between Gears & Uncharted is probably a good one for something like that.  But then there's the dev cost for something like Heavy Rain.  That throws a real spanner in the works when you consider it was only predicted to sell 200-300k copies.  Surely they'd have to prove their financials to someone and couldn't just blow a load of money on something with such low expectations?

Without any concrete figures though, we're just gonna go around in circles.  I guess for the time being Gears v Uncharted is the best proof.

Gears doesn't factor in. I never called the 360's dev costs into question. Though I wouldn't call GOW A+ as it was made with a game engine that allowed easy/cheaper developement.

When I say A+ exslusives, I'm talking games that were built from the ground up to take full advantage of the hardware.

I was off with Uncharted. I thought it was a bigger game given all the hype I remember. How much was Killzone 2?

at bolded: $40 million.

and thats a brand new, highly advanced engine, with lots of resources pured into the game, and 4+ years of development.

now Killzone 3, probably cost about half that (i dont have the numbers for this, im guessing), as it took half the time to develop, and used the engine had already been built.

So Killzone 2 fell into my estimations, and that is my point.The costs are just too high for those consoles for most companies.

Most devs couldn't afford to compete with the top name games on the system but still tried, leading to their deaths.

no, you said A+ titles cost over $50 million to make. Killzone 2 cost over 10 million less than that. and it is one of the most expensive games ever made.

further more it was made early in the gen, when devs were still getting familiarized with the systems, and building new engines. dev costs have gone down now since they have a great familiarity with the systems, and have engines already made.

So no, even one of the most expensive games, with long development time, early in the gen, still proves you wrong. 

there have been like a handful of games that have cost of 50 million. GT5 and GTAIV being two of them.