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Forums - Politics Discussion - "You didn't build that" - Obama

theprof00 on 01 August 2012
sperrico87 said:
In the same way I strongly disagreed last year with Elizabeth Warren when she said something similiar, I also disagree with Obama and his team on this.

Obama and Warren say you need government to have roads and bridges, wireless internet, schools, etc...But who is the government? The government created nothing. All they can do is rob you with a gun, and forcibly transfer wealth from one person to another. The government can come and take money from you, and use it to build a road, that incidentally you can use because you don't have any other choices. But the money had to come from productive effort. Everything the government has done has been by transferring wealth, not by creating it. Governments are always destructive in the creation of wealth.

Except they put a lot of people to work who then buy your products.



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HappySqurriel on 01 August 2012
theprof00 said:
sperrico87 said:
In the same way I strongly disagreed last year with Elizabeth Warren when she said something similiar, I also disagree with Obama and his team on this.

Obama and Warren say you need government to have roads and bridges, wireless internet, schools, etc...But who is the government? The government created nothing. All they can do is rob you with a gun, and forcibly transfer wealth from one person to another. The government can come and take money from you, and use it to build a road, that incidentally you can use because you don't have any other choices. But the money had to come from productive effort. Everything the government has done has been by transferring wealth, not by creating it. Governments are always destructive in the creation of wealth.

Except they put a lot of people to work who then buy your products.


If I take money out of your cash register and then buy a product from you with that money am I a customer or a cost?



theprof00 on 01 August 2012
HappySqurriel said:
theprof00 said:
sperrico87 said:
In the same way I strongly disagreed last year with Elizabeth Warren when she said something similiar, I also disagree with Obama and his team on this.

Obama and Warren say you need government to have roads and bridges, wireless internet, schools, etc...But who is the government? The government created nothing. All they can do is rob you with a gun, and forcibly transfer wealth from one person to another. The government can come and take money from you, and use it to build a road, that incidentally you can use because you don't have any other choices. But the money had to come from productive effort. Everything the government has done has been by transferring wealth, not by creating it. Governments are always destructive in the creation of wealth.

Except they put a lot of people to work who then buy your products.


If I take money out of your cash register and then buy a product from you with that money am I a customer or a cost?

You mean like someone that you hired to do inventory because your store can't run by itself?

Cost. The cost of doing business.



HappySqurriel on 01 August 2012
theprof00 said:
HappySqurriel said:
theprof00 said:
sperrico87 said:
In the same way I strongly disagreed last year with Elizabeth Warren when she said something similiar, I also disagree with Obama and his team on this.

Obama and Warren say you need government to have roads and bridges, wireless internet, schools, etc...But who is the government? The government created nothing. All they can do is rob you with a gun, and forcibly transfer wealth from one person to another. The government can come and take money from you, and use it to build a road, that incidentally you can use because you don't have any other choices. But the money had to come from productive effort. Everything the government has done has been by transferring wealth, not by creating it. Governments are always destructive in the creation of wealth.

Except they put a lot of people to work who then buy your products.


If I take money out of your cash register and then buy a product from you with that money am I a customer or a cost?

You mean like someone that you hired to do inventory because your store can't run by itself?

Cost. The cost of doing business.

I think you missed the point ...

If a theif comes into McDonalds, empties the cash-register and then uses some of that money to buy a meal deal you're worse off.

If the government taxes you excessively and then (directly or indirectly) some of that money is used to buy something from you you're still worse off.

 

The only time you're better off for having the government involved is if you're being taxed for them to provide something that can not be provided by the private sector in a cost effective way.



theprof00 on 01 August 2012
HappySqurriel said:
theprof00 said:
HappySqurriel said:
theprof00 said:
sperrico87 said:
In the same way I strongly disagreed last year with Elizabeth Warren when she said something similiar, I also disagree with Obama and his team on this.

Obama and Warren say you need government to have roads and bridges, wireless internet, schools, etc...But who is the government? The government created nothing. All they can do is rob you with a gun, and forcibly transfer wealth from one person to another. The government can come and take money from you, and use it to build a road, that incidentally you can use because you don't have any other choices. But the money had to come from productive effort. Everything the government has done has been by transferring wealth, not by creating it. Governments are always destructive in the creation of wealth.

Except they put a lot of people to work who then buy your products.


If I take money out of your cash register and then buy a product from you with that money am I a customer or a cost?

You mean like someone that you hired to do inventory because your store can't run by itself?

Cost. The cost of doing business.

I think you missed the point ...

If a theif comes into McDonalds, empties the cash-register and then uses some of that money to buy a meal deal you're worse off.

If the government taxes you excessively and then (directly or indirectly) some of that money is used to buy something from you you're still worse off.

 

The only time you're better off for having the government involved is if you're being taxed for them to provide something that can not be provided by the private sector in a cost effective way.

I think you made a great analogy and are trying to back out of it because you don't like that it goes against your argument.

That is absolutely typical of you guys.

You keep depending on using the word thief, but the employees you pay to run the place get paid, and often then invest back into the company through 401ks and buying the food themselves.

Similarly, having good conditioned roads helps bring both people to you, and for you to ship.



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HappySqurriel on 01 August 2012
theprof00 said:

I think you made a great analogy and are trying to back out of it because you don't like that it goes against your argument.

That is absolutely typical of you guys.

You keep depending on using the word thief, but the employees you pay to run the place get paid, and often then invest back into the company through 401ks and buying the food themselves.

Similarly, having good conditioned roads helps bring both people to you, and for you to ship.

So what benefit does Welfare have? What benefit do "green energy" subsidies (that have the net effect of increasing your taxes and energy bills) have?

Edit: And can you legitimately call the Bank or GM bailouts as anything besides theft of taxpayer money to pay special interest groups?



Kasz216 on 01 August 2012
theprof00 said:
KAsz what sort of critical thinking should I employ when Romney says, "this [mandate] can absolutely be done on a national level", several years ago?


Also check the olympic standings;
1 United States 10 8 7 25
2 China 13 6 4 23
3 Japan 1 4 8 13
4 France 4 3 4 11
5 Germany 3 5 1 9

Now check GDP
1 United States 14,447,100
2 China, People's Republic of 5,739,358
3 Japan 5,458,873
4 Germany 3,280,334
5 France 2,559,850

First off... you do know that Obamacare and Romneycare are pretty different right?  About 2,000 pages worth of different.

Though outside that... that it could work nationally.   No where in his arguement... you know, if you read it, says it couldn't.

It says it shouldn't.


As for the second point... I don't really see your point.  

 

GDP and Medals line up pretty good... this year.   Great, one... as of yet uncompleted data point.

 

Though yeah, you do need to be a pretty rich country to do well in the olympics.   Modern sports require all kinds of expensive ass treatments.   Your normal oympic athelte in the US is going to an olympic training center, has a nutritonist, personal trainer...

these people get all the money in the world thrown at them.

 

For the heck of it, i'm going to spend about 2 minutes doing what you should have done before posting that.

 

2008 Olympics.

1. China

2. USA

3. Russia

4. Great Britian

5. Germany

 

2008 GDP

1. USA

2. Japan (8th in medals)

3.  China

4. Germany

5. France (10th in medals)



Kasz216 on 01 August 2012
theprof00 said:
HappySqurriel said:
theprof00 said:
HappySqurriel said:
theprof00 said:
sperrico87 said:
In the same way I strongly disagreed last year with Elizabeth Warren when she said something similiar, I also disagree with Obama and his team on this.

Obama and Warren say you need government to have roads and bridges, wireless internet, schools, etc...But who is the government? The government created nothing. All they can do is rob you with a gun, and forcibly transfer wealth from one person to another. The government can come and take money from you, and use it to build a road, that incidentally you can use because you don't have any other choices. But the money had to come from productive effort. Everything the government has done has been by transferring wealth, not by creating it. Governments are always destructive in the creation of wealth.

Except they put a lot of people to work who then buy your products.


If I take money out of your cash register and then buy a product from you with that money am I a customer or a cost?

You mean like someone that you hired to do inventory because your store can't run by itself?

Cost. The cost of doing business.

I think you missed the point ...

If a theif comes into McDonalds, empties the cash-register and then uses some of that money to buy a meal deal you're worse off.

If the government taxes you excessively and then (directly or indirectly) some of that money is used to buy something from you you're still worse off.

 

The only time you're better off for having the government involved is if you're being taxed for them to provide something that can not be provided by the private sector in a cost effective way.

I think you made a great analogy and are trying to back out of it because you don't like that it goes against your argument.

That is absolutely typical of you guys.

You keep depending on using the word thief, but the employees you pay to run the place get paid, and often then invest back into the company through 401ks and buying the food themselves.

Similarly, having good conditioned roads helps bring both people to you, and for you to ship.

No... you just kinda failed at reading comprehension there and read into it what you wanted by throwing in a nonrelated factor.



Kasz216 on 01 August 2012

Oh, and if you want to look at further back.

2004
1) US
2) China
3) Russia
4) Australia
5) Japan
vs
1) US
2) Japan
3) Germany (6th)
4) France (7th)
5) China


2000
1) USA
2) Russia
3) China
4) Australia
5) Germany
GDP
1) USA
2) Japan (15th)!
3)Germany
4) United Kingdoms (10th!)
5) France (6th)



theprof00 on 01 August 2012

Whoa, easy girl.
all im implying is that not only are you pointing the finger at others for your own faults, but that providing you with great answers simply results in missing the point.
It's sad when domething thar should have resulted in you saying "i misworded that", changes to "you missed the point".
It not only explains to me that you're incapable of seeing contrary information to your own neliefs but that how the other person is somehow misguided for saying it

Anyhoo, that then asks me whether or not i answer seriously to your followup barrage of. Surefire victory topics.
welfare was approved by both side every dollar results in a dollar forty return and fluidity in the market.
bailing out the companies saved thoudands of jobs and ford is like the number one auto maker now. Theyre killing it.