By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - AMD Sea Islands aka 8000 series GPUs will be featured in next generation consoles

darkknightkryta on 21 September 2012
Andrespetmonkey said:
Crono141 said:
You're right about the 360, though it was based on the same architecture as the x1800, not 1900xt.  The RSX is a scaled down 7600.  Also came out in 2006.

I stand corrected.  I still don't think they'll go about this generation in the same strategy though.  No one wants another 500-600 dollar home console on their hands, that only just now in their dying throes have reached a mass market price.

The PS3 was expensive not because it used a GPU from 2006, but because it used a blu-ray drive and CELL processor. If the PS3 used a similar CPU to the 360 and DVD drive it would of been just as powerful and $200 cheaper. I actually don't even need to speculate here, just look at the Xbox 360. If anything it's only marginally less powerful than the PS3, but it launched at $300-400 a year earlier.

Cell's loss was in R & D, the chip itself was pretty cheap and didn't really drive up the cost of the PS3.  The RSX was actually about 40 dollars more expensive than Cell.



Around the Network
crissindahouse on 21 September 2012
Crono141 said:
crissindahouse said:
Crono141 said:
Andrespetmonkey said:
 

The PS3 was expensive not because it used a GPU from 2006, but because it used a blu-ray drive and CELL processor. If the PS3 used a similar CPU to the 360 and DVD drive it would of been just as powerful and $200 cheaper. I actually don't even need to speculate here, just look at the Xbox 360. If anything it's only marginally less powerful than the PS3, but it launched at $300-400 a year earlier.

Yes, but both consoles took heavy losses at their respective launch price.  While Microsoft can do this again, Sony just doesn't have the financials this time around to absorb that much loss per console.  Sony is looking to make the Game division profitable to help save the company.  Yes, it is that bad.  The only way Sony is putting these chips in their console is if its a 500 dollar launch with a very small loss or breaking even.

 

EDIT: If they do put these chips in and launch at 400 dollars with a 100 dollar loss, it will be the last generation Sony participates in.

if they would sell the console with $100 loss first, they could sell it without loss not so much later and with all the royalties/psn+ and everything else i think it could be a profitable gen for sony. what did they lose with ps3 first? $300 or something? now imagine $200 loss less per console for the first millions of consoles. with $100 loss first they could sell the console for a profit after a while which they couldn't so fast with ps3 and i think those profitable sales would bring back the losses of the first sales and the console alone would be at least lossless when we would get a ps5 (who know if we will even get that with all the streaming stuff and so on in 2020 or so)

sure we have no clue how much consoles sony will sell next gen and yeah, in reality we know almost nothing but i don't believe $100 loss would be as bad as you might think.

a 100 dollar loss on 10 million consoles is 1 billion dollars.  With a B.  How much is a PS plus subscription?  50 bucks a year.  So lets say half of the 10 million get PS+ (which I think is a generous number), thats 250 million dollars.  So we're still in the hole by 750 million dollars.  Lets say each console gets 2 games at say 10 dollars profit (from licensing) each in the first year (on average), thats another 200 million dollars.  So you're still in the hole in the first year by 550 million dollars.  How much cash does Sony have?  They are rated at a 14 billion dollar market cap, with already 6.4 billion in losses per year (as of April).  If my estimates above are true, and all else is equal, then Sony as a corporation will be bankrupt in 2 more years.

Given the above, they have to sell PS4 at cost or at a slight profit.  Look for a 500+ dollar console, or a console on par with WiiU.

hmm ok so you think with all these losses the 500million for ps4 would be the reason to kill sony even if this would be only a "small" part of it then?

and your calculation says nothing, you count almost nothing you have to in both directions, if it is advertisement, sales of own games (and if these will be profitable) or stuff like movies/music/psn games. so saying all of this is equal is maybe way off, if it's way worse or much better for sony is another question^^

and btw when they release the ps4 they will still sell ps3 and those probably for a profit then which will help.



Crono141 on 21 September 2012
crissindahouse said:
Crono141 said:
crissindahouse said:
Crono141 said:
Andrespetmonkey said:
 

The PS3 was expensive not because it used a GPU from 2006, but because it used a blu-ray drive and CELL processor. If the PS3 used a similar CPU to the 360 and DVD drive it would of been just as powerful and $200 cheaper. I actually don't even need to speculate here, just look at the Xbox 360. If anything it's only marginally less powerful than the PS3, but it launched at $300-400 a year earlier.

Yes, but both consoles took heavy losses at their respective launch price.  While Microsoft can do this again, Sony just doesn't have the financials this time around to absorb that much loss per console.  Sony is looking to make the Game division profitable to help save the company.  Yes, it is that bad.  The only way Sony is putting these chips in their console is if its a 500 dollar launch with a very small loss or breaking even.

 

EDIT: If they do put these chips in and launch at 400 dollars with a 100 dollar loss, it will be the last generation Sony participates in.

if they would sell the console with $100 loss first, they could sell it without loss not so much later and with all the royalties/psn+ and everything else i think it could be a profitable gen for sony. what did they lose with ps3 first? $300 or something? now imagine $200 loss less per console for the first millions of consoles. with $100 loss first they could sell the console for a profit after a while which they couldn't so fast with ps3 and i think those profitable sales would bring back the losses of the first sales and the console alone would be at least lossless when we would get a ps5 (who know if we will even get that with all the streaming stuff and so on in 2020 or so)

sure we have no clue how much consoles sony will sell next gen and yeah, in reality we know almost nothing but i don't believe $100 loss would be as bad as you might think.

a 100 dollar loss on 10 million consoles is 1 billion dollars.  With a B.  How much is a PS plus subscription?  50 bucks a year.  So lets say half of the 10 million get PS+ (which I think is a generous number), thats 250 million dollars.  So we're still in the hole by 750 million dollars.  Lets say each console gets 2 games at say 10 dollars profit (from licensing) each in the first year (on average), thats another 200 million dollars.  So you're still in the hole in the first year by 550 million dollars.  How much cash does Sony have?  They are rated at a 14 billion dollar market cap, with already 6.4 billion in losses per year (as of April).  If my estimates above are true, and all else is equal, then Sony as a corporation will be bankrupt in 2 more years.

Given the above, they have to sell PS4 at cost or at a slight profit.  Look for a 500+ dollar console, or a console on par with WiiU.

hmm ok so you think with all these losses the 500million for ps4 would be the reason to kill sony even if this would be only a "small" part of it then?

and your calculation says nothing, you count almost nothing you have to in both directions, if it is advertisement, sales of own games or stuff like movies/music/psn games. so saying all of this is equal is maybe way off, if now off because it's way worse or much better for sony^^

and btw when they release the ps4 they will still sell ps3 and those probably for a profit then which will help.

Yes, with my all things are equal caveat, because there's a lot more that goes into that situation than I've accounted for.

And truth be told, it wouldn't be the 500 million PS4 losses that kills sony.  It'l be the other 6.5 billion in losses from their other sectors.  Until I did the research for that post, I honestly didn't realize how dire Sony's situation was.  Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the relationship between Market Cap and profits (or losses), but Sony as a company has to return to profitability in the next 2 years or there will be no more Sony, period.  Coupled with the latest news that Kaz is hoping to use the playstation division to help return the whole company to profitability, then Sony has no choice but to sell a mass market priced console that breaks even, or delay their next console for several years and focus on the PS3 and Vita as a source for profitability.

Now that I think about it, that move makes the most financial sense, since PS3 manufacturing is going well now, and the new slim models just announced are likely sold for a slight profit at 279 and 299 each.

So Sony's PS4 may indeed have a Sea Island chipset in it.  But you won't see it until late 2014 or 2015.



Check out my Youtube Let's Play channel here.

HappySqurriel on 21 September 2012
fillet said:

You guys are very ignorant.

Of course the next gen GPUs will be based on the next gen GPU makers technology.

It doesn't mean you will get those specs by any means at all - quite the opposite.

Top end GPUs for the PC now cost around £400+ at release back when the 360 and PS3 were out the top end were £300 and even then the 360 and PS3 didn't get the top end version of those GPUs specs.

You will not be getting £400 GPU in your next gen console. You will be getting a cut down version of a £400 GPU instead.

Good fucking luck if you think next gen consoles will have the specs listed here, or even close.

 

I mean FFS you do realise that of the current nvidia lineup for example and ATIAMD for that matter, they have a whole line of products ALL BASED ON THE CURRENT MANUFACTURING PROCESS.

Absolute morons, seriously.

 

Take for example, there's top end cards from 2-3 generations ago that outperform the lowest end products on the current lineup BASED ON CURRENT MANUFACTURING PROCESS.

Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!


I have seen many comments (including mine) that basically say this without being so abrasive ...

While I'm not suggesting that this is what Nintendo did, I really wouldn't be that surprised if the final leaked specs of the Wii U had the same GPU as (something like) the Radeon HD7770 but they underclocked it to (something like) 750MHz. While the system wouldn't be (significantly) different in terms of processing power compared to the current rumoured specs, they would beneft by having some of the latest features/technology in their GPU.

Why I mention this is because something similar could be done for either the PS4 or XBox 720 ... While they could be using the latest and greatest GPU technology in their next system they could easily choose one of the bottom GPUs from that line.



haxxiy on 21 September 2012

Can't see why they would do that since the manufacturing process is the same. Sea Islands is basically Northern Islands on steroids, bigger and hungrier. It'd be better to stick with the already existing, optimized architecture.

PS4 and X720 will probably come up with something on the 1.5-2 TFLOPS range and about 100-120W TDP. That's quite a leap already over current and a certain upcoming hardware. But of course, no 8000 series.



 

 

 

 

 

Around the Network
jlrx on 21 September 2012
usrevenge said:
wfz said:
BenVTrigger said:
And people have been trying to argue that Nextbox and PS4 wont be considerably more powerful.

Ive been saying it all along and I hold to it. Next gen systems will be extremly powerfuk


I don't want the new systems to be extreme power fucks. :(

 

That aside, I'm part of the PC gaming fail race so I don't care what pitiful "high tech" parts you lowly console peasants think you'll be getting in your next generation of consoles!


PC is far from the master race of gaming, they are sorta like England during the American revolution, dead super power.

Sounds like jealously, no current console can ever keep up with the ever increasing might of PC Power, even my favorite Nintendo could not, which is why I love them for knowing its about games first.



sergiodaly on 21 September 2012

i think i am alone here... but i hope Sony launch another 600$ console... no loss on each console sold, this time... make a 500-550$ manufacturer cost... 50-100$ for shipping, sony profit, retailers profit... it will not get them lots of money in the early years but will be power enough to be a 5-7 years home console with no major bottleneck...

Proudest Platinums - BF: Bad Company, Killzone 2 , Battlefield 3 and GTA4

poroporo on 21 September 2012

Can't stress this enough: Lower power consumption ftwwwwww.

Your console will have a longer life and make less noise... and there's also the slightly less disastrous electrical bill.

Win!



JEMC on 21 September 2012
haxxiy said:
Can't see why they would do that since the manufacturing process is the same. Sea Islands is basically Northern Islands on steroids, bigger and hungrier. It'd be better to stick with the already existing, optimized architecture.

PS4 and X720 will probably come up with something on the 1.5-2 TFLOPS range and about 100-120W TDP. That's quite a leap already over current and a certain upcoming hardware. But of course, no 8000 series.

Actually Sea Islands are the optimized version of Nothern Islands.

That's the reason that allows AMD to put more transistors and make them run at a higher frequency aand at the same time keeping the same power consumption (8850) or even reducing it (8870).



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

haxxiy on 21 September 2012
JEMC said:

Actually Sea Islands are the optimized version of Nothern Islands.

That's the reason that allows AMD to put more transistors and make them run at a higher frequency aand at the same time keeping the same power consumption (8850) or even reducing it (8870).

I'm not sure. It probably still have a way to go on driver updates to be as good, pound per pound, as Northern Islands. Besides, there's a good chance yields are lower with so much transistors packed in. Of course, one year from now things are likely going to be very different. But I don't know, better to wait and see.