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Forums - Gaming Discussion - European Union court: Consumers have the right to re-sell their Digitally Distributed games

i wonder what is with the codes in retail games i have to use to play some parts of the games like we get nowadays to prevent the used market. since i buy the game and it is my own game int he future doesn't that mean they can't make these codes and have to let me sell the whole game to someone who has then the right to play the same game and not to pay 10 bucks to the publisher to get a new code for some parts of the game? would be the same logic, i own it after i used the code so it is my right to sell it to someone



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I can, I call BS on this ruling, first all it says that if the publishers 'sell' they have to allow resale. So if they just hit the find/replace key and switch all occurances of 'sale' to 'rent' in all of their ELUA's, it will render this ruling meaningless, sure there will be some very vocal outcry at first, but the vast majority will keep hitting the agree button(me included) - nothing changed.


Second, I say this BS, because this can be sustainable, its just to ease to exploit. I'll buy one game and after I am done, I'll just keep sharing(sale/resale) the steam key with ALL my friends, I can already see facebook group of thousand that do the same, because why pay when you can get it for free and the most ironic part, we can use steam own social system to share those keys.

In fact I can start a company that helps sharing keys, lets call it digital gamefly, unlike steam I dont have to pay for almost anything not server hosting, not bandwidth for distribution, only help you guys sell/resale games. Even for 1$ a year, I can offer you any amount* of games you want and still make millions, which will lead to steam and every major developer going bankrupt.(and please dont give me the honnor system BS).

So what will happen, that companies will get creative with "online passes", for starters steam can start charging you for distribution(per PC pass?) or the more likely recourse that they'll, chalange this rlling in court for years and rush toward cloud gaming, going the games as service instead of product way, like MMO's, which is where the whole industry is rushing i.e. we are fucked.


I dont know, sometimes people dont think before they do, the idea of resaleing games is great on the paper, but ever since we tried to get "socialism" to gaming, we just got mounting walls of DRM, various passes and less control over our products.



@mor2

On Steam once a key has been used it can not be used a second time, there are quite a few online stores that sell keys for games. And once you sell one of your games to someone you no longer have access to download or play it. What is the trouble understanding that?



the whole point of this ruling that steam will have to make due for a way to allow me to resale my game, so less taking it literally and more reading between the lines...

 

EDIT: unless what you mean is that steam already has a "loop hole" then it means that this rulling already is meaningless in regard to digtial disterbutors. In either case Its what I am arguing that not steam not devs can sustain this and will(or already are?) find away around this.



mor2 said:

the whole point of this ruling that steam will have to make due for a way to allow me to resale my game, so less taking it literally and more reading between the lines...

Steam can already achieve this:

Allow its users to trade games they own with the same method they use to trade gifts, the money either being transfered to Steam Wallet or directly to a bank account.

Or simply allow users to trade games just like gifts and how the payment is made is of no concern to Steam, users having to use sites like eBay or PayPal to transfer money from one to the other.

Edit: There is also a digital distribution site that allows you to trade-in a game you bought, it is called Green Man Gaming. Not the same as reselling a game, but it is close.



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Publishers could love it. Like Steam, sell your license and Steam will take 15% of the money. That is something you don't see with used copies..



 

Lol... I see monthly subscriptions. And, how will the prices work on re-sale? Well, I see it now... Europe will have less digital games...

You'll probably have to pay just to browse the stores, and pay a subscription to play games. Or, if this turns out to be more money than it's worth, no digital games. Nothing good's going to come from this.



Burning Typhoon said:
Lol... I see monthly subscriptions. And, how will the prices work on re-sale? Well, I see it now... Europe will have less digital games...

You'll probably have to pay just to browse the stores, and pay a subscription to play games. Or, if this turns out to be more money than it's worth, no digital games. Nothing good's going to come from this.

Abandoning a market of millions of customers, brilliant business strategy you got there.



NJ5 said:
SamuelRSmith said:

Depends.

If, when you exchange the property, you sign a contract stating that you must use the property in a certain way, then you must stick to that contract.

Also, if you buy a license (which most software is sold as), the software is still not your property. You may be able to sell the license, unless it is part of the agreement that you signed (clicking I Agree, or whatever).


You can't sign your rights away in a contract (even if you do so willingly and voluntarily). Companies like to pretend that what they write in these "license agreements" is gospel, but it's only gospel as far as it doesn't contradict the law.

First and foremost, you do not have a right to a specific piece of property, so you're not selling away anything. You have the right to obtain property, and you can't alleviate that through contract, but this is something different. This is how you use a specific piece of property, which, obviously must not contradict the law.

I'm saying this new law diminishes property rights because it reduces the amount of control that a producer has over their own property. Just because a game exists, and you have money, does not entitle you to that game. There must be a willing transaction, and the producer may have certain stipulations which they may want to enforce via contract. A law like the one being discussed reduces the stipulations that property owners can put on their property, and, thus, damages property rights.

To give the usual example if I sign a contract saying that you will torture me, that doesn't cease my right to live without being harmed by you.

I don't see the distinction between buying a "software" and a "license". Either I can re-sell the "software" to someone else or I can sell the "license". The effect is the same, after I sell it I can't use it and the other person can.

When you buy a piece of property, you own the property. When you buy a license, you do not. That's the distrinction.

When you buy a piece of property, you may sign a contract specifying what you can and can't do with the property (like, for example, when you buy a house in a gated community, they might have certain rules about noise pollution, pets, whatever), but the property is still yours. When you buy a license you're effectively buying access to somebody else's property. If the license states that it is non-transferable, then it is not transferable.

Obviously, the European Court (or whatever its proper name is) disagrees with me here, and is thinking about "consumer rights" (bollocks). Unfortunately, like many of the European political elite, they seem to forget that most consumers are also producers. So, when you damage producer rights, you're also indirectly damaging consumer rights. These sorts of deals should just be left to the market, with so many competing publishers, developers, distributors, alternatives, the markets will find the right balance between what's good for the particular producer, and what's good for the particular consumer.





Rhonin the wizard said:

Steam can already achieve this:

...

Edit: There is also a digital distribution site that allows you to trade-in a game you bought, it is called Green Man Gaming. Not the same as reselling a game, but it is close.

The question was never about if they can do it technologicly but fiscally, they and publishers make money from sales, not resales and if they allow it they'll go bankrupt, because everyone will just buy and trade(buy/sell) the games.(or wose see my previous post, the long one), which is why you are going to see either ELUA changes, new rules or more "online passes" and/or move to cloud gaming.

As for the green man gaming, there is always small time disterbutors who can make it work (see the no DRM ones), but globally it has been proven time after time again that the honor system dont work.