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Forums - Gaming - Which of the big three consoles manufactures put the most big name devs out of business this gen?

lilbroex on 21 October 2012
Sal.Paradise said:

I'm sorry but that's absolute rubbish, there are only 5-10 videogames in existence that cost 50 million or above (or slightly below) to make and one of them is Shenmue on the dreamcast, one is APB a pc game, two of them are Two Human and Halo 3, 360 games. 

Find me a source that says Uncharted 2 or Heavy Rain cost anywhere near that much to make. (You can't) 

Lol, now I've read Kresnik's post he was spot on "Don't just accept by apology and move on, feel free to just start yet another argument." 

Now I'm taking the bait. Silly me. 

"Upwards of 50 million"

Meaning that it was reaching near that point, not that is was at that point. That is how I meant it anyway. That was an estimate, not document statement. It is what it is.

I didn't nothing like Kresniks presumption so how was he spot on?



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Kresnik on 21 October 2012
lilbroex said:
killerzX said:

the Naughty Dog said uncharted 1-2 cost $20 million to make. Gears of war 1 and 2 cost something like $10-$20 million to make.

Heavy rain, was a very small budget game, made by a very small studio, with not much of a track record. it was only expected to sell around 500k. so it probably cost less than $10 million to make.

GT4? do you mean GTA4 or GT5?. GTA IV cost like $100 million to make. incredible expensive, and it sold a ton, like 30 million plus lots of DLC.. GT5 cost $60 million to make also extremely expensive. but it has sold over 13 million (GT5+ GT5 prologue), and a couple million DLCs. so also very profitable.

Sources

I find it hard to believe that they said they both cost the same amount given how different they were in design and scale.

I didn't know Gears of War was made for the PS3.


Uncharted 2 $20 million - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/uncharted-sequel-costing-usd-20-million

Gears of War $10 million - http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/gears_of_war/news/gears_of_war_has_cost_10_million_to_produce.html

Heavy Rain was expected to sell 200-300k copies - http://www.edge-online.com/news/heavy-rain-clears-one-million-sales/

Grand Theft Auto 4 budget 'estimated' $100 million - http://www.shacknews.com/article/52464/gta-4s-production-budget-estimated

Gran Turismo 5 budget $60 million - http://uk.gamespot.com/news/gran-turismo-5-sporting-60-million-budget-6239328

Surprisingly, this guy was almost spot on with nearly all of his figures.



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miz1q2w3e on 21 October 2012
techhunter80 said:

Sony just to annoy fanboys but I only if the workers got other jobs just as good or better than the ones they would lose.

You misread the thread title?



lilbroex on 21 October 2012
Kresnik said:
lilbroex said:
killerzX said:

the Naughty Dog said uncharted 1-2 cost $20 million to make. Gears of war 1 and 2 cost something like $10-$20 million to make.

Heavy rain, was a very small budget game, made by a very small studio, with not much of a track record. it was only expected to sell around 500k. so it probably cost less than $10 million to make.

GT4? do you mean GTA4 or GT5?. GTA IV cost like $100 million to make. incredible expensive, and it sold a ton, like 30 million plus lots of DLC.. GT5 cost $60 million to make also extremely expensive. but it has sold over 13 million (GT5+ GT5 prologue), and a couple million DLCs. so also very profitable.

Sources

I find it hard to believe that they said they both cost the same amount given how different they were in design and scale.

I didn't know Gears of War was made for the PS3.


Uncharted 2 $20 million - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/uncharted-sequel-costing-usd-20-million

Gears of War $10 million - http://www.videogamer.com/xbox360/gears_of_war/news/gears_of_war_has_cost_10_million_to_produce.html

Heavy Rain was expected to sell 200-300k copies - http://www.edge-online.com/news/heavy-rain-clears-one-million-sales/

Grand Theft Auto 4 budget 'estimated' $100 million - http://www.shacknews.com/article/52464/gta-4s-production-budget-estimated

Gran Turismo 5 budget $60 million - http://uk.gamespot.com/news/gran-turismo-5-sporting-60-million-budget-6239328

Surprisingly, this guy was almost spot on with nearly all of his figures.

Indeed, expcially when you take into account that I was focusing specifically on Sony, which is why I asked when was Gear of War released for the PS3.

I remember specifically stating that "Sony" had the highest dev cost. I know that 360 cost was lower, but its still 2-3X high as the Wii on average.


The numbers I gave were in general were 15-30 million and for A+(huge big name games) it was near 50 million on the PS3. That was as opposed to the Wii which on average was 5-7 million and 10 for the biggest titles.



Sal.Paradise on 21 October 2012
lilbroex said:
Sal.Paradise said:
lilbroex said:
Kresnik said:
lilbroex said:

You are truncating the facts. I call foul. I said 150-300k for the average game.

Top quality developments(with the few there were) gnerally needed around 500k.


You didn't actually.  In fact, you said exactly the opposite.  Go check your post again.

 

"For a A+ quality games on the PS3, the developement costs are so high that a million seller isn't even enough to break even.

On the other hand, dev costs on the Wii were so low that even you only needed to 150-300k sells to make a profit."

 

Pretty sure that's a comparison of A+ quality games on PS3 to A+ quality games on Wii, since you didn't mention anywhere that you were talking about 'average' games on Wii.  And if you were, then why on earth would you make that comparison?  Why not compare like-for-like?  (i.e. average game on Wii to average game on PS3)

But that's okay.  Don't just accept by apology and move on, feel free to just start yet another argument.

You lost me. How did I say the oppostie?

A+ games on the PS3 cost upwards of 50 million(games like GT4, Uncharted 2, Heavy Rain)

I'm sorry but that's absolute rubbish, there are only 5-10 videogames in existence that cost 50 million or above (or slightly below) to make and one of them is Shenmue on the dreamcast, one is APB a pc game, two of them are Two Human and Halo 3, 360 games. 

Find me a source that says Uncharted 2 or Heavy Rain cost anywhere near that much to make. (You can't) 

Lol, now I've read Kresnik's post he was spot on "Don't just accept by apology and move on, feel free to just start yet another argument." 

Now I'm taking the bait. Silly me. 

"Upwards of 50 million"

Meaning that it was reaching near point, not that is was at that point. That is how I meant it anyway. Stop skewing statement and they would make more sense to you.

I knew you'd use the ambiguous wording to your advantage. I guess 'upwards of' can mean anything you want it to. 

Now, find me a source about the budget of two of the games you specified, Uncharted 2 and Heavy Rain.

....I'll save you the trouble, Uncharted 2 cost $20 million to make. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/uncharted-sequel-costing-usd-20-million

So if you did actually know what you were talking about, your 'upwards of 50 million' is referring to games that cost less than half of that to make.

I'm the one skewing statements...gotcha.



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Kresnik on 21 October 2012
lilbroex said:

Indeed, expcially when you take into account that I was focusing specifically on Sony, which is why I asked when was Gear of War released for the PS3.

I remember specifically stating that "Sony" had the highest dev cost. I know that 360 cost was lower, but its still 2-3X high as the Wii on average.


Sure, the comparison between Gears & Uncharted is probably a good one for something like that.  But then there's the dev cost for something like Heavy Rain.  That throws a real spanner in the works when you consider it was only predicted to sell 200-300k copies.  Surely they'd have to prove their financials to someone and couldn't just blow a load of money on something with such low expectations?

Without any concrete figures though, we're just gonna go around in circles.  I guess for the time being Gears v Uncharted is the best proof.



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lilbroex on 21 October 2012
Sal.Paradise said:

I knew you'd use the ambiguous wording to your advantage. I guess 'upwards of' can mean anything you want it to. 

Now, find me a source about the budget of two of the games you specified, Uncharted 2 and Heavy Rain.

....I'll save you the trouble, Uncharted 2 cost $20 million to make. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/uncharted-sequel-costing-usd-20-million

So if you did actually know what you were talking about, your 'upwards of 50 million' is referring to games that cost less than half of that to make.

I'm the one skewing statements...gotcha.

There is nothing ambiguous about it. If I meant it was absolutely 50 Million then that is what I would have said.

I overstimated what was done with the Uncharted. I though it was a bigger thanit is. That still falls into lines with the general cost I listed for PS3 games and the rest were accurate.

Nothing cost 20 million to make on the Wii.



lilbroex on 21 October 2012
Kresnik said:
lilbroex said:

Indeed, expcially when you take into account that I was focusing specifically on Sony, which is why I asked when was Gear of War released for the PS3.

I remember specifically stating that "Sony" had the highest dev cost. I know that 360 cost was lower, but its still 2-3X high as the Wii on average.


Sure, the comparison between Gears & Uncharted is probably a good one for something like that.  But then there's the dev cost for something like Heavy Rain.  That throws a real spanner in the works when you consider it was only predicted to sell 200-300k copies.  Surely they'd have to prove their financials to someone and couldn't just blow a load of money on something with such low expectations?

Without any concrete figures though, we're just gonna go around in circles.  I guess for the time being Gears v Uncharted is the best proof.

Gears doesn't factor in. I never called the 360's dev costs into question. Though I wouldn't call GOW A+ as it was made with a game engine that allowed easy/cheaper developement.

When I say A+ exslusives, I'm talking games that were built from the ground up to take full advantage of the hardware.

I was off with Uncharted. I thought it was a bigger game given all the hype I remember. How much was Killzone 2?



Sal.Paradise on 21 October 2012
lilbroex said:
Sal.Paradise said:

I knew you'd use the ambiguous wording to your advantage. I guess 'upwards of' can mean anything you want it to. 

Now, find me a source about the budget of two of the games you specified, Uncharted 2 and Heavy Rain.

....I'll save you the trouble, Uncharted 2 cost $20 million to make. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/uncharted-sequel-costing-usd-20-million

So if you did actually know what you were talking about, your 'upwards of 50 million' is referring to games that cost less than half of that to make.

I'm the one skewing statements...gotcha.

There is nothing ambiguous about it. If I meant it was absolutely 50 Million then that is what I would have said.

I overstimated what was done with the Uncharted. I though it was a bigger than than it is. That still falls into lines with the general cost I listed for PS3 games and the rest were accurate.

Nothing cost 20 million to make on the Wii.

It doesn't fall into line with the statement you were arguing at this time, which is upwards of 50 million. And as for Heavy Rain, I can't find any source for its development cost, we only know it sold far more than expected, so you were obviously bluffing with that one too. Good to know. 



Jay520 on 21 October 2012
lilbroex said:
killerzX said:
Jay520 said:
There hasn't been many big name developers that closed in the first place. Most developers that shut down were no name developers.


this.

there might be like 5 devs that shutdown, that actually produced quality games.


False. Hudson, Free Raidcal, Factor 5, THQ(A large amount of their susidiars), Tales Studio, Big Huge Games, Midway, Ignition, 3D Realms, Eidos(most of), Gamelab, Zipper Interactive and a bunch more.

Isn't taht comapny that exslusively made Starhawk for Sony going out of business now as well?



You're mentioning the studio that developed Starhawk, which only sold a few hundred-thousand units. That begs the question: Just what the Hell is a "big name" developer?