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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - How much more powerful do you think the Wii U is compared to PS3/Xbox360.

Sal.Paradise on 22 September 2012
HappySqurriel said:
Sal.Paradise said:
HappySqurriel said:
Sal.Paradise said:

Wait...if your argument is that Kameo was originally developed on the old Xbox architecture then ported..shouldn't that be an indicator that it does NOT look as good as it could have, as it started out on old hardware lacking modern features?

This is EXACTLY the response I see everyone give when people bring up Pikmin 3's lackluster visuals. It doesn't count! It started out on Wii! But now the opposite? Very strange. 

So if I subscribe to your logic..why doesn't Pikmin 3 look like a clear generational leap, as Kameo most definitely was? Hell, it doesn't even need to make the jump from SD to HD like Kameo did. It benefits from years of work and tools used in HD development that were not available at the start of this generation. Kameo didn't. So? 

18 to 24 months to improve visuals of a nearly completed game will typically result in a better looking game than 12 to 18 months to develop a game from scratch from the ground up ...

Can I have sources on both of these specific development details for Pikmin 3 and Kameo please? Or are you guessing? Again, I could swear people told me Pikmin 3 is just an HD-ified Wii game, hence its poor visuals, but you're saying it's being built for Wii U from the ground up.


I know nothing about the development history of Pikmin 3 ...

But looking at the visuals, it is difficult to believe that it is lacking processing power to achieve its graphical goals. Everything is highly detailed, with multiple effects that give everything an appearance as near photo-realistic as we have seen, with advanced effects like a depth of field blur effect.

Can you give me sources on Kameo and Pikmins 3s development please? 

Remember, when I said: ..why doesn't Pikmin 3 look like a clear generational leap, as Kameo most definitely was? Hell, it doesn't even need to make the jump from SD to HD like Kameo did. It benefits from years of work and tools used in HD development that were not available at the start of this generation. Kameo didn't. So? 

You said:18 to 24 months to improve visuals of a nearly completed game will typically result in a better looking game than 12 to 18 months to develop a game from scratch from the ground up ...

Are you telling me you have sources on neither of these?

And don't even try to now argue that Pikmin 3 shows a generational leap anywhere near the size of leap that Kameo showed, because you don't have sources. It won't go well for you



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phenom08 on 22 September 2012
Sal.Paradise said:
phenom08 said:

You posted a photo of Kameo and posted a photo of a Xbox game previously didn't you? What Xbox game was that?

Kameo! it llustrated the massive jump in quality at launch, but with the benefit of having the same character designs/ art style so people couldn't bitch about them being different or Kameo not counting because it was cartoony/oversaturated (an argument I've seen posted before to wriggle out of those comparisons.) 

I thought it wasn't released on the Xbox? Is that what Kameo was suppose to be on the Xbox until it switched to 360?



F0X on 22 September 2012
Sal.Paradise said:
HappySqurriel said:
Sal.Paradise said:

Wait...if your argument is that Kameo was originally developed on the old Xbox architecture then ported..shouldn't that be an indicator that it does NOT look as good as it could have, as it started out on old hardware lacking modern features?

This is EXACTLY the response I see everyone give when people bring up Pikmin 3's lackluster visuals. It doesn't count! It started out on Wii! But now the opposite? Very strange. 

So if I subscribe to your logic..why doesn't Pikmin 3 look like a clear generational leap, as Kameo most definitely was? Hell, it doesn't even need to make the jump from SD to HD like Kameo did. It benefits from years of work and tools used in HD development that were not available at the start of this generation. Kameo didn't. So? 

18 to 24 months to improve visuals of a nearly completed game will typically result in a better looking game than 12 to 18 months to develop a game from scratch from the ground up ...

Can I have sources on both of these specific development details for Pikmin 3 and Kameo please? Or are you guessing? Again, I could swear people told me Pikmin 3 is just an HD-ified Wii game, hence its poor visuals, but you're saying it's being built for Wii U from the ground up.

It's a clear genrational leap... from the Wii. Or are you really meaning a two-generational leap, going beyond 360/PS3? Such a feat is usually reserved for Duke Nukem, so that's not necessarily a reasonable expectation if we are to assume that Nintendo is remotely smart.

In all likelihood, Pikmin 3 did not begin full development until 2010 (it started pre-production in 2008) and by that time Nintendo may have already decided to move the project to Wii U. That would explain why Nintendo kept quiet about it for so long, and why we haven't seen any Wii version screenshots, unlike Kameo on Xbox.

Moreover, Pikmin 3 is a very nice-looking game. Have you seen any of the screenshots recently? "Poor visuals" my ass.



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ethomaz on 22 September 2012

1.5x



Sal.Paradise on 22 September 2012
phenom08 said:

I thought it wasn't released on the Xbox? Is that what Kameo was suppose to be on the Xbox until it switched to 360?

Yeh that's correct. In fact if I remember they originally planned it to be a GC game, but of course they got snatched up by Msoft and that was that. They were developing for the original xbox but it had several delays and didn't release, and they eventually decided to switch to 360 where it was a launch title. 



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phenom08 on 22 September 2012
Sal.Paradise said:
HappySqurriel said:
Sal.Paradise said:
HappySqurriel said:
Sal.Paradise said:

Wait...if your argument is that Kameo was originally developed on the old Xbox architecture then ported..shouldn't that be an indicator that it does NOT look as good as it could have, as it started out on old hardware lacking modern features?

This is EXACTLY the response I see everyone give when people bring up Pikmin 3's lackluster visuals. It doesn't count! It started out on Wii! But now the opposite? Very strange. 

So if I subscribe to your logic..why doesn't Pikmin 3 look like a clear generational leap, as Kameo most definitely was? Hell, it doesn't even need to make the jump from SD to HD like Kameo did. It benefits from years of work and tools used in HD development that were not available at the start of this generation. Kameo didn't. So? 

18 to 24 months to improve visuals of a nearly completed game will typically result in a better looking game than 12 to 18 months to develop a game from scratch from the ground up ...

Can I have sources on both of these specific development details for Pikmin 3 and Kameo please? Or are you guessing? Again, I could swear people told me Pikmin 3 is just an HD-ified Wii game, hence its poor visuals, but you're saying it's being built for Wii U from the ground up.


I know nothing about the development history of Pikmin 3 ...

But looking at the visuals, it is difficult to believe that it is lacking processing power to achieve its graphical goals. Everything is highly detailed, with multiple effects that give everything an appearance as near photo-realistic as we have seen, with advanced effects like a depth of field blur effect.

Can you give me sources on Kameo and Pikmins 3s development please? 

Remember, when I said: ..why doesn't Pikmin 3 look like a clear generational leap, as Kameo most definitely was? Hell, it doesn't even need to make the jump from SD to HD like Kameo did. It benefits from years of work and tools used in HD development that were not available at the start of this generation. Kameo didn't. So? 

You said:18 to 24 months to improve visuals of a nearly completed game will typically result in a better looking game than 12 to 18 months to develop a game from scratch from the ground up ...

Are you telling me you have sources on neither of these?

And don't even try to now argue that Pikmin 3 shows a generational leap anywhere near the size of leap that Kameo showed, because you don't have sources. It won't go well for you

Because Kameo is being compared to a unreleased Xbox game while Pikmin 3 is being compared to late gen Xbox 360 games. What a fair comparison that is lol.



Sal.Paradise on 22 September 2012
F0X said:

It's a clear genrational leap... from the Wii. Or are you really meaning a two-generational leap, going beyond 360/PS3? Such a feat is usually reserved for Duke Nukem, so that's not necessarily a reasonable expectation if we are to assume that Nintendo is remotely smart.

In all likelihood, Pikmin 3 did not begin full development until 2010 (it started pre-production in 2008) and by that time Nintendo may have already decided to move the project to Wii U. That would explain why Nintendo kept quiet about it for so long, and why we haven't seen any Wii version screenshots, unlike Kameo on Xbox.

Moreover, Pikmin 3 is a very nice-looking game. Have you seen any of the screenshots recently? "Poor visuals" my ass.

It certainly is a leap from the Wii, but we're talking about a leap from PS360 here. Different things. The rest of your post is speculation  



Sal.Paradise on 22 September 2012
phenom08 said:
Because Kameo is being compared to a unreleased Xbox game while Pikmin 3 is being compared to late gen Xbox 360 games. What a fair comparison that is lol.

 

What? No, I told happysquirrel I would have to post the Kameo pictures in here to show how GOOD the 360 launch game, Kameo, looked, as he was using a picture of a shoddy looking 360 launch title in an attempt to paint the rest of the launch titles as looking that shoddy. 



Soundwave on 22 September 2012

I would be happy with a PSOne -- N64 (minus the CD-ROM disparity) or PS2 -- XBox jump.

To me that's a fairly sizable jump, games like Wave Race 64 and Rogue Squadron and Conker's Bad Fur Day on N64 were definitely noticably beyond what was on the PSOne. And DOOM 3, Halo 2, Riddick, were definitely beyond stuff on the PS2.

PS3/360 are third-gen 3D machines, so I think we're getting to the point today where yes you can always get better, but a a base, you can still make a very eye pleasing game even just that tech. I.E.: The Last Of Us, Witcher 2, etc. still look quite good on these machines.



phenom08 on 22 September 2012
Sal.Paradise said:
phenom08 said:

I thought it wasn't released on the Xbox? Is that what Kameo was suppose to be on the Xbox until it switched to 360?

Yeh that's correct. In fact if I remember they originally planned it to be a GC game, but of course they got snatched up by Msoft and that was that. They were developing for the original xbox but it had several delays and didn't release, and they eventually decided to switch to 360 where it was a launch title. 

Thanks for making your argument completely invalid then. You are comparing a unreleased Xbox game(Kameo for Xbox) to a fully released and upgraded Xbox 360 game(Kameo for 360). You are clearly cherry picking to prove the Xbox to 360 was a obvious generational leap. You are also forgetting the leap between the two was very large, and the improvement in resolution. The WiiU has none of those advantages so why would the launch games look signicantly better than late gen 360 games? On top of all of that those games were made for 360 and ported to WiiU.