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Wonktonodi said:

but does it cover them all? and is there some clear place that covers all the ones that are kept and those that aren't? or are they all over and some just assumed?

There are some obscure ones but in the grand scheme of things they really don't matter. I kind of answered prof about this though a second ago, take a quick look.

For example, female hygene is another trivial matter, since it deals with external matters, much like food. Christ put emphasis on the things of the heart (morality, sexual purity, honesty, generosity). Paul supports this idea by saying that sexual immorality is a sin against the body and our body was bought at a price. Eating unclean foods is not considered a sin against the body, but something that affects aspects that have little basis in morality. Luckily for christians, this also makes alot of sense.

Here's where the church reasoned this out as well, above and beyond Jesus' declaration of all foods clean, but they did forbid the eating of foods sacrificed to idols and sexual immorality. For foods sacrificed to idols, it's probs because idolatry is still against the will of God as it was never superceded. However, Paul even supercedes that with Christian logic (there is really no such thing as an idol, there is truly but one God in the end, 1 Corinthians 8). Anyways, without further ado the Council at Jerusalem in the book of acts. (to note, below, among other things, circumcision not necessary to be saved, no longer a requirement).

The Council at Jerusalem

15 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.

Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart,showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

16 “‘After this I will return
    and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
    and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
    even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’[b] —
18     things known from long ago.[c]

19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”



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bouzane said:
All of these teachings from the Old Testament and whether or not Christ's teachings supersede them seems like a really clever and sinister way to obfuscate and subvert the teachings of Christ to me.

I'm sorry but that's how it is. Take it or leave it, but the Christian is called to follow all scripture in its entirety, the parts that supercede as those that re-establish.

You can disagree, but I gave you everything you needed to know. I wish you good luck, at this point you have everything in front of you to judge for yourself.

If you judge it as a scheme, that's your prerogative, I have no right to force you to think the contrary.

Though it makes me doubt your judgement, it doesn't not make me treat you any lesser than anybody else.



theprof00 said:

The problem is that it isn't Christ's teachings. That is Paul's teachings.

That's contrary to Christian doctrine. Paul is inspired by the Spirit of God, as Peter (the disciple of Christ) testifies: (2 Peter 3:15-16)

"15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

You'd make a better Catholic than a Christian. Those
are Catholic messages you're adhering to, because only Catholics listen to the words of men as divinely propogated by God.

Both Christians and Catholics (a form of Christian) follow the teachings of men divinely propagated by God. So did Christ. "This fulfills the law and the prophets". Law = Moses, prophets = prophets, all divinely inspired men. Jesus used Old Testament scripture (written by men) to fend Satan's ruses.

Being a Christian is to be Christ-like. 

True but not complete. Being Christian certainly is to be Christ-like, but it is also to cherish the word of God, as inspired by the holy spirit, which was sent by God the father in the name of Christ:

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit

15“If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will bec in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”

22Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

23Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25“All this I have spoken while still with you. 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

28“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. 30I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold on me, 31but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me."

Being Jewish is to obey God's laws and teachings.

Being Catholic is following the entirety of the Bible, and holding sacred the words of men as divine words.

Being Catholic requires that you hold to the words of men who were not appointed by God and teach things contrary to his will, such as worshipping the mother of Jesus, who was not to be worshipped, as no man is to be worshipped except the God-man Christ Jesus "you shall worship no other god before me". Since Jesus is God, he's the only man that can be worshipped.

 

The Paul you refer to is Saint Paul. By living according to the words of a saint, you are actually a Catholic.

I'd suggest you talk to your pastor about what religion he actually is.

 

Christians follow the words of saints, be they Catholic or protestant. The only difference is that Catholics also follow the words of saints that were not appointed by God and are not inspired by the holy spirit of God, and as such teach things contrary to his will. (See above) To clarify, biblically speaking, saints is just another term for believer:

-----------------------

<< Ephesians 1 >>

New International Version 1984  

1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,

To the saints in Ephesus,a the faithfulb in Christ Jesus:

2Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 

3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5hec predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And hed made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

------------------

About asking my pastor, I don't have a pastor as I don't go to church. :P



happydolphin said:

 

True but not complete. Being Christian certainly is to be Christ-like, but it is also to cherish the word of God, as inspired by the holy spirit, which was sent by God the father in the name of Christ:

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit

15“If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will bec in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”

22Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

23Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

 

Christians follow the words of saints, be they Catholic or protestant. The only difference is that Catholics also follow the words of saints that were not appointed by God and are not inspired by the holy spirit of God, and as such teach things contrary to his will. (See above)

About asking my pastor, I don't have a pastor as I don't go to church. :P

And what if they happen to be eastern orthodox? You know, the original christians?





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Player1x3 said:

happydolphin said:

Christians follow the words of saints, be they Catholic or protestant. The only difference is that Catholics also follow the words of saints that were not appointed by God and are not inspired by the holy spirit of God, and as such teach things contrary to his will. (See above)

About asking my pastor, I don't have a pastor as I don't go to church. :P

And what if they happen to be eastern orthodox? You know, the original christians?

Boy did I see you coming from a mile away.

What is your PoV on the worship of Mary?

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the original Christians were Jews, not greeks. Romains 1:16: " 16For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.”"

And that's without saying that Jesus was a jew, and that all the apostles were hebrew (Paul, Peter, Matthew, Marc, John, and others). The only New Testament writer that was greek was Luke, and he was a disciple of Paul, a jew.



Well, for someone who doesn't go to church, you are certainly well versed. Not that I agree. I think you're picking and choosing some of these specific "prophets we're allowed ot listen to", but I'm not going to make a big deal of it.

You're allowed to think however you'd like to think.

I just think it's too complicated. All one needs is the ten commandments, imo.





Player1x3 said:

1st world problems for sure. Can't agree more.



theprof00 said:

Well, for someone who doesn't go to church, you are certainly well versed. Not that I agree. I think you're picking and choosing some of these specific "prophets we're allowed ot listen to", but I'm not going to make a big deal of it.

You're allowed to think however you'd like to think.

I just think it's too complicated. All one needs is the ten commandments, imo.

Thanks friend. My only problem is 

Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that “We all possess knowledge.” But knowledge puffs up while love builds up. Those who think they know something do not yet know as they ought to know.  But whoever loves God is known by God.[a]

Love


<< 1 Corinthians 13 >>
New International Version 1984
 

1If I speak in the tonguesa of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,b but have not love, I gain nothing.

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

 

I'm being honest, most of the time I gain nothing because it's all knowledge and little love.

I wish to love people when I talk about these things but I'm impatient, and as says above, love is patient...

 

 

I'f I were picking and chosing that would be wrong. Rather, what I do is put all the pieces together. If one says one thing that contradicts another, I ask myself why and reason it out. That's how I pick and chose, by order of precedence. Christ takes precedence over the law, not only does it make sense, but it was prophesized in psalms "I do not delight in sacrifices but in a contrite heart", and was confirmed in the book of hebrews (NT) and in many other places in the new testament:


<< Hebrews 10 >>
New International Version 1984
 

Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All

1The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2If it could, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, 4because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:

“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,

but a body you prepared for me;

6with burnt offerings and sin offerings

you were not pleased.

7Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—

I have come to do your will, O God.’”a

8First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them” (although the law required them to be made). 9Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when this priest [Jesus] had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. 13Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, 14because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

15The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:

16“This is the covenant I will make with them

after that time, says the Lord.

I will put my laws in their hearts,

and I will write them on their minds.”b

17Then he adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts

I will remember no more.”c

18And where these have been forgiven, there is no longer any sacrifice for sin.

So no, I don't think I'm picking and chosing to my preference, but according to a scriptural order of priority.




happydolphin said:
Player1x3 said:

happydolphin said:

Christians follow the words of saints, be they Catholic or protestant. The only difference is that Catholics also follow the words of saints that were not appointed by God and are not inspired by the holy spirit of God, and as such teach things contrary to his will. (See above)

About asking my pastor, I don't have a pastor as I don't go to church. :P

And what if they happen to be eastern orthodox? You know, the original christians?

Boy did I see you coming from a mile away.

What is your PoV on the worship of Mary?

See the picture i posted