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Forums - Gaming - Sony can wait, but Microsoft must announce a new console

theRepublic on 08 July 2012
Mnementh said:
d21lewis said:
Nintendo had to go ahead and release the Wii U because their tech was way outdated. Personally, I think the Wii U should have been released a while back.
  

I think this was the plan. It seems so stupid to announce a new console at E3 LAST YEAR and not bringing it to shelves at the following christmas. I think the release of the WiiU was planned last year. But after the mediocre reception the announcement got, they decided to get back to the design table and work on the console a bit more.

The Wii was announced at E3 2005.  It was in playable form at E3 2006, and then released later that year.  Same with the PS3.

It is not unusual for a console to be at two E3 events before release.



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Mr Puggsly on 08 July 2012
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I agree the disc swap thing was annoying in ME2 and 3. But what bothers me most is I still have to swap discs even if both discs are installed on the hard drive. I imagine MS is mostly to blame for that.

The 360 version of Witcher 2 is the PC game with all the extras and they did it with two discs. I suppose there could have been MORE extras on a Blu Ray. But there could have also been more on the 360 if they used 3 discs I suppose. Not a very good argument.

Either way, Sony didn't prove Blu Ray was essential this gen. Worst of all, the discs have a ton of storage but the console still requires a hard drive. Which many games use for required installs.


Sony didnt prove that DVD's were useless, but they proved that they were the next essential step before going digital. Blu Rays hold quite a bit of space, but when it comes to evolving into the full-on digital age, because of how large games are getting, you will need a console that has at least 1 TB in the HDD. After watching Blu Ray, I can't go back to normal DVD's when watching movies either. The PS3's HD would fill up faster on manditory installs because of the amount of large games the PS3 has and demands compared to the 360 as well. Games made specifically for the 360 generally don't go beyond one disc, but Lost Odyssey was one that I believe took four discs.

Bluray seems like the logical choice for a new platform, but its not essential at all. The Wii U for example won't be using Bluray. Bluray movie support also isn't a big draw. First of all, physical movie sales are down significantly thanks to piracy and those dollar rental machines. Those who actually care about watching Blurays can buy a cheap player for like $60 nowadays. They will get even cheaper in the coming years.

So it would be a logical move for the next Xbox to use Bluray since its becoming the standard and the hardware is now cheap. But its not essential.

 

We won't need 1 TB hard drives next gen. On average, next gen games probably won't be much bigger than current gen games. The reason some games nowadays are so big is because of HD video.

The only reason PS3 games have mandatory install is because the Bluray player in PS3 reads slow. If PS4 games still has required installs, the installs aren't going to be much bigger. Because most of the data generally stays on the disc.

Lost Odyssey is an exmple of a game that took many discs because of FMVs.



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Stinky on 09 July 2012

One thing to consider is that it would be possible for MS to drop optical media publishing, even now on the xbox 360. Full games are downloadable and fully playable from a USB flash drive, and by the end of next year the price of 16GB flash will be trivial. One could imagine going to a store with a flash drive, downloading the game there and a code and heading home. Games could be sold preloaded on flash too.

Not a totally outlandish proposition.



mor2 on 09 July 2012

"Sony can wait, but Microsoft must announce a new console"

I actually think its the other way around, even though IMO sony is much stronger in terms of core gaming, it is in a disadvantage compared to MS in terms of the next gen console, they need to get a jump start on MS to have a chance.



mor2 on 09 July 2012
Stinky said:
One thing to consider is that it would be possible for MS to drop optical media publishing, even now on the xbox 360. Full games are downloadable and fully playable from a USB flash drive, and by the end of next year the price of 16GB flash will be trivial. One could imagine going to a store with a flash drive, downloading the game there and a code and heading home. Games could be sold preloaded on flash too.

Not a totally outlandish proposition.


I think it is, why would you replace a 0.01$ for 10$ media? the only reason for them todo so would be if they sell you "catridges" i.e. changed flash drives to fight piracy.



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mor2 on 09 July 2012
Stinky said:
While Blu-Ray is a capacious format, the loading and seek speed as implemented on the PS3 is decidedly glacial. As I understand it, some devs duplicate assets across the disc filesystem to overcome seek issues, along with mandatory installs. Whereas the DVD as implemented on the 360 is only marginally slower than loading from an HD install of the same image.

So it's not so cut and dried, as the extra work involved to get acceptable speed from PS3 discs would likely be larger than the trivial cost of an extra DVD press thrown into the existing package..

That cant be right, iirc :
DVDs has up to x50 multiplier of 150kbps which is ~7.5Mbps
Blu-ray has upto x12 multiplier of 36Mbps which is 432Mbps
while Sata Drives has upto x3 "multiplier" ( sata 1,2,3) of 1.5GB

So even the oldest SATA HD will be 3 times faster than newest Blu-ray drive ...



Stinky on 09 July 2012
mor2 said:
Stinky said:
One thing to consider is that it would be possible for MS to drop optical media publishing, even now on the xbox 360. Full games are downloadable and fully playable from a USB flash drive, and by the end of next year the price of 16GB flash will be trivial. One could imagine going to a store with a flash drive, downloading the game there and a code and heading home. Games could be sold preloaded on flash too.

Not a totally outlandish proposition.


I think it is, why would you replace a 0.01$ for 10$ media? the only reason for them todo so would be if they sell you "catridges" i.e. changed flash drives to fight piracy.


Aside from the obvious cartridge analogy and economies of scale, USB flash drives are reusable. Copy the game to internal storage, flash drive is free to copy again.



Stinky on 09 July 2012
mor2 said:
Stinky said:
While Blu-Ray is a capacious format, the loading and seek speed as implemented on the PS3 is decidedly glacial. As I understand it, some devs duplicate assets across the disc filesystem to overcome seek issues, along with mandatory installs. Whereas the DVD as implemented on the 360 is only marginally slower than loading from an HD install of the same image.

So it's not so cut and dried, as the extra work involved to get acceptable speed from PS3 discs would likely be larger than the trivial cost of an extra DVD press thrown into the existing package..

That cant be right, iirc :
DVDs has up to x50 multiplier of 150kbps which is ~7.5Mbps
Blu-ray has upto x12 multiplier of 36Mbps which is 432Mbps
while Sata Drives has upto x3 "multiplier" ( sata 1,2,3) of 1.5GB

So even the oldest SATA HD will be 3 times faster than newest Blu-ray drive ...

HDD throughput isn't theoritical SATA throughput. I've played 360 games both from DVD and HD install and while the HD is clearly faster, it's not so bad on DVD, aside from the outrageous amount of noise. Regardless xbox' DVD loads quickly, the PS3 blu-ray does not, which was the point.



Simulacrum on 09 July 2012

In terms of sales, Ps3 never took the win with blu-rayyberomfgdvdissoold50gbvs8gblolxboxnoobs, for some reason...So no, I think it can wait, but it doesn't really have anymore new games coming to it...



 

 

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NintendoPie on 09 July 2012

Microsoft should probably pull a little more money out of their 360 as they are still in the read.

If it's possible I think it should get a Price Cut for the Holiday, they'll make some more money.
NexBox should come out Holiday or Fall next year.