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Forums - General - ‘You’ve made your choice’: Man shares dad’s brutal letter disowning him for being gay

Runa216 said:

Dude, don't enable him.  Ignorance and intolerance is such whether he's looking upon others with righteous condemnation or if he's burning crosses on their yards.  While one is worse, they're still both horrible. 

I understand that you see moral implications in his words and it's not something you're willing to let go by unchecked, but realize this is a forum and the topic is a father disowning his son who came out in the open about his sexual orientation.

If there's one place for him to express his opinions respectfully no matter how crazy they may sound to those who disagree, he must have his place to say it, and may his words speak for themselves. If your words are better, they will prevail. Let's not let bullying eskew the rules of the game.



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happydolphin said:
Runa216 said:

Dude, don't enable him.  Ignorance and intolerance is such whether he's looking upon others with righteous condemnation or if he's burning crosses on their yards.  While one is worse, they're still both horrible. 

I understand that you see moral implications in his words and it's not something you're willing to let go by unchecked, but realize this is a forum and the topic is a father disowning his son who came out in the open about his sexual orientation.

If there's one place for him to express his opinions respectfully no matter how crazy they may sound to those who disagree, he must have his place to say it, and may his words speak for themselves. If your words are better, they will prevail. Let's not let bullying eskew the rules of the game.

This is not a matter of differing opinions or freedom of speech, this is flat out bigotry.  there are some things that are NOT acceptable, and this is one of them.  This is no different than condemning someone for their skin color.  This is just as bad, but sexuality is a few years behind and is playing catch-up with race equality. 



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Runa216 said:

This is not a matter of differing opinions or freedom of speech, this is flat out bigotry.  there are some things that are NOT acceptable, and this is one of them.  This is no different than condemning someone for their skin color.  This is just as bad, but sexuality is a few years behind and is playing catch-up with race equality. 

I know this may be tough, but had we been in a topic about a racist father, I think it would be okay for a person with a racist worldview to post their thoughts, and have their ideas challenged, all within civil discourse.

I don't think anyone has come in here saying, and excuse the vulgarity, "God hatez gayz". As such, there is no issue with people posting their opinions and if they're wrong then so be it.

imho, hey but that's how I see it.

EDIT: I hope nobody took that offensively that obviously is not my POV in quotes. I am just trying to contrast that with people expressing their views, as ludicrous as they may sound to others. As long as they are stated with civility may the best opinion win.



You know this sort of thing always turns my stomach. How can something that is done between two consenting adults can be seen as this "crime"? I always defined "evil or bad" acts as something that harms another individual's mental or physical state. I had a long discussion with my brother about me being gay, one of the many reasons me and him do not converse very often. I told him the same thing stated above. You know what he told me? That I was hurting him....mentally by being gay. I told him he was a fucking idiot and hurt pride doesn't count as mental harm.

Around the age where I finally came to grips that I was gay, I also came to grips that my heavily religious family wouldn't fully accept it. I also came to the conclusion that I would never base my individual happiness over the thoughts of another person. Iner-Happiness is key, and the sooner my gay brothers and sisters around the world realize this, the happier they will become.



      

      

      

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Mr Khan said:
Branko2166 said:
Mr Khan said:
KylieDog said:
I see only disappointment and regret in that letter. He still wishes his son a good birthday and good life, that is not wished upon someone you hate, but the dad feels he must cut ties with him because it is against his religious beliefs.

In my mind, it would have been better if he was angry. If he's calm, or indeed sad, like he *has* to do this, then he has no motivation other than pure bigotry to cut ties with his son. It's not that he hates his son for what he has become, but that he has internalized the notion of homosexuals as untouchable to a degree deeper than emotion. This is internalized, institutionalized bigotry, and what i said before, the kind that needs to be purged more so.


I understand that you strongly disagree with the father's actions but you are using very strong words at the end of your post.

Can you clarify what you mean by "purging"??

Peacefully, of course, but firmly. But i do mean purged, as in this mode of thinking needs to be wiped from the world, or at least made as universally despised and marginalized as racism currently is.


 While I kind of agree with what you are trying to say, I firmly believe that the father put to much thought on his letter, he made a difficult decision: his son or his believes; And he decided to continue with what he thinks is the right thing to do. We may not like his decision but we must respect it, forcing our own convictions/believes onto others is not the right thing to do on any direction. 



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Runa216 said:

This is not a matter of differing opinions or freedom of speech, this is flat out bigotry.  there are some things that are NOT acceptable, and this is one of them.  This is no different than condemning someone for their skin color.  This is just as bad, but sexuality is a few years behind and is playing catch-up with race equality. 

Runa, just to give you an idea, I find Mr Khan's opinion on "purging viewpoints from the world" to be dispicable, because it fails to convey a sense of respect for the sovereinty each person has on their own thoughts, while instead conveying a sense of trying to conform everyone to one same ideology.

As much as I understand his idealism, the zeal in his PoV really scares me. Yet it's the second time he mentioned it and I didn't say anything, wasn't gonna because it's not my place. I'm only doing it here to prove a fundamental point: that though I have a moral issue with his PoV, I will not allow it to cause me to bully him into his place (as I would envision it).



happydolphin said:
Runa216 said:

This is not a matter of differing opinions or freedom of speech, this is flat out bigotry.  there are some things that are NOT acceptable, and this is one of them.  This is no different than condemning someone for their skin color.  This is just as bad, but sexuality is a few years behind and is playing catch-up with race equality. 

Runa, just to give you an idea, I find Mr Khan's opinion on "purging viewpoints from the world" to be dispicable, because it fails to convey a sense of respect for the sovereinty each person has on their own thoughts, while instead conveying a sense of trying to conform everyone to one same ideology.

As much as I understand his idealism, the zeal in his PoV really scares me. Yet it's the second time he mentioned it and I didn't say anything, wasn't gonna because it's not my place. I'm only doing it here to prove a fundamental point: that though I have a moral issue with his PoV, I will not allow it to cause me to bully him into his place (as I would envision it).

There's nothing wrong with wanting to eliminate bigotry.  your insistence on "freedom of Speech" is great...but there comes a time when people don't deserve free speech. 



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Runa216 said:

There's nothing wrong with wanting to eliminate bigotry.  your insistence on "freedom of Speech" is great...but there comes a time when people don't deserve free speech. 

When, and who makes that judgement call? With all the hastiness and zeal we've seen this far, I can't attribute to many in this thread who hold to the "no hate" PoV the wisdom to tell when it's time to say case closed.

As a matter of fact, imho, it's never cased closed. People can out of nowhere emerge with a random thought. If it's wrong, then let your word prove its worth. I personally think that that's how the world should work, and demonstrates much more respect for human dignity, even all things considered.

Now if a person starts raving and insulting people personally, we have a different story. As I said, that's not the case here.



Oh and for the record, how semantical is the whole Christianity can't accept homosexuality? Not only is it based on very limited understanding on a few key passages but also in pure willful ignorance. Most religious zealots who are less oblivious than most will tell you they know homosexuality can not be cured, only "contained". When people go to Ex-Gay ministries the goal is never to change them as they know thats impossible, instead they just want gays to resist their true feelings. How fracked is that??!?!?!

So to get it all straight, they know there is no changing us, they even realized the argument from the bible isn't as stable as they would like it to be, its just another excuse for one group of ppl to feel justified in being superior to another.



      

      

      

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forevercloud3000 said:
Oh and for the record, how semantical is the whole Christianity can't accept homosexuality? Not only is it based on very limited understanding on a few key passages but also in pure willful ignorance. Most religious zealots who are less oblivious than most will tell you they know homosexuality can not be cured, only "contained". When people go to Ex-Gay ministries the goal is never to change them as they know thats impossible, instead they just want gays to resist their true feelings. How fracked is that??!?!?!

So to get it all straight, they know there is no changing us, they even realized the argument from the bible isn't as stable as they would like it to be, its just another excuse for one group of ppl to feel justified in being superior to another.

@bold. That is simply incomplete. There are very varying views on the workings of christianity and homosexuality on a practical level.

If the bible asks for that to not be a part of the believer's life, it is a very big thing to ask of a believer, what Christian would deny that? Rather, the believer would be inclined to think "Only God can move mountains". If the individual is truly honest about worshipping God, he and God will find a way, and ultimately it's God's work that makes a person perfect. So whatever God's view of perfection is, he will work it out in the new disciple.

So you might want to revise that.