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Forums - Gaming - Oh boy , IGN is doing another TOP 100 list - TOP 100 RPGS ALL TIME

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do you like this top 100 bs?

no 74 53.24%
 
yes 46 33.09%
 
results 18 12.95%
 
Total:138
Kasz216 said:
forevercloud3000 said:
Kasz216 said:
forevercloud3000 said:
Crono141 said:
Why is FF6 better than 7?

Better Story, Better Characters, More expressive characters, more emotion, better art, better atmosphere, better music, better villain, better overworld, bigger overworld, more personality, better pacing, less linear. Also, its much more a traditional fantasy universe (with steampunk/magipunk elements), where FF7 is the first game to jump into a quasi modern "we have guns, but everybody still fights with swords anyway" universe.

FF7 had pretty FMVs, and it had great moments as well. I'm not knocking the masterpiece that is FF7. But FF6 is a better game all around.

Is it a question of taste? Of course. YMMV. I just think FF6 had a lot more going for it.

Better Characters? In what way? I can seriously only think of one character even worth talking about from VI and that was Terra....and as far as characters go she is probably the worst main protaganist in the entire series. She is weak willed, timid, self doubting and a total damsel in distress for more than half of the game. Almost every JRPG fan can name the entire cast from VII even without loving all of them.

FF6...  really doesn't have a single protaganist.  Though if you have to pinpoint one, really Celes or Locke fit better.

As for villian motivations.... what was Sephy's big motviation again that didn't make him a cookie cutter villian?  Kefka's motives are actually pretty great if you pay attention.   He's an extremely selfish nihilist.

I played FFVI, after VII, but I did indeed play it. I enjoyed what I did play but to me it pales pretty epically in comparison to what came in the PS1-2 days. I am a person who enjoys great graphics but my opinion has never been dependant on them. I LOVE Chrono Trigger and can stand beside it being one of the greatest games of all time. But VI? No...

The Characters of VI seemed to be thrown in a pot of whatever SE thought would be cool (See Vincent and Yuffie in VII). The whole lot of them were characatures of just that. Their plots never really touched me at all as the whole game felt pretty comical to me(In comparison to VII's ability to have comical moments but then turn serious). This could not be helped with the super goofy villain that is Kefka, the poor man's version of the Joker. 

On the other hand, each character in VII had distinctive personality flaws that are worked on and explored as the game goes on.

Cloud:A nobody with dreams of being great but comes to the rude realization that he is just average but hides behind a facade of narcisism to give the appearance he is as great as he wants everyone to think he is.

Tifa: Dreamy eyed female best friend from Cloud's childhood who was always pretty popular but doesn't come to realize what she could of had until it is already gone.

Aeris/th: a flower girl who could see into the eyes of the lifestream, knowing what she must do she faces it head on without hesitation. One can even say in a Jesus like sacrificial way. She imbeds herself in the party and somehow becomes this rock that helps make them all stronger.

Barrett: hard working avg guy, but with strong ideals and sense of what is right.

RedXIII: the lion hearted animal going through a rebelious phase but he has been kept from the truth.

Cid: wallowing drunkard who had big dreams but comes to grips of it's impossibility in spite himself.

Cait Sith:A comic relief character but even within that he has depth. He is secretly one of the bad guys who uses this robot as a guise to help you because he no longer feels comfortable doing what he knows is wrong.

Kefka has no decisive reasoning to do what he does. Selfishness as a motivation would imply a "Mine!" personality but that is not him. He is simply put "I HATE! I HATE!" and it never goes any deeper. Sephiroth is not a complete departure from villainy norms but he still stands out a lot better than Kefka. Sephiroth had an almost religious like devotion to the alien parasite known as Jenova. With such a crazy level of adoration you have to give him props for being so devoted to the cause.

Once again, I know it is all opinion but I just can't shake that feeling VI is just cheap ammo against the armies of "FFVII fans". I mean really, FFVII defined a generation of gaming. VI never had any such impact on anything.


Yeah.. except almost none of them actually had any character development... the difference between what you posted and what I did was that you gave out character descriptions mostly, while I mentioned character development.  There is a pretty big difference.   Pretty much only cloud gets any real character development... and even that doesn't really change his situation or personality, it just changes what we know about him.


Again it's selfish nihilism.

and... I'm not sure how much japanese stuff you watch/read, but Sepiroth is as cookie cutter as it gets...

Although, if you think Kefka has no motivation (Which he does, but lets put that aside.)

Which Batman villian is the best again?  What is there defining feature?

As for what selfish Nihilism is, this might give you a hint.

"Why do people insist on creating things that will inevitably be destroyed? Why do people cling to life, knowing that they must someday die? ...Knowing that none of it will have meant anything once they do?"


That spells out Kefka's selfish nihilism pretty well... it's actually a fairly unique reason.

I dislike Kafka. He wants to destroy everything for his own pleasure, even in Dissidia.. Really annoying.

 

Going ofF topic but I want to make this point before I bounce. Why FF7 series is held higher than most other FF games is because of all the side story you can do that wasn't part of the main game but were optional challenges. Keep in mind I'm talking about the series as a whole.

In the original game we have these memorable aspects. 

-There are two optional characters you can get, also if you do get them they have their own side stories. (character development)      

-Want to raise chocobos? You can get a gold one and find knights of the round

-you like fighting tough bosses? You got two weapons to kill

-mini-games and challenge battles?  Gold Saucer, and get Cloud final limit break, Omnislash

-you just want to play the story? You can ignore the above and beat Sephiroth

-you like tower defense games?  Junon Mako reactor.  Protect the Phoenix. Reward = Phoenix materia.

-Want to customize your characters? play around with different combinations of materia, and add the magic/skills/traits you want them to have.

-------------------------------------

Then we have FFVII Dirge of Cerberus - With Vincent as main protagonist. We go even further into his development and the history of Shinra.

Crisis Core - Zack story, the origin of the Buster Blade. Why Sephiroth did what he did.. not going to spoil it but I'll say this much. This chapter is also when Cloud met Zack.

Before Crisis - Never played it unfortunately.

--------------------------------------

FFVII by itself is an awesome game, but to enjoy and appreciate the whole story you've got to play them all. But, If you don't like the story then you have the right to have your own personal taste.  --





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If Xenoblade doesn't make into the top 10 I'm gonna be really mad



 

 

 

Kyuubi Ricky SSJ2 said:

List so far for those to lazy too go through all the pages:


100 - Ys Book I & II
99 - Lunar: Eternal Blue
98 - Shadow Hearts: Covenant
97 - Final Fantasy VIII
96 - Phantasy Star
95 - The Legend of Dragoon
94 - Vagrant Story
93 - Tales of Phatansia
92 - Diablo III
91 - Fable II
90 - Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4
89 - Fallout: New Vegas
88 - Final Fantasy IX
87 - Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals
86 - Shadowrun
85 - Breath of Fire III
84 - Kingdom Hearts
83 - Fire Emblem
82 - Might and Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven
81 - Dragon Warrior VII
80 - Dungeon Master
79 - Icewind Dale 2
78 - The Witcher 2
77 - Tales of Symphonia
76 - Illusion of Gaia
75 - Front Mission 3
74 - Wizardry 8
73 - Final Fantasy
72 - Grandia 2
71 - The Bard's Tale
70 - Demon's Souls
69 - Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3
68 - Kingdom Hearts 2
67 - Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
66 - Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time
65 - Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
64 - Final Fantasy X
63 - Skies of Arcadia
62 - The World Ends With You
61 - Chrono Cross

Shamefully copy & pasted from Neogaf.


That would be me.  Thanks!



Yoshiya said:
forevercloud3000 said:

 

Cloud:A nobody with dreams of being great but comes to the rude realization that he is just average but hides behind a facade of narcisism to give the appearance he is as great as he wants everyone to think he is.

 Sephiroth had an almost religious like devotion to the alien parasite known as Jenova. With such a crazy level of adoration you have to give him props for being so devoted to the cause.

To the bold:

Cloud comes across as a moper to me and I just don't like it. I haven't played FFVII itself but I have played pretty much everything else he was in and I actually felt little character development happened with him. He kept getting these chances and then refusing to accept them because he was this supposedly great warrior or he felt he had failed in some way and wasn't worth. Just didn't like this at all in him.

As to Sephiroth's devotion, having played Crisis Core I must say his complete devotion has a rather weak background story. He finds out he is a Shinra Experiment for the perfect SOLDIER, finds his "mother" and then decides he is going to continue her original plan to destroy the world.... Wait? At what point did he become so attached to his "mother" that he had to destroy the whole world for her?


To each his own of course, but you might hold a different opinion after playing FFVII. I can run through the transformations with you but I will put in in SPOILER Text.

FFVII Flashbacks: When Cloud was a kid he was infatuated with Tifa, the neigborhood popular girl(maybe the only girl). He had a secret crush on her but she barely gave him the time of day. He tried multiple times to impress her but never took hold. Tifa did always feel sorry about how the other kids treated him, and when she got hurt he hurt himself trying to help her. This started a plotonic friendship between them. Cloud feels like he needs to do something with his life, something that will make Tifa and his family proud of him. He decides to join SOLDIER.

FFVII Crisis Core: Cloud joins the Shinra Army, barely passes boot camp. He wants to aspire and be like the Great Sephiroth but it doesn't work out the way he wants. SOLDIER is a super elite, Cloud is nowhere near as good as them. Cloud's mom tells him he should find a nice older girl to take care of him, because she knows how dissappointed he is with his life. After Sephiroth burns down Cloud's home town and hurts Tifa, Cloud gets angry. His childhood hero turns out to be a sociopath (not to mention hurt his secret love and killed his mother). Sephiroth is completely unamused by human sympathy and feels it is just a chemical reaction(Seph now feels omnipotent as a higher being). Seph underestimates the power of the human heart so when he stabs Cloud, Cloud is able to regain his footing and throw Seph over the bridge. Sometime after this he is unconcious with Zack, where Hojo then experiments on them more to figure out how someone so weak defeated the greatest SOLDIER that ever lived? Cloud suffers from massive Mako poisoning which makes him succeptible to suggestion. Zack makes a final request to him as he dies "You'll be my living legacy...". Cloud in his drugged state takes this to heart, it is unclear is this was partly due to Cloud's envy of Zack's success as well.

FFVII:Cloud takes on the persona of a cocky, successful member of Soldier just as he bumps into his old friend Tifa who has now joined a terrorist group. He is entirely insecure of himself but the facade keeps people at bay and stops them from asking too many questions (for instance Tifa who sees some of the Holes in Cloud's Success story but she doesn't say anything because she doesn't want to steal his confidence.) Plot goes on and on many occassions we see Sephiroth, who can command all Jenova cells, take control of Cloud's mind. Cloud is the only person to ever truly resist Sephiroth's control tho, which angers him but fascinates at the same time. Cloud retains his false sense of confidense all the way till the point Aeris, the love of his life is taken out bout Sephiroth. He feels utterly defeated as Sephiroth has taken yet another dream from him. His friends help him face the reality of his life situation and ignite him with a new vigor to take on Seph.Cue "One Winged Angel" followed by "Omnislash". See, even after beating Safer Sephiroth, Seph wanted to prove that his mission was not over and that Cloud would never be free of him. Seph pulls Cloud into the life stream and he enters a dream like state, here Cloud faces off With the part of Sephiroth that controls his mind.

FFVII Advent Children: Cloud has to come to grips with the fact they BARELY saved the planet, Aeris is still dead, and now some kind of disease has plagued everyone(he also has said disease). his history of not being able to save what he wanted to protect consumes his mind. Tifa(who has now developed feelings for him but his heart still belongs to Aerith) tries to help him through it. Cloud takes off into seclusion in a vain attempt to sepperate himself from those he loves(He feels bad things happen to them simply for being around him). So yes, as many love to point out, this is where he becomes full on depressed (Any normal person should be at this point). Kadaj and his gang show up, start reaking havoc all over in an attempt to force Cloud out of hiding. Kadaj is a part of Sephiroth in a spiritual Jenova kind of way. That part of him still sees Cloud as a Rival yet a lower being at the same time. They taunt him of all his previous failures trying to break his will. Then once again Tifa comes to reassure his confidence and he takes them out....until Kadaj turns into Sephiroth that is. I feel one line speaks leagues of the dynamic between Cloud and Sephiroth. Seph says "Tell me what you cherrish most......give me the pleasure of taking it away." The fact that Sephiroth haunts every facet of Cloud's life and is responsible for almost everything bad that has happened dto him is embodied in that one line. Cloud finally stops running away from the fact he cares about others, accepts it, and realizes if you deeply care about anything you have to at least try to protect it. Cue "Omnislash Ver. 5".

Personally, I just feel what Cloud goes through as very relatable and real. Have you or anyone you ever known strived to do something in particular with your/their life....but fell short of your goal? That sense of despair and regret constantly nagging at the back of your head. Its almost too real for me that it gives me goosebumps just thinking about it lol.

Sephiroth I will tackle seperately. Seph is a narcisist through and through. He is that really smart or skilled person....that knows they are and flaunts it at every venue. Yet Sephiroth is very bored with his "greatness", it is daunting because he never has a real challenge. One of the worst things that can happen to a "Gifted" student/person is for them to stop feeling challenged. Sephiroth never formed human like attachments to anyone and he probably killed small animals as a child(first signs of a sociopath). He always felt a sense of "superiority" he just didn't have the knowledge to prove that he was. His sanity was always teetering on a wire string. Once he finds out the origins of his past, all hell breaks loose. Maybe i just read a lot into the suttle sub texts and body language (in block form lol). Sephiroth doesn't respond with tears or fury when he finds out about how he was created, instead he responds with laughter....uncomfortable laughter and his shaking shoulders. You ever see someone at a funeral who starts laughing because their body has confused emotional responses? I feel that is what Seph felt.  And many confuse Sephiroth's actions as a "Destroy the World" plot but it was more than that. You have to understand Jenova is a Galactus like Alien Parasite the EATS planets. Her/It's process is basically infiltrate lifeform cultures on a given planet, be embeded in their society, slowly start infecting them as to make "children" of sorts, take over the planet and feed off of it accordingly. The purpose of Summoning Meteor was to WOUND the planet, not Destroy it. This is similar to whatever Jenova did in the past to create the Great Crater. Jenova/Sephiroth simply wanted to embed themselves within the planet(through the scar from Meteor) which would cause the planet to go into hyper defense mode and start killing all life with it's "Weapons" which are basically the planet's last form of defense. Once that started they would feed on lifeforce from all of it. Then Jenova would have used the planet like a satalite ship until it drifted into another life filled planet, rince repeat.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

FF7, a game so awesome they had to make 4 games to show you how awesome it was...



Check out my Youtube Let's Play channel here.

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Kasz216 said:


Yeah.. except almost none of them actually had any character development... the difference between what you posted and what I did was that you gave out character descriptions mostly, while I mentioned character development.  There is a pretty big difference.   Pretty much only cloud gets any real character development... and even that doesn't really change his situation or personality, it just changes what we know about him.


Again it's selfish nihilism.

and... I'm not sure how much japanese stuff you watch/read, but Sepiroth is as cookie cutter as it gets...

Although, if you think Kefka has no motivation (Which he does, but lets put that aside.)

Which Batman villian is the best again?  What is there defining feature?

As for what selfish Nihilism is, this might give you a hint.

"Why do people insist on creating things that will inevitably be destroyed? Why do people cling to life, knowing that they must someday die? ...Knowing that none of it will have meant anything once they do?"


That spells out Kefka's selfish nihilism pretty well... it's actually a fairly unique reason.

The Joker in Batman his helmed as his greatest enemy for that very reason...maybe that is why I feel Kefka is so been there and done that. Also that ideal comes across very poorly in that game with the very lamen script. It sounds identical to Exdeath now that you mention it. "Everything means nothing, it must all return to the VOID!!!!!!!!!"

I could go back through and give exact and precise moments where each character from VII made a metamorphasis as a character but I was trying to save long drawn out typing and just hinted at where each character's motivations went. This is all irregardless though because almost all FF games have made the characters come to a climax in a personal story (At least VI-X did). I just feel like VI's were very A-Typical with their Cool factor arch types (The theif, the ninja,the warrior, the samarai, the kung fu master, tarzan clone, etc). The characters from VII hold no such character arch types(accept Vincent the mysterious one and Yuffie the Ninja) and instead have to rely on inner conflict not indicative of their professions alone.

And I will say again, Sephiroth is not 100% original either. Yet he still comes off far more charismatic and appealing as a villain than goofy over the top Kefka. As far as villain motivations go in the FF series, my personal picks would be Sephiroth(for reason's stated before) and Kuja who surprisingly in spite of his odd appearance has an actual formulated reasoning to his madness.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

Crono141 said:
FF7, a game so awesome they had to make 4 games to show you how awesome it was...


True DAT!!!! lol

If Chrono Trigger and FFVII are not #1 and 2 in any which order I will have a serious BF.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

I see the sarcasm of my post went right over your spikey haired head. Oh well.



Check out my Youtube Let's Play channel here.

Crono141 said:
I see the sarcasm of my post went right over your spikey haired head. Oh well.

lol... and you have spiky hair too!



MikeB predicts that the PS3 will sell about 140 million units by the end of 2016 and triple the amount of 360s in the long run.

Crono141 said:
I see the sarcasm of my post went right over your spikey haired head. Oh well.

I saw your sarcasm, and I raised it with my blatent seriousness of that statement :P lol



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)