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Forums - Nintendo - New developers will do the best on Nintendo hardware

zarx on 12 September 2012
Metallicube said:

You raise a good point about development being far cheaper on the Wii, and that's an important point that that many people seem to forget. Remember, if you don't spend as much on development, you don't need as many sales to be successful. HD games on the other hand, many developers came public with the fact that they needed to break well into over a million to even make a return on their investment. While third party games on Wii may not have those frontloaded sales that the HD consoles enjoyed, many of them still sold respectively over time on Nintendo's console, especially when you consider the development costs were much lower.


We are talking about first time indie devs tho, making a game like Braid wouldn't be any cheaper to make on Wii than it was on X360. There are hundreds of indie games made with small to no real budget on XBLA and PSN, let alone on PC. A AAA game may be cheaper to make on Nintendo platforms due to the tech ceiling being lower but that is not what the thread is about. First time indie devs don't make AAA retail games in this day and age.



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sethnintendo on 12 September 2012
zarx said:
sethnintendo said:
Soundwave said:

 

I'm not asking for anyone to list 50 new devs born on the Wii/DS ... name one or two big time success stories of indie devs on Wii/DS/3DS.

Mutant Mudds - Renegade Kid (developer made it for 3DSWare first and now putting it on Steam, will give 3DS owners the 20 extra levels that are going to the PC version and said they are going to use the PC revenue to fuel more 3DS / WiiU games)

http://gimmegimmegames.com/2012/09/renegade-kid-using-steam-version-of-mutant-mudds-to-fund-new-3dswii-u-games-will-not-leave-nintendo-behind-to-make-pc-games/

Cave Story and VVVVVV - Nicalis

Renegade Kid started out making published titles tho, and is made up of industr vets. Also the fact that they need money from the PC releases to fund development of their Nintendo titles isn't really a great success story for Nintendo. And Cave Story and VVVVVV started out on PC and were just ported by Nicalis.

Nnooo and Gaijin Games would be better examples of Nintendo indie success stories IMO.


Ah I didn't look into Cave Story and VVVVVV that much but I knew they were on Steam.  I just thought they did pretty good on DSiWare, WiiWare (Cave Story) which led to the failed release of Cave Story 3D (released around same time Super Mario 3D Land which probably didn't help, probably should have just been a 3DSWare title).  I should have looked further into it but it says on wiki that Nicalis did work with Amaya on Cave Story for the WiiWare to add a few new things into it (at least not an exact port).  I suppose your examples would probably be better. 

Renegade Kid porting Mutant Mudds over to Steam shouldn't be looked too negatively on Nintendo.  It is only a given that a developer would port their game to as many markets as possible (if it is a good game).  I was more encourage by the link that the developer seems to like what is happening with their games on Nintendo's market by stating they won't lose any focus on developing for 3DS/Wii U.  The link also states that they are working on a sequel for Mutant Mudds on the 3DS for 2013.  Granted they might not be the perfect indie developer you are looking for but most people probably haven't heard of them.  Just check out their wiki page.  Almost all their games are on the DS and 3DS with only Muntant Mudds and Dementium II listed for Windows.  Also, it states that "They are best known for making  Dementium: The Ward for the Nintendo DS." which falls under the criteria that indie developer made it big on either Wii, DS, 3DS which I was responding to.  So I would probably retract Nicalis while still sticking with Renegade Kid as a good example.



zarx on 12 September 2012
sethnintendo said:
zarx said:
sethnintendo said:
Soundwave said:

 

I'm not asking for anyone to list 50 new devs born on the Wii/DS ... name one or two big time success stories of indie devs on Wii/DS/3DS.

Mutant Mudds - Renegade Kid (developer made it for 3DSWare first and now putting it on Steam, will give 3DS owners the 20 extra levels that are going to the PC version and said they are going to use the PC revenue to fuel more 3DS / WiiU games)

http://gimmegimmegames.com/2012/09/renegade-kid-using-steam-version-of-mutant-mudds-to-fund-new-3dswii-u-games-will-not-leave-nintendo-behind-to-make-pc-games/

Cave Story and VVVVVV - Nicalis

Renegade Kid started out making published titles tho, and is made up of industr vets. Also the fact that they need money from the PC releases to fund development of their Nintendo titles isn't really a great success story for Nintendo. And Cave Story and VVVVVV started out on PC and were just ported by Nicalis.

Nnooo and Gaijin Games would be better examples of Nintendo indie success stories IMO.


Ah I didn't look into Cave Story and VVVVVV that much but I knew they were on Steam.  I just thought they did pretty good on DSiWare, WiiWare (Cave Story) which led to the failed release of Cave Story 3D (released around same time Super Mario 3D Land which probably didn't help, probably should have just been a 3DSWare title).  I should have looked further into it but it says on wiki that Nicalis did work with Amaya on Cave Story for the WiiWare to add a few new things into it (at least not an exact port).  I suppose your examples would probably be better. 

Renegade Kid porting Mutant Mudds over to Steam shouldn't be looked too negatively on Nintendo.  It is only a given that a developer would port their game to as many markets as possible (if it is a good game).  I was more encourage by the link that the developer seems to like what is happening with their games on Nintendo's market by stating they won't lose any focus on developing for 3DS/Wii U.  The link also states that they are working on a sequel for Mutant Mudds on the 3DS for 2013.  Granted they might not be the perfect indie developer you are looking for but most people probably haven't heard of them.  Just check out their wiki page.  Almost all their games are on the DS, Wii, and 3DS with only Muntant Mudds and Dementium II listed for Windows.  Also, it states that "They are best known for making  Dementium: The Ward for the Nintendo DS." which falls under the criteria that indie developer made it big on either Wii, DS, 3DS which I was responding to.  So I would probably retract Nicalis while still sticking with Renegade Kid as a good example.


Fair enough



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errorpwns on 12 September 2012
Soundwave said:
errorpwns said:
Soundwave said:
sethnintendo said:
Soundwave said:
sethnintendo said:
Soundwave said:

 

I'm not asking for anyone to list 50 new devs born on the Wii/DS ... name one or two big time success stories of indie devs on Wii/DS/3DS.

Mutant Mudds - Renegade Kid (developer made it for 3DSWare first and now putting it on Steam, will give 3DS owners the 20 extra levels that are going to the PC version and said they are going to use the PC revenue to fuel more 3DS / WiiU games)

http://gimmegimmegames.com/2012/09/renegade-kid-using-steam-version-of-mutant-mudds-to-fund-new-3dswii-u-games-will-not-leave-nintendo-behind-to-make-pc-games/

Cave Story and VVVVVV - Nicalis

Congratulations, you actually accomplished something in 1 post that the OP couldn't in like 20.

Nintendo still has a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way to go in the indie scene, I think with Wii U they are realizing they need Western indie devs becauue they are not going to get into a pissing match with Microsoft on Western exclusives from the "big boys".

These small Western devs, $5 million and can fund probably five different projects from guys like the Trine developer. They'd be smart to scoop up as much indie Western support and Japanese support they can get right now, because it can be had for cheap. 

Yea, they are coming a little late to the game but I believe there is still enough time.  They have showed a pretty good improvement with the 3DS eshop and I can only assume it will be better for the Wii U shop.  For the most part I do agree with most of what you are saying (in the previous posts).  It just seemed like you are maybe a little too critical of Nintendo's online strategy considering they are making decent improvements.  Sure these improvements are a few years behind but I believe they are starting to realize what they need to offer for online services to stay competitive. 

Nintendo has published some pretty good 3DSWare games (Pushmo, Sakura Samurai, Ketzal's Corridors, Dillon's Rolling Western).  Ketzal's Corridors (Keys Factory) and Dillon's Rolling Western (Vanpool) were developed by small studios (I am pretty sure that they aren't owned by Nintendo) and published by Nintendo.   Also, I can't deny that more indie companies have had success on other markets than Nintendo's market.  Hopefully, Nintendo will scoop up more indie studios or at least help them make money.

3DS eShop is not even close to good enough though.

If they want to have real success in this field then their online shop needs to be on par with PSN/XBLA/iTunes shopping experience. It should be clear, clean, concise, account based. I still have trouble finding certain demos and content on the eShop, it's just all over the place and a mess of a layout. And they need to be brutally honest with themselves and hold themselves up to a high standard. The eShop feels like an experience or browsing the internet circa 1997.

With Wii U, like I said they need to come out of the gate, day 1 swinging. Every system should come with free points good for 1-2 downloads to get people signed up to an account and accustomed to going online and buying online from Nintendo. The system itself should come with a video that illustrates step by step how to get online and what you can do and buy online for noobs/extreme casuals.

And they themselves should fund a lot more original Western content from indie devs. I'd lock up the Trine guys for 1-2 projects. I'd go seek out the Super Meatboy guy. I'd instruct NOA to get off their ass and actually do something and go find the next star developer, much in the same way Howard Lincoln found Rare doing SGI demos and turned that into the blockbuster that was Donkey Kong Country.

It's time for Nintendo to rediscover that sensibility because honestly they have lost it over the years. And not just small Japanese devs. 80% of the game development talent today is outside of Japan. Go work with some of these people for gawds sake. They have ideas and talent and just need the funding. Some kid in his garage right now is coming up with the idea of the next Angry Birds. Get off your ass NOA and go find me that kid. That's what I'd be saying to my Western divisions.


3DS Eshop is account based from my current knowledge of buying programs.  It links to my Nintendo account.  Secondly, the shopping experience on the e-shop is better than PSN/XBLM.  I had a terrible time navigating PSN and Xbox Live marketplace isn't anymore pleasent.  The only truly pleasent storefront so far for me has been steam.


It is not account based. Even Nintendo acknowledges that and says they are working to change that for the Wii U.

Steam blows everyone away, Valve is lightyears ahead of all the console dinosaurs.

Well it isn't directly account based then.  It still links to my Nintendo account what games I buy from th e-shop. It's worth noting I've never navigated through the Wii e-shop, just the DSi and 3ds eshops.  The new eshop has been fairly easy to navigate and find what I want for me.  Though that could be due to the lack of titles compared to the 360 and PS3 which are flooded with large amounts of Xbox/PS2 games and a ton of DLC and other content.  Either way, i hope the Wii-U eshop fixes both those problems.  Having the touch screen will help loads with certain things.



lilbroex on 13 September 2012

In 1 hour, we will see what the future holds.