http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/nsmb2/0/0
Today, I would like to ask about the New Super Mario Bros. 2 game, soon to be released for the Nintendo 3DS system. Please introduce yourselves, including what you were in charge of for this game.
I'm Amano. I was the director. I also participated in the sessions of "Iwata Asks" over the 25th anniversary of Super Mario Bros.1 and Star Fox 64 3D.2, so this is my third time. 
That's right.
This time again, as if something were guiding me, I got put in charge of Super Mario! (laughs) It's a pleasure to be here today. 1. Super Mario Bros. 25th Anniversary: A campaign carried out in 2010 to mark 25 years since Super Mario Bros. was released for the NES system.
2. Star Fox 64 3D: A shooting game released for the Nintendo 3DS system in July 2011.
I'm Ishikawa from the Software Development Department. I was in "Iwata Asks" to discuss Mario Kart 73 a bit back, and was involved with New Super Mario Bros. Wii4 before that. As art director on New Super Mario Bros. 2, I was in charge of a number of things, pulling together the overall visuals such as design and direction surrounding the player-character. 
3. Mario Kart 7: An action-racing game released for the Nintendo 3DS system in December 2011.
4. New Super Mario Bros. Wii: An action game released for the Wii console on December 3, 2009.
Okay. First of all, I'd like to ask how this project started. Now normally when people imagine how video games are made, you'd think that it starts off by building its base mechanics, and then work on designing the courses. But I heard this game's start was a little different.
Yes, that's right. This time the team that researches course design started working on developing the courses first, and the other staff were called in to turn it into an actual product. This format was a first for me.
When you say the team that researches course development, you're talking about what is called the Mario Cram School.
Yeah. The Software Development Department of the Entertainment Analysis & Development Division (EAD) has always made the classic side-scrolling Super Mario games, but this time, there was an opportunity where (Takashi) Tezuka-san5 gathered people not only from EAD, but also from the Software Planning & Development Department, and from other departments to explain how to make Super Mario stages. I was also involved with it as one of the students. 5. Takashi Tezuka: General Manager, Software Development Department, Entertainment Analysis & Development Division. He has been involved in the development of many series such as Super Mario, Yoshi and Animal Crossing. He appeared in the session of Iwata Asks for the Super Mario Bros. 25th Anniversary called "Original Super Mario Bros."
Why did the Mario Cram School begin?
I heard Tezuka-san believes that the course design plays a key role in determining the fundamental elements of 2D Mario games, so he opened the cram school in hopes to spread that knowledge across others within the company. Alongside Tezuka-san, (Toshihiko) Nakago-san6 was also deeply involved with this project. 6. Toshihiko Nakago: President of SRD Co., Ltd. Beginning with Super Mario Bros., he has been involved in the development of numerous titles for Nintendo since the dawn of the NES. He is serving as adviser for New Super Mario Bros. 2. He has appeared in the session of "Iwata Asks" for the Super Mario Bros. 25th anniversary called "Original Super Mario Developers."
You said you participated in it. How was it like?
Yeah I did participate in the cram school, but that was around the time when we were working on Starfox 64 3D, so I wasn't able to participate with full force. But as someone who worked on New Super Mario Bros. Wii, I had the opportunity to try out a course made in the Mario Cram School that was worked on by about twice the number of staff it usually takes to make Mario courses. A lot of the courses were a blast to play and showed a lot of new ways to play, I really felt we were on to something. Looking at it from that perspective, I thought the concept of the Mario Cram School was amazing.
You looked at it from the corner of your eye as if it were someone else's concern. (laughs)
Yes. (laughs) That was what I was thinking, but Tezuka-san suddenly asked me if I would like to be the director for the next Super Mario game for the 3DS. I was like, "Uh…that's why they had me play those courses…" (laughs)
You thought you weren't involved at all, and all the sudden you became the person who would be most involved with the project! (laughs)
That's not all. This time the Mario game for Wii U7is being developed at an almost simultaneous timing, so we had to get two 2D Mario games ready for release. 7. New Super Mario Bros. U: An action game under development for the Wii U console.
While the hardware for these 2D Super Mario games is different, you must think about how you can make each game distinctive. Amano-san, did they just dump that on you?
Not really, Tezuka-san and (Toshihiko) Nakago-san worked together with me from the start of the Mario Cram School, so for me it was like we were working together, rather than me taking it on by myself. They both thought it would work out somehow.
"Somehow"? (laughs)
Yeah. And at the start when I was appointed director, we didn't have any designers.
Nintendo does the most awful things! (laughs)
Yeah! (laughs) I was like, "What am I gonna do?!"
Tezuka-san and Nakago-san were like, "It'll work out somehow," but you were like, "What am I gonna do?!" 
Yes.
Ishikawa-san, you came in later on as art director.
Yes, that's right.
But until the latter half of 2011, you were absorbed in Mario Kart 7, right?
Yes. And a little before Mario Kart 7, there was Super Mario 3D Land8, which was close to a traditional Super Mario game in that it was made in a classic direction, so I thought, "Whoever's in charge of the next 2D Super Mario game will have a real hard time!" (laughs)
Yet another person who thought it had nothing to do with him! (laughs) 8. Super Mario 3D Land: A 3D action game released for the Nintendo 3DS system in November 2011.
Soon after development of Mario Kart 7 ended, I was asked if I'd do it, and I was floored, like, "What?!"
I'm sure you were. Because until that time you were thinking of it as somebody else's business, and all the sudden you were the one who had to do something about it.
But already at that time, it was decided that two designers from our Tokyo Software Development Department would soon join the team, and later on, a few more designers joined the project who had been involved in Mario Kart 7.
The project gained one member after the other who had experience developing actual games for the Nintendo 3DS.
Yes. I thought, "Now we should be able to make something fun!" and began to really look forward to it.
But Ishikawa-san and I were the only two core members of this project who had some sort of experience working on 2D Super Mario games.
Developers with experience in 2D Super Mario are working on Super Mario for the Wii U right now. It was an unprecedented approach, even though Tezuka-san and Nakago-san were both working very closely to the development team, more than they ever had on a 2D Mario game, from the time they took the podium at Mario Cram School to the actual development phases of this project.
Yeah.A few people from the Software Planning & Development Department, in addition to their design staff, also joined.
I believe quite a number of unique individuals with great dynamic range in term of capabilities came to participate from the Software Planning & Development Department.
Yes. Some knew a lot about games and some didn't, but the Mario Cram School we mentioned earlier came in incredibly useful. Participants got a firm grasp of the basic ingredients of what makes 2D Super Mario enjoyable and experienced actually making stages, so we were able to begin this project with a solid foundation. 
In that respect, some new blood came in to those in charge of stage construction theory and actually making the stages.
Yes, so I expected that we would be able to make something new that the teams so far hadn't.
In addition, forming such a team made it possible to achieve what we never had before—making two New Super Mario Bros. games at once!
Cooperation from the Super Mario 3D Land Staff
First, I'd like to ask about the graphics. This project included staff from the Tokyo Software Development Department that had been involved in the development of Super Mario 3D Land, right?
Yes. They really helped us out in our challenges with 2D Mario. The Super Mario 3D Land project tried all sorts of things in using stereoscopic 3D well.
That's right.
If we had simply tried to make a 2D Super Mario game without the experience and knowhow of the people from the Tokyo Software Development Department, I doubt we would have gone the route of fully utilizing stereoscopic 3D.
Thinking about it normally, since it's a side-scroller, you would have stopped your imaginations with a foreground and background that merely gave a three-dimensional impression.
I believe so. For the first prototype, we had only made the character models in 3D, so it looked three-dimensional, but the landforms were flat and just slapped on.
However, the staff from Tokyo Software Development Department improved that nicely. To be exact, the background landforms are a flat image, but it came to look a little three-dimensional, and if you turn on the 3D Depth Slider, it doesn't just gain depth, but gradually blurs.
By "blur," or "bokeh," you mean the effect that was originally a terminology in photography that then became adapted as a term used in computer graphics. It's used when describing the depth of field, where the area of the picture in focus is clear, but the area that's out of focus is blurry.
Yes. The depth of field means the depth of the picture that's in focus, and is used in terms like a picture having "a shallow depth of field". The depth of field becomes shallower as you slide the 3D Depth Slider, and the background blurs. Well, rather than putting it in words, it's better to actually see it.
Okay. Turn on the 3D Depth Slider and…oh! You're right!9 (laughs) 9. To enjoy the stereoscopic 3D effect of Nintendo 3DS software, you must experience it from the system itself. Videos of 3D gameplay of New Super Mario Bros. 2 are available in the Nintendo eShop. Beginning in August, a playable version will become available at select retailers.
Recent digital cameras have functions for blurring the background as well as foreground areas. Tezuka-san asked the Tokyo staff if we could do something like that, and this was the result. 
This is really amazing—although maybe I shouldn't be so unreserved in praising our own company's product! (laughs)
(laughs)
It looks like you've changed the camera's aperture settings.
Yeah. By making the depth of field shallower, in camera terms, that means you're opening the aperture of the lens and bringing in more light and the image gets faintly brighter. We pursued it all the way through such details. What's more, it focuses right on characters in the foreground, so it's extremely easy to play.
In other words, you don't just marvel at how cool it looks, but you can concentrate on the characters in the foreground, so it's easier to play.
Right. I don't think many video games have had anything like that before. I think we were able to realize it due to the addition of the new blood of the Super Mario 3D Land staff.
Super Mario games in 2D have always had a traditional graphics style, but in addition to extending and developing the gameworld from games past, did you try anything new?
This time, we added some 
night and evening scenes. It feels very different than before.
It was always a blue sky.
Yes. But this time, the designers had a desire to change that a bit. Design-wise, it's an extension of what has come before, but the night scenes make a slightly different impression.
It's definitely Super Mario, but at the same time it's a world we haven't seen before.
Yeah. I thought it would be good if everyone would be thrilled and—in a good way— it would be great if a sense of something unusual arose. And with regard to the characters, there's a new enemy named Boohemoth, who's sort of like a giant version of Boo. When facing Mario, Boo gets bashful and stops.
Boo's called Teresa in Japanese, because the word tereru means to be bashful.
Yeah! (laughs) So at first, Boohemoth gets shy and covers its face with its hands, but then peeks out and creeps after you.
Yeah. (laughs)
We thought it might be fun because people familiar with Super Mario games so far may be caught off guard and be like "Huh? Boo's sneaking after me!" You may be taken by surprise here and there in this game in a good way, and I hope that makes it feel fresh.
I suppose many people may take a quick glance at New Super Mario Bros. 2 and think, "Oh, it's the usual Super Mario."
Yeah.
But I get the impression from when I actually played it that if you think it's the same and don't take it seriously you'll run into trouble.
That's right. The staff had a strong desire this time to think of tough things that people might even get angry about. And we've changed some things with regard to the setup to make a fresh impression. For example, this time you can play special stages called Dash Mario. 
Dash Mario?
He's dashing from the start and can't stop.
It's best to actually try this out, too.
All right… (plays a little) Oh, I like this! (laughs)
You cleared it without any mistakes?!
On the first time…
This is quite an adrenaline rush! (laughs) It's like the carts in 
Donkey Kong Country!10
Yeah. We put in this simple kind of game so that people who aren't very good at action games and can't dash much will be able to experience what it feels like. 10. Donkey Kong Country: An action game released for the Super NES system in November 1994.
Shouldn't This One Be About Coins?"
Now I'd like to ask about how the theme of this game—one million coins—came about.
All right. It started early on in development when we were determining the structure little by little in order to make the stages fun, and for some reason Nakago-san and Tezuka-san kept talking about coins.
They were muttering about coins? (laughs)
Yeah, like, "Shouldn't this one be About Coins?" (laughs)
(laughs)
They were both going on about how good it felt to get coins. It was just about the time that Super Mario 3D Land was finishing up, and in that game Mario can put a Question Block over his head.
And if he runs around like that, coins come popping out.
I got a request to adopt that in New Super Mario Bros. 2. I was like, "So, uh…coins come out of his head?"
It didn't quite make sense to you at the time. 
No. I mean, only a few coins came out at first, and I thought, "That isn't very satisfying," so we made it so that if you dash, coins come out like crazy. I had Tezuka-san try it out and he was thrilled, saying, "This is great!" and "You can make all kinds of stages like this!" (laughs)
(laughs)
For the most part, only players with confidence in their skill can experience how good it feels to run through Super Mario in a dash, but I thought that if a bunch of coins come out when you do, it feels great, so more people will feel like tearing on through.
It would feel great to get coins just by dashing.
But that was something adopted from Super Mario 3D Land, and I didn't like just copying it, so I made a golden Koopa Troopa. If you stomp on and toss one, coins scatter around.
Right.
Around that time, when Tezuka-san and Nakago-san had one of their usual lunches--
Oh, the customary lunches.11 (laughs) 11. Shigeru Miyamoto, Takashi Tezuka and others have lunch meetings to exchange information, and once a week, Satoru Iwata also participates. For more details, see the special edition of "Iwata Asks" for The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword called "Creative Small Talk."
Yeah. He came back from one of those lunches absolutely brimming with joy and said, "How about one million coins?!" (laughs)
(laughs)
So all that muttering about coins suddenly increased to one million? (laughs)
Yes!
(opening the door) Sorry I'm late.
Oh, just in time, the "How about one million coins?" person walks in!
(laughs) 
Huh? Say what? 
We were just talking about how you said, "How about one million coins?"
Oh, I see.
Why did you decide on a million coins after coming back from lunch?
Um…
You don't remember?!
Not really, no.
(laughs)
I thought if players were going to collect them, then an astounding number would be better.
Yeah.
I didn't think that sticking to 100,000 or 10,000 was the way to go.
Amano-san, what did you think when you heard one million? I bet you thought, "That's ridiculous!"
I thought it was a good number to shoot for. I, too, thought, "It'll work out somehow."
Realy! (laughs)
Tezuka-san and Nakago-san came over to development and were putting lots of coins around the stages, so I thought, "Maybe we really can reach a million." And then at some point, we set one million coins as our goal.
But if you do that, then you have to make all kinds of things related to coins.
Yes, that's right.
We mentioned Koopa Troopas earlier, and at first, the only thing to become golden was the Koopa Troopas. Koopa Troopa hops through a Gold Ring and turns gold for a limited time, and I was satisfied with that. But then the designers said, "Why don't the other enemies become gold, too?" (laughs)
If we were going to do one, then…
Like, "Make gold Goombas, too!"
Yeah. And, "Make Lakitu gold!" (laughs)
And we made Bullet Bill gold.
So this time, all sorts of stuff turn into gold.
And then the screen…
It gets filled with gold.
(laughs)
The designers were worried that it would begin to look gaudy.
They were worried that with too much gold, it might look tacky.
Yeah. But the final visuals actually gave a luxurious impression and were simply pleasing. I thought, "This is great!" 
Ishikawa-san, I bet in all your time as a designer, you've never drawn so many coins or used so much gold!
You can say that again! (laughs)
And one more, there's Gold Mario.
The new power-up where Mario turns into gold all over.
One of the programmers suggested this idea, in past Mario games there was the P-Switch and by stepping on it the blocks would turn into coins. I was suggested that by using this mechanic we may be able to make a Mario power-up that would make it easy to collect coins. And when we made it, it felt great. From there we talked about making a new power-up.
I see.
What felt really new this time was that the programmers had a lot of ideas that helped steer the direction of the game.
That's probably because there was the primary objective of collecting coins. Everyone focused on it and a lot of ideas came out.
Yes, I think that's exactly what happened.
"I Don't Like It."
In addition to the main stages this time, you can play the Coin Rush mode. How did this new mode come to be?
It was before we decided that the theme this time would be collecting coins. I wanted to make a Super Mario game that you could play over and over again.
You wondered what you could do so that players wouldn't put it aside after clearing all the stages.
Yeah. Rather than making large-volume stages, I thought about how I could make something fun for customers to play a little in their free time.
Like, "I've got a little time, so I'll play for about five minutes."
Yes. It started by wondering if we could pull together something a little light, like playing three stages in a row and if you mess up once, it's over. But the ones we made in the beginning didn't look like players would proactively approach play it.
The motivation for playing wasn't strong.
Yeah. Meanwhile, we had started making the main stages with the theme of collecting a million coins, when a big problem arose.
No matter how much you played, you couldn't get a million coins! (laughs)
(laughs)
The thought that it would work out somehow, didn't work out at all!
Yeah. You could get them in the tens of thousands, but it was like, "How many times to you need to play the entire game to get one million?"
Then it isn't play, it's work!
When we were worrying over that, we thought about the Coin Rush mode and thought about making it so that players could get lots of coins that way. 
Getting lots of coins is a strong motivation.
Right. We thought that collecting coins would motivate players to play. And we tried making it so that if you grab the top of the goal pole, the number of coins you've collected doubles. It sure feels great to pull that off!
And if you miss, it feels awful. (laughs)
(laughs)
Then one million came into view.
Yeah. We were like, "Somehow, we did it!" (laughs) But then a big problem arose elsewhere. Earlier, we talked about transferring an idea from Super Mario 3D Land to this game.
If you put a block over Mario's head, lots of coins come out.
Yeah. We call it a Gold Block. When we made it and showed it to Tezuka-san, he was super happy and then showed it to Miyamoto-san, but Miyamoto-san said, "I don't like it."
He did?
Yeah! (laughs) He was hung up on why the coins come out.
Ah. His background is in industrial design, so he wondered about the mechanism behind it. He can't accept something if the mechanism behind it isn't clear. An example would be the Propeller Blocks in New Super Mario Bros. Wii.
Yeah. He said he didn't like how you never really understand it—you put this thing you don't really understand on your head, and for no clear reason coins come out.
What did you think when he said he didn't like it, Tezuka-san?
Well, you know…
Like he had his hands on the tea table?
Yeah.
(laughs)
I did think, "Oh, no!"
We hadn't even sorted out the tea table at that point, but it was like the biggest table imaginable had been overturned with a bang!
How did you get it upright again?
Miyamoto-san and Tezuka-san discussed it, and Miyamoto-san said that he hated how he didn't know what he was supposed to do after suddenly getting this block on his head.
It is uncomfortable having your face covered up.
After all, coins have always come out of blocks when you hit them. I thought, "Then why don't we combine it with that action?" In other words, you're pounding away at this block for coins and end up getting it stuck on your head!
Continually hitting the block displays your desire to get coins. 
We tried making it so that the block completely covers your head as an effect of you hitting the block a number of times as if to say "I want coins! I want coins!"
Ah, I see. It seems like there's a certain logic to it! (laughs) It seems.
I explained that to Miyamoto-san, and he said, "Oh, I suppose that's all right." I was surprised at how he accepted it without a fuss. (laughs)
It must have suddenly all come together for him. Although, everyone has already recognized this, but you do sort of have to wonder why hitting a block makes coins come out! (laughs)
(laughs)
Team Up to Strike it Rich
This time, two people can play the main stages together. How did that come about?
For that, too, Tezuka-san said, "I want to do it."
I sound so selfish! (laughs)
(laughs)
But we said, "We don't want to do it! We don't want to do it!" (laughs)
Why not?
It didn't look promising. We had no idea how to make it work, and it would be hard on the designers.
Yeah. For two-player cooperative play, Luigi comes in, so we would have to double every transformation.
Which would likely lead to a longer development time.
Yeah. I told Tezuka-san repeatedly that we couldn't do it in the given timeframe.
Tezuka-san, why did you set your sights on two-player co-op?
It isn't a very clear reason, but playing it that way was fun. 
You actually got to play a two-player version?
Yes. There was one made as an experiment, and playing it was a blast. Technologically, it wasn't impossible. It looked like we could do it if we worked at it. I kept saying, "If we're gonna do this, let's go all out!"
But I suppose Amano-san and Ishikawa-san were like, "Running an experiment and actually perfecting a product are totally different things!"
They are! (firmly)
Were those special stages for two-player co-op?
No. With the previous game, New Super Mario Bros.12 for the Nintendo DS system, they were special stages, but with the Wii game, you could play all the stages of the main game, and we wanted to do the same thing on the Nintendo 3DS as on the Wii. We decided that if we couldn't do that, then we would abandon it. 12. New Super Mario Bros.: An action game released for the Nintendo DS system in May 2006.
That would have an effect on all the main stages made up to that point.
(nodding emphatically) Right.
I can see why you said, "I don't want to do it!" (laughs) What hurdles did you have to cross in achieving two-person gameplay?
In the Wii game, both Mario and Luigi were together on the same screen, and the screen scrolls sideways as if keeping up with the leader.
That's right.
But for the main stages of this game for the Nintendo 3DS, you don't just go to the right. There are a lot of convoluted stages.
So you can't simply have the screen scroll to the right.
Right. And compared to the Wii version, the area that the screen can show is much smaller.
For Wii, we pulled back the camera to show a broader range on the screen.
Yes. We broadened the screen so everyone could easily play, but we couldn't do that with the Nintendo 3DS.
Under those tough circumstances, what made a breakthrough?
We have the game decide whether Mario or Luigi is the current leader, and the camera follows the leader. 
That way the camera can keep up even on meandering stages.
Yes. If the trailing player is too slow, he disappears from the screen and goes into a bubble.
Competing to be leader is fun.
For example, Mario could ground pound Luigi to become the leader, or he could get into a pipe leading to the next area sooner to become the leader.
So you can compete to become leader, get in your opponent's way, or be mischievous with each other. On the other hand, you can enjoy purely cooperative play, such as a good player becoming leader and helping out someone who isn't so good.
Right. And someone who isn't that great may look at someone who is better and make discoveries, like, "Oh, so that's how you do it!"
It can be useful to study by watching a skilled person play.
And this time, an impossible amount of coins appear, so if a single player can't get certain coins, two players playing cooperatively can get them all.
What's more, we made it so that when two people play, you can get twice the number of coins, so I think people will want to play with a partner.
Two players can strike it rich! (laughs)
(laughs)
At first, you didn't want to make it for two players, but once you had, how did it feel?
Fun!
At first, you said you couldn't do it, but you did! (laughs)
Yeah, I guess we did! (laughs)
For the Wii version, everyone could look at the same television screen and go at it, but this time, even though you play in different spots, when one person laughs, the other one does, too.
You play looking at the same image, but it's a really nice feeling when you see someone in a different spot grinning at the same time.
You might shout, "Oh, no! The leader changed!" (laughs) I truly am glad we made it. If I had known it would turn out like this, when Tezuka-san said he wanted to make a two-player game, I would have said, "Let's do it!"
(laughs)
I'm incredibly grateful to Tezuka-san for first suggesting it.
No, I was just being selfish! (laughs)
(laughs) 
That Live Feeling
This time, you tried several new things making use of the system's communicative features.
Yes. Using the StreetPass13 feature, you can exchange Coin Rush mode data. You can play Coin Rush mode repeatedly within a short time and collect more coins the better you know the stage. In some ways, it's like a concentration of typical Super Mario elements. 13. StreetPass: A feature that allows users who enable it to walk around with their Nintendo 3DS system turned on to exchange certain game data with other Nintendo 3DS users whom they pass on the street that also have StreetPass enabled.
That's why you made it so that you compete in number of coins collected, like competing for times in Mario Kart.
You can try to beat the best time of someone you passed in the street, and if you beat them, not only do you get the coins you snagged, but you also get a bonus Crown CoinWhat happens if you lose?
Even if you lose, as long as you clear the three courses, you'll get to keep the amount of coins on their record once. So just by playing the game data you receive by StreetPass, we made it so that you'll get to collect more coins. Even to those who may not be that good with Mario games, may be able to get a whole lot of coins if they can StreetPass with someone who's very good.
StreetPass becomes another way to get a million coins.
You got it! And via the SpotPass14 feature, you can learn how many coins others have collected. 14. SpotPass: A feature in the Nintendo 3DS system that when activated receives various information and content when near a wireless LAN access point.
Different regions and countries can compete with each other.
Like, "Look at how many America has! Japan better not lose!"
Yeah. From now on, we'll be deciding exactly how to present it. I'll consult Tezuka-san again, because I really want to do it.
Another thing still to come is using the communicative functions to offer additional stages. 
Right.
Between me and Mr. Miyamoto, we've been long discussing our position in distributing the paid add-on contents for packaged software. Our conclusion is that we may make that proposal as long as we can establish the structure in which we can ask our customers to pay the fees as the compensation for our creative works. In fact, at one of the internal meeting last year, Mr. Miyamoto picked up the possibility of paid add-on courses' download distribution for a Mario game as an example. I too have expressed our basic idea publicly. However, irrespective of such discussions, Amano-san, you had a different motivation for realizing the add-on courses.
Actually, this isn't the first time for a Super Mario game to have additional stages. I was on the staff for Super Mario Advance 4: Super Mario Bros. 315, and it had a way to add extra stages.
By using the Nintendo e-Reader16, you could play additional stages. 15. Super Mario Advance 4: Super Mario Bros 3: An action game released for the Game Boy Advance system in July 2003.
16. Nintendo e-Reader: A peripheral device for the Game Boy Advance system. By using it to read a two-dimensional barcode on an e-Reader Card, users could enjoy mini-games and unlock new content.
Right. We did that because when it comes to Super Mario games, we tend to make stages that anyone can play, since so many people do.
But when you do that, then players confident in their skill say, "This Super Mario game is lukewarm!"
Exactly. So for Super Mario Advance 4: Super Mario Bros 3, we made really sharp—really difficult—stages to add later. I played them myself and had a ball. I thought, "I wish more people could enjoy this."
At that time, it was necessary to buy the Nintendo e-Reader separately.
For that reason, not as many people as I had hoped enjoyed the additional stages, but personally, I loved them! That was about nine years ago, and ever since then, I've been thinking I want to do that again sometime. 
Additional stages have been on your wish list for nine years now.
Right! They kicked off this time when I got assigned to this Super Mario game for the Nintendo 3DS and said to Tezuka-san, "I definitely want to have additional stages!"
I had also asked Tezuka-san think about digitally distributing additional Mario levels. I felt if we were going to work on paid additional content, it needed to be a game like Mario where anyone could enjoy. Otherwise, it may not be experienced by a lot of people.
Yeah. In case of 2D Mario games, the play contents can be significantly changed by adding new courses. Luckily, because we had opened the Mario Cram School, this time we had about twice the number of staff who were able to design courses. In that sense too, I thought Mario games and the idea of additional courses worked well together. I started by telling the staff early on that this has meaning since it was for Super Mario, so we should come up with something.
Amano-san's desire for eventually being able to make additional levels linked up at the just the right moment with my desire that if we were going to try it, it had to be with with Super Mario, and also with how we were able to make that possible as an organization now because of the Mario Cram School.
We started thinking over various things, and there are a number of ways to add stages. We were able to make a solid Coin Rush mode, so we decided to try it with that.
Why is the Coin Rush mode right for additional stages?
Well, the main stages have a story, so…
The familiar story. (laughs)
Right. Princess Peach gets kidnapped, and you clear the game through a final confrontation with Bowser. If we forced additional stages into that, the whole atmosphere would fall apart.
It wouldn't end on the right note.
Right. But you can play the Coin Rush mode several times in a short time, so it ends perfectly.
We're thinking over that right now but haven't made anything yet.
Right, you haven't started working on it yet.
Yeah. We will, though. We want to hear feedback from people who have played the game before we work on it.
That's right. We'll make the additional stages with an ear out for opinions on what is a hit in the main stages.
That's an important point this time. Miyamoto-san in particular is stressing that if we were to make additional content, it has to feel live. I think he feels that approach is the way to alleviate any opinions like, "Why didn't you include it all from the start?!"
Yeah.
That's why looking at the response from players and releasing additional content in a live fashion is the best way. 
Yes. If we make additional stages, then players who have played them can use StreetPass to share data with people they don't know, leading to further spreading the word.
So it won't end up like nine years ago?
No, I think not! And something I would like to boldly proclaim to people who have said that so far the series hasn't been that difficult is that this time you can play some challenging stages.
But you won't make them all totally demonic, will you?
No… And in addition to listening to the fans and thinking of a bunch of stages, I hope to hold special events that everyone can participate in.
Classic Super Mario
Did you decide on the title pretty easily this time?
Because of the focus on coins, we considered including "Gold" in the title.
New Super Mario Bros. Gold?
Yeah. But it has more stages than the Wii and Nintendo DS games, and a lot of new elements, so it holds plenty of fun as orthodox Super Mario.
In other words, you can enjoy it to the utmost the way you could with other Super Mario games so far.
Right. There are quite a few hidden stages, with special content, so it has the volume of classic Super Mario.
There's plenty there even without Coin Rush mode.
Right, right! Plenty!
So we affixed a "2" to it.
But when we first started making it, we were unsure about whether we could really make a classic Super Mario game. Super Mario 3D Land came out first, which put immense pressure on us.
Super Mario 3D Land also has a lot of classic Super Mario elements in it.
We were like, "We can't be shown up!"
And afterward, the Wii U game will come out, so we're caught in between!
(laughs)
I really thought, "What should we do?!" (laughs)
We wanted to make a solid, classic Super Mario game, so first we reconstructed the Super Mario stage elements, and then made 80 stages—no, more than that—and added in a bunch of the coin elements mentioned by Tezuka-san, and reconstructed the stages yet again…and I think it turned out to be a game that is fun to play.
It feels rewarding because multiple ideas came together, bringing the game to a place that each idea on its own never could have reached.
Yes. This time, I think we reached a higher point than ever before.
You have your own take on it, but did it all go according to plan from your perspective, Tezuka-san?
Perfectly!
(laughs)
Okay, I'd like to finish by asking each of you to recommend something to the fans.
Raccoon Mario shows up this time. We had to show him in 3D, so we had to apply ourselves to all kinds of things like form and animation. I hope people will pay attention to that. 
When Mario changes into Raccoon Mario, he can fly.
Yeah. That can help you clear difficult spots, so beginners can rest easy as they play.
I think it's great that we made collecting coins the theme this time, because in Super Mario so far, you focused on clearing the stages, meaning that if you failed on World 1-3, then nothing you did there was left over.
What remained wasn't data but the invisible value of experience accrued in your fingertips.
This time, however, even if you miss, your coins remain.
Even if you miss, your steady effort piles up in the visible form of coins.
Yes. And this time, in addition to the downloadable courses, a downloadable version17 of the full game, that's the same, full game like the package version, is also available for purchase. If you buy that, you can save the full game on an SD Card and always have it in your Nintendo 3DS. 17. In North America beginning August 19, 2012, New Super Mario Bros. 2 will become available for purchase in its retail package, and a full version of the game will be available as a digital download. You can purchase the digital download version of the full game by purchasing a download card at your participating local retailer or a download code from a participating online retailer and download the game on the Nintendo eShop, accessible on your Nintendo 3DS. The game can also be directly purchased on the Nintendo eShop. Click here for more details regarding how to purchase the downloadable version of the game.
You won't have to switch Game Cards.
And since it's for a handheld, I hope people will always carry around their 3DS and play Super Mario whenever they want, as much as they want, for a long time. 
And last, Tezuka-san.
All right. Super Mario is a game that all kinds of people play—everyone can enjoy them, from people who don't play video games very much to advanced players—and that is the eternal theme of the series. In that respect, I do have a conviction that this time it went very well. For example, even if you aren't that great at video games, if you use White Raccoon Mario, which also appeared in Super Mario 3D Land, you can manage to clear it by yourself.
If you miss five times, you can use White Raccoon Mario.
Right. It makes you invincible, so even beginners will be able to plough ahead. Along the lines of collecting coins, we really deepened the immersive aspect of the game, so it's also a game that skilled players can play for a long time. That makes me think we've come one step closer to the eternal theme. I hope lots of people will play it. 
Now that we've made this game on the heels of Super Mario 3D Land, I feel like the Nintendo 3DS allows a richer Super Mario experience than any handheld ever before.
When Super Mario appeared before for handheld systems, even if they were amazingly polished, it seemed like home consoles were always leading in new innovations, so I believe that many gamers had the impression that home console Super Mario games were the most important.
But in the age of the Nintendo 3DS, and especially with regard to Coin Rush mode, now that you can actually carry the game around with you, I too feel a conviction that many players will realize what it's like to carry Super Mario around in a portable device. 
That's right. I hope people will carry it around.
I hope that people will play Coin Rush mode wherever they like in their free time, and, just when they think they've played it out, download some new stages to continue enjoying it even more.
Yes. I hope people will enjoy it for a long time. But I think we raised the bar with this one. I wonder how we'll manage next time!
We'll have to make the Wii U game even better!
Right.
That's your job, too.
Yeah. Just leave it to me.
Amano-san, you guys have to make the additional stages so you still have a lot to do, but as a mean to put a close to this phase of development - good work so far!
Thanks!
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I like the idea of a Mario cram school. Great level design seems to be an increasingly forgotten art nowadays.
