mysticwolf said: Nem said: Jay520 said: The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence that is all That is a tricky way of twisting the concept. Something you cant prove is therefore not proven. If its not proven, it is false until proven otherwise. God does not exist until someone can prove he does. Just like with everything else. Be it extra-terrestrial life, time travel, paralel universes, etc. God doesnt have the right to special treatment just cause religious people want him to exist. There is an important difference aswell, wich is that God makes no sense and has no logic, while time travel, extra terrestrial life, paralel universes, etc. are things that make mathemetical sense and can potencially exist. So you're saying that gravity didn't exist until it was discovered.

Gravity, what youre using as an example is something that exists, can be felt and can be proven. As a concept, it didnt exist until proven (the guy that got the appel in his head). You have no such evidances of God.

Nem said: Jay520 said: Nem said: Jay520 said: The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence that is all That is a tricky way of twisting the concept. Something you cant prove is therefore not proven. If its not proven, it is false until proven otherwise. God does not exist until someone can prove he does. Just like with everything else. Be is extra-terrestrial life, time travel, paralel universes, etc. God doesnt have the right to special treatment just cause religions people want to believe he exists. No...if something's not proven, then its just that - not proven. An entity's existence is not dependent upon our ability to to prove its existence.   You're assuming the entitiy exists. That isnt proven. If the existance is not proven, then theres nothing to make us believe it exists.

Fine, an entity's existence (or inexistence) is not dependent upon our ability to prove its existence. There were tons of concepts that we could not prove in the past. That doesn't mean those concepts were false. They simply weren't proven. What you're suggesting is that if we can't prove something, then its false. However, the moment we can prove that same thing, then it magically pops into existence. If that were true, then concepts and entities would pop into (and out of) existence constantly. Our reality would be constantly changing. That's not how reality works. Reality is independent to what we can and cannot prove.

Roma said: Jay520 said: Nem said: Jay520 said: The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence that is all That is a tricky way of twisting the concept. Something you cant prove is therefore not proven. If its not proven, it is false until proven otherwise. God does not exist until someone can prove he does. Just like with everything else. Be is extra-terrestrial life, time travel, paralel universes, etc. God doesnt have the right to special treatment just cause religions people want to believe he exists. No...if something's not proven, then its just that - not proven. An entity's (or concept's) existence is not dependent upon our ability to to prove its existence. Like! that's more open minded!

Its open minded when it leaves the door open to a big lie. I'm the only one telling you the truth the way it is here. You are acting like zombies when it comes to god. You have no proof, it has no logic, yet you want to believe it. I understand wanting, as i want to believe aswell. I just dont get fooled by lies. I want proof that he exists, otherwise theres absolutely no way he does.

Everything in the universe obeys mathematical laws. There is nothing that goes out of that. Everything makes sense and is born out of particle interaction in the fabric of space time. God is an abstract concept that just doesnt fit in it.

Do I need to consult a doctor in order to abort this thread? Wow, what an awful topic.

Jay520 said: Nem said: Jay520 said: Nem said: Jay520 said: The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence that is all That is a tricky way of twisting the concept. Something you cant prove is therefore not proven. If its not proven, it is false until proven otherwise. God does not exist until someone can prove he does. Just like with everything else. Be is extra-terrestrial life, time travel, paralel universes, etc. God doesnt have the right to special treatment just cause religions people want to believe he exists. No...if something's not proven, then its just that - not proven. An entity's existence is not dependent upon our ability to to prove its existence.   You're assuming the entitiy exists. That isnt proven. If the existance is not proven, then theres nothing to make us believe it exists. Fine, an entity's existence (or inexistence) is not dependent upon our ability to prove its existence. There were tons of concepts that we could not prove in the past. That doesn't mean those concepts were false. They simply weren't proven. What you're suggesting is that if we can't prove something, then its false. However, the moment we can prove that same thing, then it magically pops into existence. If that were true, then concepts and entities would pop into (and out of) existence constantly. Our reality would be constantly changing. That's not how reality works. Reality is independent to what we can and cannot prove.

Listen, you have to have logic in the chaos. you cant just assume everything exists without knowing about it. Yes, things that we dont know about may exist, but we cant prove they exist until we actually prove it. Until then it isnt true.

Its the same as people saying theres talking humanoid fish races in the milky way. That is a false statement until it can be proven true. Everything in science that cant be proven true is false. The absence of truth is a lie.

If you just assume everything may exist, even what doesnt make any sense, you end up with a very screwed up and unnacurate version of reality. You need to bring order to that. The simplistic way you put it ends up beeing somewhat close to the case, things dont just "pop out into existance"things "pop out into our knowledge". Until we can verify their existance, things dont exist.

How gay are we talking here? If my child was sucking dick in allies and doing drugs only to die in his twenties from aids then certainly abortion seems like a good option. However, if he lives a normal life with his husband and their condo in the city then no. If it is a girl unless she turns out to be a fat giant manish dyke their is no reason to abort her. Differences between genders certainly but I am just being honest.

Nem said: Listen, you have to have logic in the chaos. you cant just assume everything exists without knowing about it. Yes, things that we dont know about may exist, but we cant prove they exist until we actually prove it. Until then it isnt true. Its the same as people saying theres talking humanoid fish races in the milky way. That is a false statement until it can be proven true. Everything in science that cant be proven true is false. The absence of truth is a lie. If you just assume everything may exist, even what doesnt make any sense, you end up wit a very screwed up and unnacurate version of reality. You need to bring order to that.

You keep changing subjects. I didn't say anything about beliefs. I'm talking about whether something exists or whether it doesn't. If we cannot prove something, does that absolutely mean it doesn't exist? No.

There was a time when humans lacked the knowledge and technology to prove that other galaxies existed. Did that mean other galaxies didn't exist? No, it just meant we didn't have the evidence to prove them. Even though we could not prove other galaxies didn't exist, those galaxies still existed regardless of our proof. They didn't just start existing the moment we had proof. Same goes for everything else in the universe. They're going to exist (or not exist) regardless of what we can prove. Now, should we believe in those things? That's not what I'm talking about.

Nem said: Roma said: Nem said: Roma said: Nem said: Roma said: Nem said: Roma said: @Nem haha first of all how do you know we are the only creatures in this universe? I guess science has not found life (like us) outside planet earth so they don't exist according to your logic! god created the universe for us to see his mightiness! we are nothing compared to what other things exist out there and he wants you to feel his power! nothing can come out of nothing that's what science says so where did the particles come from? and then gathered to build this mas which then exploded which has been written in the Koran 1400 years ago btw. in it, it says the earth is round and it circles around the sun with a moon that circles the earth! science did not find out about how thing where until what 100-200 years ago (not sure maybe you know the answer to that)? now how could a man know this back then? how could he know how a baby developed inside the mothers womb. the seven stages of development are written in the Koran 1400 years ago. now if you think the books have been modified then go read the oldest Koran and then read the newest copy and see for yourself that it is still the same book. if you read the bible you ill see that they are different. read the copies printed in different years. here in Sweden we get the new testament every year. the reason we exist is simple. its like the reason we go to school to learn things in life to get better jobs and if you fail you will not be reworded for example. we where created to be tested that's why we have free will and if we do as god wants us to do then we get the reward he promised us and if we don't we burn in hell. just like you would get fired if you do not do your job we die because there is a life after death otherwise we would be immortal like we will be in the after life! why do people go in to war and fight to gain power? well these people are not religiuse or they use religiuse to start unnecessary wars. life is not heaven so of course these things will happen! i honestly don't get how people expect everything to be perfect and ask why god is letting this happen to us! its not about life but those who do not believe fear death because they do not know what will happen when they die. for me though I can't wait until I get to see what awaits me after death :) so who created god? well who created the creator of god? ok so who created the creator of the creator of god and so on. you have to have a beginning to it so if every creation has a creator how long do you think it will have gone until god created us? Not at all. There are things in the realm of possibility and logic. Paralel dimensions might be possible given the way black hole seem to bend the fabric of space time and pour like water in a sink. Life in other planets is definitly a possibility. The conditions that another earth exists are perfectly sensible. These are all things in the realm of the possible but unproven.   God is something completely different. We have seen no god, like we have seen different life form or as we have seen singularities. We have not seen any god or something that can be God, therefore the possibility it exists is quite slim. Actually, God is a creation of the human mind. If you watch the last episode of through the wormwhole with morgan freeman in the last season, you can understand why the human brain created the belief on an entity like god. In short its because your brain like to make connections. And what it cant connect, it makes up in a way to create some sense of it. That explain why in old times, people believed in more than one god, that doctrine has since been refined to believing in only one god that combines them all. I'm afraid to say that the concept itself is made up by humans. There is no such thing as a "God" in the universe. Unless of course, you refine the concept of God to something more palpable and believable... like for example the result of the war of matter against anti-matter that created the universe when matter won. That is the closest thing i can make of your God. And entitiy in the form of a human that lives in the skies/heaven... isnt it obvious who made this up? how do you explain how an uneducated shepherd knew these things that science are only now figuring out? you totally ignored that! god said he would preserve Farao and he is preserved with no mummification or any other form of preservation known to human kind! and lol Islam does not say he is a human living in the sky! he is not even in this universe and if he would show himself then everybody would be a believer thus there is no purpose for us to live anymore! you have the evidence but you do not want to connect the dots as its too big of a deal for you to handle that there is a god and that there is a hell which people will burn in if they do not follow his rules! and your telling me I have the answers in front of me and I chose to look away? haha the irony! I didnt really want to bother with those weak arguments but if you wanna go there, then so be it. 1. You have no idea to know who knew what in past times. 2. Dunno what you're talking about. Probably ignorance over secondary factors. 3. Awfully convenient. It could also say: Dont say this is a lie cause i dont want anyone to figure it out. 4. This is a personal attack it seems. So, let me tell you two important things about me. First, i WISH there was a God, yet it doesnt. Second, just cause im not religious doesnt mean im not a kind person. 5. Alright... how does any of that proves that god exists? Cause there is nothing in here that you can show me so you prove that god exists. how it proves that god exists? I just asked you how a person can know that at that time! the obvious answer is that he got the info through god! they did not have a Hubble telescope back then and they where not able to film the development of a human in the mothers womb! Really?! Thats the only possible explanation you can come up with? Dont you get the feeling you're skipping a few steps here? I cant really say anything about what you're saying specifically cause i'd have to have the exact quote and even so, there is no way to know who knew what back then, but i am sure that whatever is written in it is either just a smart ploy of words or its knowledge that wasnt yet widespread. You really have to realise that the moment someone knows something and the the moment it is officially recognised internationally isnt the same. It is unfortunate that you get so easily fooled, but i guess thats why the people that came up with the story came up with it. It was an easy way to make a living. its ok dude you can believe that something came out of nothing even though that's contradicting science! you can run around the truth all you want, that has also been written in the Koran but yeah these are predictions of course! Mohammad (pbuh) is the greatest predictor in the history of mankind even though he could not read or write! end of discussion! If you're not familiar with the concept of the creation of the universe, it really isnt my fault. I know how the universe was created, i actually said so already in one of my posts. I am not contradicting science in any way. The fact that you're brainwashed by the clever lies really isnt my concern aswell. I am guessing you would be shunned in your home country if you didnt, so you dont really have a choice most probably. Another nasty side effect of religion.

eh I live in Sweden and I also come from a free country where you can be religious or not that's really up to you but i guess science has limited your range of thinking. so if I am Muslim that means I only exist in countries with no free will! also I left Islam because I am gay but I went back because it makes more sense to me. I'd rather believe Gods scientific word than a mere humans words!

I know how everything started as I said its been written in the Koran 1400 years ago! dust that lead to big bang and so on even the continues expansion of the universe is there. you have all the info you need on the internet so look for it if you don't just want to ignore because you already have fixed mind on human science!

and yes my brean is washed and clean thank you! and I did it to myself!

Nem said: superchunk said: abhiram_33 said: nope, y would u even ask such a thing Because, if homosexuality is a sin and damnable by God, why would you willingly bring a person who will go to hell into this world? God doesnt exist, therefore there is no hell. Get over it.

Epic logic and argument right there^^. Im convinced !!! Damn, i wish you posted this before so i could have embraced your superb views and acquire your superior unquestionable intellect sooner.

Jay520 said: Nem said: Listen, you have to have logic in the chaos. you cant just assume everything exists without knowing about it. Yes, things that we dont know about may exist, but we cant prove they exist until we actually prove it. Until then it isnt true. Its the same as people saying theres talking humanoid fish races in the milky way. That is a false statement until it can be proven true. Everything in science that cant be proven true is false. The absence of truth is a lie. If you just assume everything may exist, even what doesnt make any sense, you end up wit a very screwed up and unnacurate version of reality. You need to bring order to that. You keep changing subjects. I didn't say anything about beliefs. I'm talking about whether something exists or whether it doesn't. If we cannot prove something, does that absolutely mean it doesn't exist? No. There was a time when humans lacked the knowledge and technology to prove that other galaxies existed. Did that mean other galaxies didn't exist? No, it just meant we didn't have the evidence to prove them. Even though we could not prove other galaxies didn't exist, those galaxies still existed regardless of our proof. They didn't just start existing the moment we had proof. Same goes for everything else in the universe. They're going to exist (or not exist) regardless of what we can prove. Now, should we believe in those things? That's not what I'm talking about.

I dont see how i was taling about beliefs, but ok.

I answered this already. If we cant verify the existance of something, it doesnt exist as something we know. Galaxies can be verified. Things that are in existance can be verified. God is an abstract concept, its impossible to verify. Is it that difficult to understand that God is just a fairy tale created by humans? Tell me really, is a dream something that could exist in reality (by that i mean the world imagined and not the electromagnetic impulses of your brain)? How do you verify its existance? Where do you draw the line Jay?