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Forums - Gaming - Sony fighting to stay relevant?

Soundwave on 29 September 2012

Sony is still very relevant, just not dominant anymore. And honestly I don't think they will dominate again.

The reason the PSOne/PS2 were so dominant is because they had almost all the major third party games exclusive.

You put Final Fantasy 7, Resident Evil, and Metal Gear Solid on N64 and Saturn (for the sake of this arguement, lets assume Nintendo opted to go with a CD-ROM drive instead of the failed 64DD as a way to appease third parties) and the PSOne wouldn't have dominated nearly as much, in fact in this scenario, I think Nintendo probably wins that console cycle.

Every system that Sony has released where they haven't had the top third party content exclusive -- PSP, PS3 ... they have come nowhere close to finishing first. I don't see that changing any time soon either.

PSOne - PS2 era were a perfect storm in a lot of ways. They took advantage of Nintendo being dumb enough to alienate the entire third party community and Sega's floundering business.

Sony can't "win" first unless they have a ridiculously lop sided advantage in third party support like the PS1/2 had. They're a pitbull without teeth in that case.



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Dgc1808 on 29 September 2012
JayWood2010 said:
Dgc1808 said:
JayWood2010 said:
Dgc1808 said:
Going by total sales of all 3 systems, I'd say they're succeeding,


Total sales only tells so much.  When you sale your console at a loss you lose money and then rely on software.  Sony lost billions on the PS3.  Xbox lost a lot as well on the RROD, they have more income though due to XBL but all in all systems sold is pointless beyond a console war


Not talking about profit. Talking about relevance. If they're fightint to stay relevent, I'd say they're doing a decent job at it.

Without profits they will become irrelevent.  Do you understand if sony doesn't start turning a profit then there may be no more sony to turn in a profit with?

I think you're overestimating just how dire the situation is. They're not doing well right now but they've got resources and time to improve. Also, SCE aren't throwing away money like they were at the begining of the gen. 

And again, I'm not talking about profit. If they're fighting to stay relevant, they're succeeding at that. How things end up 3 years from now, I can't speak about but right now they've have managed to stay fairly relevant. 



4 ≈ One

S.T.A.G.E. on 29 September 2012
kowenicki said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
kowenicki said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Dgc1808 said:
JayWood2010 said:
Dgc1808 said:
Going by total sales of all 3 systems, I'd say they're succeeding,


Total sales only tells so much.  When you sale your console at a loss you lose money and then rely on software.  Sony lost billions on the PS3.  Xbox lost a lot as well on the RROD, they have more income though due to XBL but all in all systems sold is pointless beyond a console war


Not talking about profit. Talking about relevance. If they're fightint to stay relevent, I'd say they're doing a decent job at it.


Sonys sales in third should be considered graceful. They are selling more in third than the Xbox and Gamecube sold combined last gen against the PS2.

Which only goes to show how far they have fallen.

Less than a 1/3rd of market share this gen.  More than 2/3rds last gen.


lol...Sony expanded the market by leaps and bounds. Even the SNES never hit 60 million and it was in the lead. Sonys the reason the market took a 50 million+ console leap after the Sega vs Nintendo era which at best had 100 million console owners. Microsoft filled in Segas low gap in sales when Sony stretched their lead further, making the amount of owned consoles over 200 million+ people around the world. Sonys lowest was a number Nintendo or Microsoft could never hit without them. Competition is a great thing and Sony made their mistakes. Next gen, I assure you will be quite different. Nintendo stretched the casual userbase, while Sony and Microsoft increased the core market.

Not sure what past glories have to do with this gen, let alone next gen. 

In what way will next gen be "quite different". Enlighten the non-believers. 


Their past glory opened the door for themselves and Microsoft (essentially the same crowd split 130 M+ between them). If Sony doesnt make the same mistakes (as this gen with pricing, marketing and timing) they will have a healthier gen next time around. This is my point. Didnt Nintendo expanded the casual market by like 20-30% more than before? Seriously a lot of those gamers are going to be stepping up next gen. 



dahuman on 29 September 2012

Sony has a very bad hurdle to overcome, their innovations are not really that impressive, their gaming division is not making as much as they used to, their other electronic markets are being destroyed by the Chinese and Koreans. The relevance of Sony is certainly getting lower and lower, I don't even know how they are going to fight it without some miracles in their favor.

I just hope they don't go bankrupt cause I got the alpha pack for Planet Side 2 and I'd be pissed off if they fuck up their company so bad that they'd have to shut everything down since PS2 is fun as shit to play. Oh and I can't give less shit about the PS4(prolly not out for another 2-3 years) or the Vita ATM(recent TGS has convinced me that I'll never need a Vita for as long as I have my 3DS), I'm content with my PS3 and I'll have my hot ass black Wii U soon, so slick, so sexy, uhmmmmm~ numnumnum~



dahuman on 29 September 2012
S.T.A.G.E. said:
kowenicki said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
kowenicki said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Dgc1808 said:
JayWood2010 said:
Dgc1808 said:
Going by total sales of all 3 systems, I'd say they're succeeding,


Total sales only tells so much.  When you sale your console at a loss you lose money and then rely on software.  Sony lost billions on the PS3.  Xbox lost a lot as well on the RROD, they have more income though due to XBL but all in all systems sold is pointless beyond a console war


Not talking about profit. Talking about relevance. If they're fightint to stay relevent, I'd say they're doing a decent job at it.


Sonys sales in third should be considered graceful. They are selling more in third than the Xbox and Gamecube sold combined last gen against the PS2.

Which only goes to show how far they have fallen.

Less than a 1/3rd of market share this gen.  More than 2/3rds last gen.


lol...Sony expanded the market by leaps and bounds. Even the SNES never hit 60 million and it was in the lead. Sonys the reason the market took a 50 million+ console leap after the Sega vs Nintendo era which at best had 100 million console owners. Microsoft filled in Segas low gap in sales when Sony stretched their lead further, making the amount of owned consoles over 200 million+ people around the world. Sonys lowest was a number Nintendo or Microsoft could never hit without them. Competition is a great thing and Sony made their mistakes. Next gen, I assure you will be quite different. Nintendo stretched the casual userbase, while Sony and Microsoft increased the core market.

Not sure what past glories have to do with this gen, let alone next gen. 

In what way will next gen be "quite different". Enlighten the non-believers. 


Their past glory opened the door for themselves and Microsoft (essentially the same crowd split 130 M+ between them). If Sony doesnt make the same mistakes (as this gen with pricing, marketing and timing) they will have a healthier gen next time around. This is my point. Didnt Nintendo expanded the casual market by like 20-30% more than before? Seriously a lot of those gamers are going to be stepping up next gen. 


If the Wii U does well then they don't have to step up to anything, I really don't want to own 2-3 consoles again in the next generation of consoles, takes too much fucking space and takes away from my precious PC gaming time.



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S.T.A.G.E. on 29 September 2012
dahuman said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
kowenicki said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
kowenicki said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Dgc1808 said:
JayWood2010 said:
Dgc1808 said:
Going by total sales of all 3 systems, I'd say they're succeeding,


Total sales only tells so much.  When you sale your console at a loss you lose money and then rely on software.  Sony lost billions on the PS3.  Xbox lost a lot as well on the RROD, they have more income though due to XBL but all in all systems sold is pointless beyond a console war


Not talking about profit. Talking about relevance. If they're fightint to stay relevent, I'd say they're doing a decent job at it.


Sonys sales in third should be considered graceful. They are selling more in third than the Xbox and Gamecube sold combined last gen against the PS2.

Which only goes to show how far they have fallen.

Less than a 1/3rd of market share this gen.  More than 2/3rds last gen.


lol...Sony expanded the market by leaps and bounds. Even the SNES never hit 60 million and it was in the lead. Sonys the reason the market took a 50 million+ console leap after the Sega vs Nintendo era which at best had 100 million console owners. Microsoft filled in Segas low gap in sales when Sony stretched their lead further, making the amount of owned consoles over 200 million+ people around the world. Sonys lowest was a number Nintendo or Microsoft could never hit without them. Competition is a great thing and Sony made their mistakes. Next gen, I assure you will be quite different. Nintendo stretched the casual userbase, while Sony and Microsoft increased the core market.

Not sure what past glories have to do with this gen, let alone next gen. 

In what way will next gen be "quite different". Enlighten the non-believers. 


Their past glory opened the door for themselves and Microsoft (essentially the same crowd split 130 M+ between them). If Sony doesnt make the same mistakes (as this gen with pricing, marketing and timing) they will have a healthier gen next time around. This is my point. Didnt Nintendo expanded the casual market by like 20-30% more than before? Seriously a lot of those gamers are going to be stepping up next gen. 


If the Wii U does well then they don't have to step up to anything, I really don't want to own 2-3 consoles again in the next generation of consoles, takes too much fucking space and takes away from my precious PC gaming time.


The Wii U is aiming for a median between the core and casual audience. This is a total 180 from what the Wii was which was casually dominated in content. Nintendo is making a statement with the deals they are putting forth for Zombie U and Bayonetta. They want that smaller but more stable market that they missed out on completely with the Wii. The Wii U will not standing in the way of the next Xbox or Playstation, it will make its bed next to them and truthfully may the best company win. Ever since Sony has joined the gaming industry Nintendo always marched to the beat of its own drummer, but now they are coming back to the party. Lets hope they balance the casual and the core without dropping the ball. I will be getting a Wii U (but later)as well so lets hope their specs come up to snuff against the next Playstation and 360 or else the core market they are trying to build doesnt leave them because they are behind in the multiplat race. It will be all about exclusives and social networkinng next gen. Nintendos job is to hold onto the market, the problem is they depended on the casuals to get them there and now we know who they are running to. Lets see if they can hold onto those casuals and expand. I doubt they will, because casuals are a fickle bunch who are off with the wind at the drop of a new novelty.



Jay520 on 29 September 2012
HappySqurriel said:

1. It isn't whether the PS4 or XBox 720 will get third party support, it is the amount of exclusive third party support they will be able to secure that can cause the problems ...

2. Essentially, consider what would have happened if the Wii launched in 2004 and didn't face any negative consequences from launching so soon after the Gamecube. At the end of 2006, a year after the XBox 360 launched and soon after the PS3 launched, the Wii would be sitting at over 40 million units sold, the XBox 360 would have sold 8 million units, and the PS3 would have sold 2 million; to what extent do you think this would have impacted third party support from then on?

3. With that said, the mistakes of the PSP were that Sony focused to heavily on making a portable PS2 rather than a superior handheld and this resulted in a system that was too expensive and wasn't strong in traditional handheld games.


1. I thought we had already established long ago that no console would be recieving substancial 3rd party exclusives support next gen? 

2. Hard to comment on hypotheticals. But I would assume the PS2 would have still been very strong. The PS2 and the Wii would have shared developer support. The 360 would have probably started off slower since developers probably wouldn't have trusted it over the Wii. And I assume most PS2 developers would have transitioned to the PS3 so it would have had support.  In doing so, the PS3 developers would have probably made ports to the 360 since they were so similar. Essentially, it would be similar to reality, except the Wii would have died quicker, possible causing the PS360 to see their peaks in their 3rd or 4th years, instead of their 5th & 6th years. I can't say really. It's just a hypothetical

3. What about games like Gravity Daze, Escape Plan, Modnation Racers, Lumines, etc. Are those not suited for handhelds?



HappySqurriel on 29 September 2012
S.T.A.G.E. said:


The Wii U is aiming for a median between the core and casual audience. This is a total 180 from what the Wii was which was casually dominated in content. Nintendo is making a statement with the deals they are putting forth for Zombie U and Bayonetta. They want that smaller but more stable market that they missed out on completely with the Wii. The Wii U will not standing in the way of the next Xbox or Playstation, it will make its bed next to them and truthfully may the best company win. Ever since Sony has joined the gaming industry Nintendo always marched to the beat of its own drummer, but now they are coming back to the party. Lets hope they balance the casual and the core without dropping the ball. I will be getting a Wii U (but later)as well so lets hope their specs come up to snuff against the next Playstation and 360 or else the core market they are trying to build doesnt leave them because they are behind in the multiplat race. It will be all about exclusives and social networkinng next gen. Nintendos job is to hold onto the market, the problem is they depended on the casuals to get them there and now we know who they are running to. Lets see if they can hold onto those casuals and expand. I doubt they will, because casuals are a fickle bunch who are off with the wind at the drop of a new novelty.

A large portion of XBox 360 and PS3 owners this generation (possibly more than half) bought a Wii first. These gamers primarily bought their HD console because there weren't enough high quality games in certain genres to keep these gamers interested. By launching earlier, releasing a system which (may be) more powerful in relative terms, and making a more core-friendly but still accessable controller, Nintendo seems to be trying to prevent similar gamers from "jumping ship" mid generation with the Wii U ...

If Nintendo is successful with this strategy, and the next generation plays out roughly in a similar fashion as this generation, Sony and Microsoft could lose tens of millions of sales.



Jay520 on 29 September 2012
HappySqurriel said:

A large portion of XBox 360 and PS3 owners this generation (possibly more than half) bought a Wii first. 

How do you know this?



HappySqurriel on 29 September 2012
Jay520 said:
HappySqurriel said:

1. It isn't whether the PS4 or XBox 720 will get third party support, it is the amount of exclusive third party support they will be able to secure that can cause the problems ...

2. Essentially, consider what would have happened if the Wii launched in 2004 and didn't face any negative consequences from launching so soon after the Gamecube. At the end of 2006, a year after the XBox 360 launched and soon after the PS3 launched, the Wii would be sitting at over 40 million units sold, the XBox 360 would have sold 8 million units, and the PS3 would have sold 2 million; to what extent do you think this would have impacted third party support from then on?

3. With that said, the mistakes of the PSP were that Sony focused to heavily on making a portable PS2 rather than a superior handheld and this resulted in a system that was too expensive and wasn't strong in traditional handheld games.


1. I thought we had already established long ago that no console would be recieving substancial 3rd party exclusives support next gen? 

2. Hard to comment on hypotheticals. But I would assume the PS2 would have still been very strong. The PS2 and the Wii would have shared developer support. The 360 would have probably started off slower since developers probably wouldn't have trusted it over the Wii. And I assume most PS2 developers would have transitioned to the PS3 so it would have had support.  In doing so, the PS3 developers would have probably made ports to the 360 since they were so similar. Essentially, it would be similar to reality, except the Wii would have died quicker, possible causing the PS360 to see their peaks in their 3rd or 4th years, instead of their 5th & 6th years. I can't say really. It's just a hypothetical

3. What about games like Gravity Daze, Escape Plan, Modnation Racers, Lumines, etc. Are those not suited for handhelds?


1. I'm not talking about exclusives in a strict sense of the term ... If 1/3 of developers who worked on HD console only games are now focused on Wii U games, and another 1/3 include the Wii U in their multiplatform approach, the dynamics of each platforms library will change dramatically. Getting people to spend $400 to $600 for a platform is hard enough, but if you're in competition with a platform that is $300 (or less) and has a similar number of high quality games you're in trouble.

2. I don't see any reason to believe that the Wii would have "died earlier" had it launched earlier, when its strong sales would have meant that it had sold 60+ million units before the XBox 360 was $300 or the PS3 was $400; this would have (likely) resulted in substantially stronger third party support in 2008 and beyond.

3. A handful of games do not make a library