Yoshiya said:
forevercloud3000 said:
Cloud:A nobody with dreams of being great but comes to the rude realization that he is just average but hides behind a facade of narcisism to give the appearance he is as great as he wants everyone to think he is.
Sephiroth had an almost religious like devotion to the alien parasite known as Jenova. With such a crazy level of adoration you have to give him props for being so devoted to the cause.
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To the bold:
Cloud comes across as a moper to me and I just don't like it. I haven't played FFVII itself but I have played pretty much everything else he was in and I actually felt little character development happened with him. He kept getting these chances and then refusing to accept them because he was this supposedly great warrior or he felt he had failed in some way and wasn't worth. Just didn't like this at all in him.
As to Sephiroth's devotion, having played Crisis Core I must say his complete devotion has a rather weak background story. He finds out he is a Shinra Experiment for the perfect SOLDIER, finds his "mother" and then decides he is going to continue her original plan to destroy the world.... Wait? At what point did he become so attached to his "mother" that he had to destroy the whole world for her?
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To each his own of course, but you might hold a different opinion after playing FFVII. I can run through the transformations with you but I will put in in SPOILER Text.
FFVII Flashbacks: When Cloud was a kid he was infatuated with Tifa, the neigborhood popular girl(maybe the only girl). He had a secret crush on her but she barely gave him the time of day. He tried multiple times to impress her but never took hold. Tifa did always feel sorry about how the other kids treated him, and when she got hurt he hurt himself trying to help her. This started a plotonic friendship between them. Cloud feels like he needs to do something with his life, something that will make Tifa and his family proud of him. He decides to join SOLDIER.
FFVII Crisis Core: Cloud joins the Shinra Army, barely passes boot camp. He wants to aspire and be like the Great Sephiroth but it doesn't work out the way he wants. SOLDIER is a super elite, Cloud is nowhere near as good as them. Cloud's mom tells him he should find a nice older girl to take care of him, because she knows how dissappointed he is with his life. After Sephiroth burns down Cloud's home town and hurts Tifa, Cloud gets angry. His childhood hero turns out to be a sociopath (not to mention hurt his secret love and killed his mother). Sephiroth is completely unamused by human sympathy and feels it is just a chemical reaction(Seph now feels omnipotent as a higher being). Seph underestimates the power of the human heart so when he stabs Cloud, Cloud is able to regain his footing and throw Seph over the bridge. Sometime after this he is unconcious with Zack, where Hojo then experiments on them more to figure out how someone so weak defeated the greatest SOLDIER that ever lived? Cloud suffers from massive Mako poisoning which makes him succeptible to suggestion. Zack makes a final request to him as he dies "You'll be my living legacy...". Cloud in his drugged state takes this to heart, it is unclear is this was partly due to Cloud's envy of Zack's success as well.
FFVII:Cloud takes on the persona of a cocky, successful member of Soldier just as he bumps into his old friend Tifa who has now joined a terrorist group. He is entirely insecure of himself but the facade keeps people at bay and stops them from asking too many questions (for instance Tifa who sees some of the Holes in Cloud's Success story but she doesn't say anything because she doesn't want to steal his confidence.) Plot goes on and on many occassions we see Sephiroth, who can command all Jenova cells, take control of Cloud's mind. Cloud is the only person to ever truly resist Sephiroth's control tho, which angers him but fascinates at the same time. Cloud retains his false sense of confidense all the way till the point Aeris, the love of his life is taken out bout Sephiroth. He feels utterly defeated as Sephiroth has taken yet another dream from him. His friends help him face the reality of his life situation and ignite him with a new vigor to take on Seph.Cue "One Winged Angel" followed by "Omnislash". See, even after beating Safer Sephiroth, Seph wanted to prove that his mission was not over and that Cloud would never be free of him. Seph pulls Cloud into the life stream and he enters a dream like state, here Cloud faces off With the part of Sephiroth that controls his mind.
FFVII Advent Children: Cloud has to come to grips with the fact they BARELY saved the planet, Aeris is still dead, and now some kind of disease has plagued everyone(he also has said disease). his history of not being able to save what he wanted to protect consumes his mind. Tifa(who has now developed feelings for him but his heart still belongs to Aerith) tries to help him through it. Cloud takes off into seclusion in a vain attempt to sepperate himself from those he loves(He feels bad things happen to them simply for being around him). So yes, as many love to point out, this is where he becomes full on depressed (Any normal person should be at this point). Kadaj and his gang show up, start reaking havoc all over in an attempt to force Cloud out of hiding. Kadaj is a part of Sephiroth in a spiritual Jenova kind of way. That part of him still sees Cloud as a Rival yet a lower being at the same time. They taunt him of all his previous failures trying to break his will. Then once again Tifa comes to reassure his confidence and he takes them out....until Kadaj turns into Sephiroth that is. I feel one line speaks leagues of the dynamic between Cloud and Sephiroth. Seph says "Tell me what you cherrish most......give me the pleasure of taking it away." The fact that Sephiroth haunts every facet of Cloud's life and is responsible for almost everything bad that has happened dto him is embodied in that one line. Cloud finally stops running away from the fact he cares about others, accepts it, and realizes if you deeply care about anything you have to at least try to protect it. Cue "Omnislash Ver. 5".
Personally, I just feel what Cloud goes through as very relatable and real. Have you or anyone you ever known strived to do something in particular with your/their life....but fell short of your goal? That sense of despair and regret constantly nagging at the back of your head. Its almost too real for me that it gives me goosebumps just thinking about it lol.
Sephiroth I will tackle seperately. Seph is a narcisist through and through. He is that really smart or skilled person....that knows they are and flaunts it at every venue. Yet Sephiroth is very bored with his "greatness", it is daunting because he never has a real challenge. One of the worst things that can happen to a "Gifted" student/person is for them to stop feeling challenged. Sephiroth never formed human like attachments to anyone and he probably killed small animals as a child(first signs of a sociopath). He always felt a sense of "superiority" he just didn't have the knowledge to prove that he was. His sanity was always teetering on a wire string. Once he finds out the origins of his past, all hell breaks loose. Maybe i just read a lot into the suttle sub texts and body language (in block form lol). Sephiroth doesn't respond with tears or fury when he finds out about how he was created, instead he responds with laughter....uncomfortable laughter and his shaking shoulders. You ever see someone at a funeral who starts laughing because their body has confused emotional responses? I feel that is what Seph felt. And many confuse Sephiroth's actions as a "Destroy the World" plot but it was more than that. You have to understand Jenova is a Galactus like Alien Parasite the EATS planets. Her/It's process is basically infiltrate lifeform cultures on a given planet, be embeded in their society, slowly start infecting them as to make "children" of sorts, take over the planet and feed off of it accordingly. The purpose of Summoning Meteor was to WOUND the planet, not Destroy it. This is similar to whatever Jenova did in the past to create the Great Crater. Jenova/Sephiroth simply wanted to embed themselves within the planet(through the scar from Meteor) which would cause the planet to go into hyper defense mode and start killing all life with it's "Weapons" which are basically the planet's last form of defense. Once that started they would feed on lifeforce from all of it. Then Jenova would have used the planet like a satalite ship until it drifted into another life filled planet, rince repeat.