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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia hasn't changed

TheLibertarian said:
Mr Khan said:
Soleron said:
Mr Khan said:
Oddly, Putin himself was asking that they be treated leniently.

It's a show. Putin has absolute control over whether they are released or not, he' s just trying to look like the good guy and it's fooling no one.

Russia's real problem is that the downturn has shown how weak they actually are. In astrong economy, authoritarianism can be glossed over (China, 1930s Germany, Saudi Arabia etc.)

Actually it's the other way around. A strong economy will heal political tensions in the short run, but in the long run it spells doom for dictatorships. Economic weakness is the one that's bad for democracy, and good for dictatorships. Look at Cuba: Communism there has persisted because the government's narrative of "America is out to get us" is graciously made true by the Americans thanks to the embargo. If we had dropped the embargo at the end of the Cold War, they'd've been democratic by now, but the perpetual poverty keeps people looking towards Communism.

In Russia's case, economic collapse would either validate Putin's position, or lead to the rise of the far left or far right.


Applause!

Joining the applause

 

Also, in the examples of China and Germany - it's the other way around - Both Mao and Hitler took advantage of the economical and social crises of their respective countries.



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I question how storming a church would've gone in the U.S.

Also, the potential results of this ever growing discontent with Putin will be interesting to watch. I'd be interested in watching the Russians give Communism another go if democratic elections remained in place. I feel most of the ills of places like the USSR, the PRC, and the DPRK were borne of their authoritarian regimes, and weren't necessitated by their economic system.

Not to say their economic systems weren't without significant logistical and practical limitations, but I'd like to see somebody try the whole Communism thing again with the people still retaining control over their own government.

And by somebody, I mean somebody else. Not here, in case it goes horribly, disastrously wrong lol.

But I like a lot of the ideals of far left socialism and communism. People working together towards a common goal - the ever improving well being of society - with little emphasis on concepts like money and significant individual wealth.



makingmusic476 said:
I question how storming a church would've gone in the U.S.

People would of been upset.

Police would come and remove them from the property.

After the fine they would of gotten a minor fine and likely a restraining order against going near the church.

Christian groups would of called a protest and boycott.  Which being a Punk Rock group would of been mostly useless.

Atheists and anti-religious people would suddenly know their name and buy their CDs/listen to their music on youtube spotify.

 

Generally, net positive i'd say.



makingmusic476 said:
I question how storming a church would've gone in the U.S.

Also, the potential results of this ever growing discontent with Putin will be interesting to watch. I'd be interested in watching the Russians give Communism another go if democratic elections remained in place. I feel most of the ills of places like the USSR, the PRC, and the DPRK were borne of their authoritarian regimes, and weren't necessitated by their economic system.

Not to say their economic systems weren't without significant logistical and practical limitations, but I'd like to see somebody try the whole Communism thing again with the people still retaining control over their own government.

And by somebody, I mean somebody else. Not here, in case it goes horribly, disastrously wrong lol.

But I like a lot of the ideals of far left socialism and communism. People working together towards a common goal - the ever improving well being of society - with little emphasis on concepts like money and significant individual wealth.

It would be very difficult to create such a society in our current global order. By far the most powerful countries in the world are crony/state/market capitalists and if a country tries to move away from this ideology it get's attacked in numerous ways (subversion, wars etc). So what tends to happen is the 'leaders' of those countries that try and experiment with say socialism tend to become very authoritarian as a way of 'guarding' the revolution or transformation of society and form an 'intelligentsia' which is really no different from what we have now. And as we know power can corrupt even the most noble characters and as Orson Wells put it so well, 'All men are created equal but some are more equal than others'.

The only way for a more democratic socialist type world to take place is if it takes place foremost in the most powerful and industrialised countries and spreads from there. Afterall Capitalist Liechtenstein is hardly going to take on a Socialist USA.



Kasz216 said:
makingmusic476 said:
I question how storming a church would've gone in the U.S.

People would of been upset.

Why ask? There's more than enough precedents, like:

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/06/eight_occupy_wa.php

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/crime-scene/montgomery/guilty-verdict-in-moco-synagog.html

Pussy Riot will likely get their 3 years conditional sentence plus some fines and nobody gets hurt, though they've prosecuted in much more serious "incitement to ethnic or racial hatred".



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the2real4mafol said:
Kasz216 said:
Yeah. Heard about that two days ago.

Really sucks.


Also, it's not so much that Russia hasn't changed.

So much as Russia has backslided back into awfulness.

Yeah definitely, maybe Russia will never be democratic have the illusion of democracy like the west. Putin's a dick 

Fixed/



I was walking down along the street and I heard this voice saying, "Good evening, Mr. Dowd." Well, I turned around and here was this big six-foot rabbit leaning up against a lamp-post. Well, I thought nothing of that because when you've lived in a town as long as I've lived in this one, you get used to the fact that everybody knows your name.

I do not know enough about about Russia's laws and rules, but I do think that what these group of girlks was quite disrespectful, as a lot of posters have written here, it has happened in other countries but I guess the point is that we must understand that it's country has its own set of laws and just because they are different from the US does not make them extremists or anything like it, I mean what would happen if a group of protesters go inside a Synagogue all masked and with cameras and all, they'll probably be called terrorrists and be imprisoned for a long time, will the world react the way its reacting now? I once visited a country where I was told that its ok to date a girl 7 years younger, so If I am 23 I can date a 16 year old girl, when I informed them that thats illegal in the US they looked at me as if I came from a slavery country. to each their own I guess, a church wether you religious or not deserves respect, if you want to protest, do it! just dont break the law.



mai said:
Kasz216 said:
makingmusic476 said:
I question how storming a church would've gone in the U.S.

People would of been upset.

Why ask? There's more than enough precedents, like:

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/06/eight_occupy_wa.php

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/crime-scene/montgomery/guilty-verdict-in-moco-synagog.html

Pussy Riot will likely get their 3 years conditional sentence plus some fines and nobody gets hurt, though they've prosecuted in much more serious "incitement to ethnic or racial hatred".

Storming a church during a public sermon doesn't qualify as either of those.

At best it would be "Distrubing of the peace."



Kasz216 said:
mai said:
Kasz216 said:
makingmusic476 said:
I question how storming a church would've gone in the U.S.

People would of been upset.

Why ask? There's more than enough precedents, like:

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/06/eight_occupy_wa.php

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/crime-scene/montgomery/guilty-verdict-in-moco-synagog.html

Pussy Riot will likely get their 3 years conditional sentence plus some fines and nobody gets hurt, though they've prosecuted in much more serious "incitement to ethnic or racial hatred".

Storming a church during a public sermon doesn't qualify as either of those.

At best it would be "Distrubing of the peace."

Kasz, it seemz you're not too good in Russian Law system... )))

And to Mai - I think not 3 years, but smth like 1-1.5 years. Of which technically they already spent 6 months in jail so its not a big deal... Everybody will forget about them and about other disgusting things they were doing before.... (Oh, that chicken in supermarket... They should go in jail THEN, long before this shit started...)



Sharu said:
Kasz216 said:
mai said:
Kasz216 said:
makingmusic476 said:
I question how storming a church would've gone in the U.S.

People would of been upset.

Why ask? There's more than enough precedents, like:

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2012/06/eight_occupy_wa.php

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/crime-scene/montgomery/guilty-verdict-in-moco-synagog.html

Pussy Riot will likely get their 3 years conditional sentence plus some fines and nobody gets hurt, though they've prosecuted in much more serious "incitement to ethnic or racial hatred".

Storming a church during a public sermon doesn't qualify as either of those.

At best it would be "Distrubing of the peace."

Kasz, it seemz you're not too good in Russian Law system... )))

And to Mai - I think not 3 years, but smth like 1-1.5 years. Of which technically they already spent 6 months in jail so its not a big deal... Everybody will forget about them and about other disgusting things they were doing before.... (Oh, that chicken in supermarket... They should go in jail THEN, long before this shit started...)

I was talking about what would happen in the US, based on US law.