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Forums - Gaming - Google should remove emulators

Emulators are not illegal. The distribution of ROMs is. Why are we even discussing this? The topic creator should check the law before assuming that emulation, in its entirety, is illegal.

An emulator is essentially an interpreter which can read a (copyrighted) piece of software code and allow it to be used in non-native hardware such as a PC or a mobile phone with sufficient processing power.

The only situation in which emulators are illegal is if they include copyrighted code. This usually happens only with BIOS images, which in some situations are an integral part of emulation. Most emulator software allows you to 'add' your own BIOS, therefore bypassing this thorny issue -- by not giving you the BIOS, they are not distributing illegal code. But you could be an illegal user if the BIOS image has not been derived from your own console (using, for example, a NAND flash reader).



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Soleron said:
kain_kusanagi said:

...

We have a god given rights. Ownership of property is one of them. That's why you can shoot someone breaking into your house even if they are unarmed.

Please say you're religious upfront next time, it's not even worth arguing with such irrationality that results from it. There are no moral absolutes, not even God an agree with himself on them.

Whether you believe in God or not doesn't really matter. What matters is if you believe the government gives us our rights or that our rights are inherently human and inalienable? If the government gives us our rights then the government can take them away. That's not what the founding fathers believed.

Oh and you really couldn't be any more rude with your little "irrationality" insult. Have a little respect for others, even those you disagree with. You assume to know everything about me based on one word I used. I could probably assume a lot about you from what you've said, but I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt. Why should anybody start their discussion with "oh by the way I believe in God? The majority of people on this planet believe in some form of religion. Should I declare my race and gender? Or if I eat meat or dairy? How about my favorite color and what music I listen to? You hear one word and decided to fit me into a neat little box with a label so you can ignore everything I say regardless of validity.

You're attempt to belittle me has only embarrassed yourself. Good luck making friend with an attitude like that.



I'm happy to pay for my games, but when I want to play the games from my childhood (20+years old) and I don't have my Sega MS, emulators are the only way I can really do that. I don't know enough about the legal argument behind it, but there are a lot of analogies flying around here.



Highwaystar101 said: trashleg said that if I didn't pay back the money she leant me, she would come round and break my legs... That's why people call her trashleg, because she trashes the legs of the people she loan sharks money to.

Almost all the games I use with emulators I have usually bought in the past. I hope I can emulate the Vita and 3Ds soon. Why not I already pirate my 360 games. Emulating is not a crime, and pirating is a victimless crime.



sethnintendo said:
Kasz216 said:
sethnintendo said:

Okay so most are saying emulators are legal. I will look further into it but you gotta be fucking kidding yourself if you think people are downloading these emulators to play just custom made games. I beleive most people are downloading these to play the classics.

Actually, that's legal too.

Bleem! who won their case was specifically marketed as an emulator that allows you to play PS1 games on your dreamcast or computer.  They even used direct images from Sony created exclsuives like Metal Gear Solid and Tekken

 

The above was ruled totally legal. 

The only thing in emulation that's actually illegal is downloading a Rom from the internet.

Which over 90% of emulator users probably do.  Impossible to find actual numbers but I can safely assume this considering that is what most people use them for.  I suppose it is losing a fighting battle but I think it is pure bs.  I even have a few friends that pirated the fuck out of their Wiis.  I actually want to give companies I care for money.  I view emulator users as cheap ass bastards and this view will never change because I know most use illegal ROMs.

I would consider that most of that 90% have at some point in time, probably multiple times over a particular games lifespan, paid for that content. I have emulations of several NES games, the majority of which I own or have owned physical cartidiges for, and repurched the Virtual Console edition of said games when/if it became availble on the medium as well.

There is also the assumption that all roms are illegal which is not true. Capcom, for example, has put quite a few CPS1 - CPS2  games into the public domain. This lead to the advent of GGPO and subsequent releases of faithful ports of excellent fighting games with near flawless online play, of which I can state that I don't know how many times I purchased SFIII Third Strike, but also have a ROM/ISO image for.

This should say a few things:

1. The assumption that pirates don't also purchase content is absurd.

2. When companies make thier older titles available for free or cheap distribution and open, really cool things will happen.

3. If the market doesn't shift to accept electronic distribution, and also to allow people OWNERSHIP of the content they buy, then the industry may collapse.

4. To this day no one can clearly demonstrate that piracy has the same effects as theft on software sales.



-- Nothing is nicer than seeing your PS3 on an HDTV through an HDMI cable for the first time.

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kain_kusanagi said:
Soleron said:
kain_kusanagi said:

...

We have a god given rights. Ownership of property is one of them. That's why you can shoot someone breaking into your house even if they are unarmed.

Please say you're religious upfront next time, it's not even worth arguing with such irrationality that results from it. There are no moral absolutes, not even God an agree with himself on them.

Whether you believe in God or not doesn't really matter. What matters is if you believe the government gives us our rights or that our rights are inherently human and inalienable? If the government gives us our rights then the government can take them away. That's not what the founding fathers believed.

Oh and you really couldn't be any more rude with your little "irrationality" insult. Have a little respect for others, even those you disagree with. You assume to know everything about me based on one word I used. I could probably assume a lot about you from what you've said, but I'm going to give you the benefit of doubt. Why should anybody start their discussion with "oh by the way I believe in God? The majority of people on this planet believe in some form of religion. Should I declare my race and gender? Or if I eat meat or dairy? How about my favorite color and what music I listen to? You hear one word and decided to fit me into a neat little box with a label so you can ignore everything I say regardless of validity.

You're attempt to belittle me has only embarrassed yourself. Good luck making friend with an attitude like that.

The only thing I want to add here also, is there are different forms of belief. Not every Christian believes in a literal God, but may agree with certain parts of the Bible...not to debate that with anyone...just ticked me off a little bit when I read that arrogant post...makes all us Athiests look bad.



-- Nothing is nicer than seeing your PS3 on an HDTV through an HDMI cable for the first time.

Helloplite said:
Emulators are not illegal. The distribution of ROMs is. Why are we even discussing this? The topic creator should check the law before assuming that emulation, in its entirety, is illegal.

An emulator is essentially an interpreter which can read a (copyrighted) piece of software code and allow it to be used in non-native hardware such as a PC or a mobile phone with sufficient processing power.

The only situation in which emulators are illegal is if they include copyrighted code. This usually happens only with BIOS images, which in some situations are an integral part of emulation. Most emulator software allows you to 'add' your own BIOS, therefore bypassing this thorny issue -- by not giving you the BIOS, they are not distributing illegal code. But you could be an illegal user if the BIOS image has not been derived from your own console (using, for example, a NAND flash reader).

This isn't entirely accurate:

1. Distrubtion of ROMS are not always illegal. Several companies have release ROM images of once copyrighted content for free distribution.

2. Emulators interpret a processor to a non-native machine, which is how software on a non-native platform is able to be used. Once again this software is not always copyrighted, or the copyright has been modified by the current publisher / owner. Example, NES console emulators interpret the MOSS 6502, while PSX emulators interpret MIPS R3000 processors. This is A HUGE reason why emulators can't be considered illegal. It is custom code built to emulate a processor instruction set.

3. BIOS images on some console emulators are not required. There are a few PSX emulators that do not require the BIOS for boot. The people who create these emulators are often divided into two groups, those who build them to accurately emulate the original hardware and those who are only interested in playing non-native software on a specific platform.



-- Nothing is nicer than seeing your PS3 on an HDTV through an HDMI cable for the first time.

Nintendo does not even mess with real hardware emulation of its original consoles

See http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/b76e/ for one example.

That's because in some cases, it has not even bothered to renew patents as they expired.
The money is in protecting the IP that is the software.

Plus, emulators are used to produce and test "homebrew" releases -- which can give them a legit purpose.

Mike from Morgantown

Never enter a court fight where winning costs you more than not fighting.



      


I am Mario.


I like to jump around, and would lead a fairly serene and aimless existence if it weren't for my friends always getting into trouble. I love to help out, even when it puts me at risk. I seem to make friends with people who just can't stay out of trouble.

Wii Friend Code: 1624 6601 1126 1492

NNID: Mike_INTV

Leave Google alone. Some of us like to play Nintendo games without giving Nintendo support.



Nintendo is selling their IPs to Microsoft and this is true because:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=221391&page=1

Changed the thread title to reflect that suing would be pointless. I still believe they should be removed though considering it is taking away VC sales from Nintendo and Sony. Seems like there are some gray areas when discussing emulators so I am glad I learned more then I knew about this topic. I perhaps should have done more research before making the thread but it seems like others might be confused on what is legal and what isn't when it comes to emulator use.