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Forums - Politics Discussion - How to Save the American Economy

McDonaldsGuy said:
NolSinkler said:
People who have never studied economics should not be allowed to debate economics. Kind of like how people who have never studied physics should not debate physics, and how people who have not studied calculus should not debate calculus. And so on.

So to most likely all of you, stop saying anything.


I've probably studied more economics than the Keynesian Obama has.

And most people won't get that reference, and end up thinking you are a birther.  Yes, it is sad, considering we are all supposed to be Keynesians now.



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America needs to pay its debts and start living by its means. Otherwise America will be the new Greece.



RedInker said:
America needs to pay its debts and start living by its means. Otherwise America will be the new Greece.

The talk of the Fiscal Cliff has to do this.  Moves that would end up pushing in that direction are saying they will have a net negative impact, as in budget cuts and forced raising of taxes.  Thing is that most of the world is living beyond its means at this time.  It has been built on debt, and the levels of growth aren't able to keep up with the debt.  The compounded effect of interest eventually does come do.  The issue seen is that, if you end up having people systemically living within their means, you will end up having entire industries vanish and that causes contraction to happen and it snowballs.  It needs to be done, but then you start to have things along the lines of the paradox of thrift.  I say it is valid, although I have strong disagreements with Keynesians who think aggregate demand is ALL that matters. 

The thing is also, while the debts get paid down, you have sluggish economics.  Also, keep in mind that, in a debt based currency economy, if all debts are paid, there is no longer any currency floating around in an economy.  Think about an economy without currency for a minute.



richardhutnik said:
RedInker said:
America needs to pay its debts and start living by its means. Otherwise America will be the new Greece.

The talk of the Fiscal Cliff has to do this.  Moves that would end up pushing in that direction are saying they will have a net negative impact, as in budget cuts and forced raising of taxes.  Thing is that most of the world is living beyond its means at this time.  It has been built on debt, and the levels of growth aren't able to keep up with the debt.  The compounded effect of interest eventually does come do.  The issue seen is that, if you end up having people systemically living within their means, you will end up having entire industries vanish and that causes contraction to happen and it snowballs.  It needs to be done, but then you start to have things along the lines of the paradox of thrift.  I say it is valid, although I have strong disagreements with Keynesians who think aggregate demand is ALL that matters. 

The thing is also, while the debts get paid down, you have sluggish economics.  Also, keep in mind that, in a debt based currency economy, if all debts are paid, there is no longer any currency floating around in an economy.  Think about an economy without currency for a minute.


That's why I think deregulation is key. If and when we ever have to live in our means, it will contract our economy. If markets and industries are deregulated, then the hope/goal would be that industries and businesses can invest in new sectors to mitigate the damages.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Michael-5 said:
the2real4mafol said:
Marks said:
Get rid of minimum wage, get rid of ridiculous regulations on businesses and get rid of corporate/business taxes...then you won't have to worry about "Made in China" because American products could once again compete worldwide like they could 50 years ago.

No stuff like regulations, taxes and minimum wages need to stay. Companies need to remain responsible for their actions. I mean would you work 15 hours for just $5, in filthy and dangerous (life threatening) conditions?. I doubt it. At $5 a day, you wouldn't be able to live in the USA (not now). Not only that, but there would be lots more polution, choking you! Finally, why shouldn't corporations pay any tax?, they produce for the nation, so they should pay a little bit of there earnings to maintain the nation. These corporations are greedy! that's why job's are leaving the USA for Asia

There needs to be some minimum standard to make sure that people who are easily talked into shit jobs, can have a decent lifestyle. There needs to be some minimum standard of life.

and cut corporate taxes? That won't help shit, that will just get the rich CEO's richer and reduce available funds for government. Hell this would severly increase debt, and make day to day life for people other the CEO's worse....much worse.

Also a lot of corporations still choose to keep their headquaters in USA. Yes corporations are greedy, that's why a lot of American citizens start their companies out in Canada (lower corporate tax) and then move to the USA once they grow a bit. China is a bigger market now, but USA is still wealthier, and until China surpasses USA, most corporations won't leave.

I agree with you, this is what the influence of money does. People like CEO's want taxes to be low enough that they don't exist! The richer people like that and their massive companies need to realise their actions affect real people and the environment around them, and they need to pay for the consequences, if anything arises. There job is to provide jobs, not just take jobs, wherever it's cheapest. China and India will only have jobs as long as they have cheap labour, they need to realise that, then the companies will just fuck off elsewhere, probably to Africa. Capitalism sucks like that



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018

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mrstickball said:
richardhutnik said:
RedInker said:
America needs to pay its debts and start living by its means. Otherwise America will be the new Greece.

The talk of the Fiscal Cliff has to do this.  Moves that would end up pushing in that direction are saying they will have a net negative impact, as in budget cuts and forced raising of taxes.  Thing is that most of the world is living beyond its means at this time.  It has been built on debt, and the levels of growth aren't able to keep up with the debt.  The compounded effect of interest eventually does come do.  The issue seen is that, if you end up having people systemically living within their means, you will end up having entire industries vanish and that causes contraction to happen and it snowballs.  It needs to be done, but then you start to have things along the lines of the paradox of thrift.  I say it is valid, although I have strong disagreements with Keynesians who think aggregate demand is ALL that matters. 

The thing is also, while the debts get paid down, you have sluggish economics.  Also, keep in mind that, in a debt based currency economy, if all debts are paid, there is no longer any currency floating around in an economy.  Think about an economy without currency for a minute.


That's why I think deregulation is key. If and when we ever have to live in our means, it will contract our economy. If markets and industries are deregulated, then the hope/goal would be that industries and businesses can invest in new sectors to mitigate the damages.

Deregulation as in simplifying the rules, or cutting enforcement of rules (or both)?  A problem seen now is one totally unregulated market (derivates) is currently a time bomb waiting to go off.  Saying deregulation alone isn't a miracle, when people can leverage and take down the entire economy, as they did.  This doesn't mean part of the solution couldn't be simplifying the rules.  Making it easier to get going helps.  But, unless people will take responsibility to proactively prevent issues, it doesn't happen.  In any given industry, there is always the push to increase risk taking, to get bigger pay outs, and people doing these have hubris to think that they won't fail.



spurgeonryan said:
How are we just going to "End" illegal immigration? We spent billions upon billions on the border and that has done nothing but cost more money and lives.

A big wall.



Kasz216 said:
spurgeonryan said:
How are we just going to "End" illegal immigration? We spent billions upon billions on the border and that has done nothing but cost more money and lives.

A big wall.

What like the Berlin wall, even that fell in the end



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018

spurgeonryan said:
Does that wall go 50 feet into the ground? Does any other country other than China and West Germany have a border wall that big? Do we really want something like that?


Oh and North and South Korea mine field wall.


I'm not sure how many countries have a border that big.

And why not?  It'd look pretty badass.

Also walls don't hurt people you know.

 

Every illegal alien who comes in to work a crappy job is preventing a legal alien from coming here, getting paid more for that crappy job and getting more rights/living a better life.



spurgeonryan said:
I agree. Maybe a wall would work. Just seems wrong to have to do that though.

Nah they should just dump all the shit America don't want on the border with Mexico, so mexicans think America is no better than Mexico, so they won't go to the states at all. LOL 



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018