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Forums - Politics - Do You think Obama's going to Be Impeached?

Kasz216 on 22 June 2012
easyrider said:
Kasz216 said:
spaceguy said:
Kasz216 said:
spaceguy said:
Kasz216 said:
Flanneryaug said:
Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:
I wouldn't put it past the Republicans. They tried it with Clinton, and that was only a midterm election year, having him under impeachment would be a good way to throw the election in their favor, whether or not he or Holder acted wrongly.

Whether or not he acted wrongly?  Congress demanded files from the attorney general.

He refused.

That's wrong, and it's been grounds for contempt of congress on both sides of the aisle and has been used by both sides... well the last two presidents.

Not that it amounts to anything... since you know.  the discetion to prosecute Eric Holder would fall to the Attorney General.  Seems like somebody missed a loophole on that one...

Also... impeachment hearings HELPED clinton and boosted his approval rating, not sure why you'd think this would be any different.

You need to do some research. They demanded documents from Eric Holder that he would have to break the law to give to them. Also, the documents that they want have nothing to do with the death of the agent, and are from after his death. Also, why havent they brought in the former Attorney General that actually started this program? It is clearly political.

No he wouldn't....

it's actually the exact opposite.

Congress has a right to any documents it supeonas.

Obama used exectuive priveledge to cover Holders ass after he refused to give up the information in the first place... because it'd be an embarrsing scandal that could hurt him politically.

Also.  Operation Fast and Furious began in 2009.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal#2009.E2.80.932011:_Operation_Fast_and_Furious

Actually it was started by bush continued by obama. So really you are right and wrong at the same time.

Bush was President in 2009?

That's when Fast and Furious started.


"Gunwalking" programs started under Bush.  Fast and Furious didn't.

The main issue with Fast and Furious was that the let the illegal guns float around to try and follow them back to "main people".

The plan under Bush, Wide Receiver... what would happen is the ATF would sell guns to straw sellers, and notify the Mexican police where the straw sellers were, then bust the straw sellers and buyers at the very first time they did something illegal.

 

While under Obama they started a new plan.  F&F.  Here they planned to target the whole system instead of just taking out the buyers like under Bush.   So they sold the weapons to straw sellers... then let the straw sellers sell the guns illegally, rather then having the mexican government bust the people buying the guns and making sure the guns never got in the gangs hands.  They kept the sales going, trying to get guns throught the network... as people were being killed by those very guns.

To explain the main difference between the Bush program and the Obama one... i'll qoute wikipedia.

"Their standard Project Gunrunner training was to follow the straw purchasers to the hand-off to the cartel buyers, then arrest both parties and seize the guns. They watched guns being bought illegally and stashed on a daily basis, while their supervisors, including David Voth and Hope MacAllister, prevented the agents from intervening"

Dude you are so hell bent on republicans value's it's S--k.  I've told you what I thought of it in the past and it still stands.


Dude, don't get made because you were wrong AGAIN and have no factual basis for backing up "your side" outside of claiming some fictional bias.  ( I mean, trying to defelect things to an economic discussion about... Ireland? seriously?)


I'd say if anything i'd say the Obama administrations exceution of it was MORE republican.  It doesn't change the fact that this shit was all on them.

Which is my biggest problem with obama.  It's clear he doesn't give a fuck and will kill Americans at will, violate other countries soverignty and violate peoples human rights.  It's the same issues i had with Bush.  Except for the first one.   He never (to my knowledge) approved the direct assassnation of a US citizen without trial.

Your blind if you can't see the difference between...

"Working with the mexicans and busting people criminals as soon as they buy guns."

versus

"Don't tell the mexicans, and let the guns circulate and be used in crimes to kill people so we can eventually bust up the entire network.


kasz the fact that you are even making a point abou this shows your a f-cking idiot. You are always wrong yet you call out someone else. I don't care if they ban me, Someone has to say it. YOUR A FUCKING IDIOT.


How am I wrong...?  Like I said the last time we had an arguement... I have demonstratable proof that I'm correct.  If you want to disagree... provide evidence rather then irrational lashing out.

Blind devotion like yours is why Obama gets away with acting like more of a Neoconservative then Bush ever was.

If Bush or Reagan i'm sure your opinion would magically be flipped.

Mine wouldn't.

 

I could list about 2 dozen things wrong Bush did.

Starting with the Patriot Act, War in Iraq, Way the war in Afghanistan was handled and the Stem cell research Ban.



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Barozi on 22 June 2012

At least you, Kasz ,should know how to cut down quote trees.



spaceguy on 22 June 2012
Kasz216 said:
easyrider said:


kasz the fact that you are even making a point abou this shows your a f-cking idiot. You are always wrong yet you call out someone else. I don't care if they ban me, Someone has to say it. YOUR A FUCKING IDIOT.


How am I wrong...?  Like I said the last time we had an arguement... I have demonstratable proof that I'm correct.  If you want to disagree... provide evidence rather then irrational lashing out.

Blind devotion like yours is why Obama gets away with acting like more of a Neoconservative then Bush ever was.

If Bush or Reagan i'm sure your opinion would magically be flipped.

Mine wouldn't.

 

I could list about 2 dozen things wrong Bush did.

Starting with the Patriot Act, War in Iraq, Way the war in Afghanistan was handled and the Stem cell research Ban.


I agree with you on Obama, however mitt is worse. I would vote Rocky Anderson but that would be like voting for romney. However yes Obama I see as a Moderate Republican. The point of this being a story is a joke to me.  Bush and Obama had about as much in this as anyone else it humors me.

You forgot bush deregulated and cut tax's in a time of war. there your go the list is finished.

I actually agee with you on something. HOLY SH_T. Accept you seem to think I agree with corporate Democrate's. No I do not. This story just a cry for help from the right.



badgenome on 22 June 2012
Adinnieken said:

I would argue, the only thing Obama did was approve the launch of a missile from a Predator drone at a specific target.  Unfortunately, an American citizen, who was in, on, or near the target was accidentally killed in the military operation.

If an American citizen is shot and killed on the field of battle while fighting for the enemy, is that a crime?

You'd be hilariously wrong, then, because the American citizen WAS the target. And he was a not a combatant.



badgenome on 22 June 2012
Dodece said:
Congress needs evidence that a crime has been committed, and frankly screwing up on the job isn't necessarily a crime. Yes it may have been tragic, but there is no obvious intent. It isn't like the President told Holder to go give guns to drug cartels so they can murder American citizens. It was a colossal fuck up is all.

Except for the pesky little fact that congressional oversight committees aren't limited to investigating crimes, but also waste and acts of stunning incompetence. Like Fast and Furious. And Holder may well have committed a crime by lying about what he knew about Fast and Furious and when he knew it. Ironically, Holder's justice department just tried to nail Roger Clemens to the wall for supposedly doing exactly what Holder appears to be doing right now: obstructing and lying to Congress.



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Kasz216 on 22 June 2012
spaceguy said:


I agree with you on Obama, however mitt is worse. I would vote Rocky Anderson but that would be like voting for romney. However yes Obama I see as a Moderate Republican. The point of this being a story is a joke to me.  Bush and Obama had about as much in this as anyone else it humors me.


I actually think Mitt Romeny is less republican.  At least in the ways Obama is a republican... which just happen to be the ways Republicans annoy me.

That is violation of civil rights and violation of other countries soverign rights.

Also, if Obama didn't know the US government was going to be distributing guns to be spread throught mexico, i'd think that is a BIG problem.

The president has to know when guns are being sold to criminals and the enemies of an allied nation.  If it was just a simple sting operation like Bush, and the interceptions just failed that's one thing. (that should immediatly be reported to the president.)

This however... was everything going to plan.  The only reason it ever came to light is because it killed a border patrol guard and it became political.

If Obama and Holder didn't know (which is hard to tell with Obama blocking the release of those documents now) then the leaders responsible for this should be arrested and put on trail.



spaceguy on 22 June 2012
Kasz216 said:
spaceguy said:
 


I agree with you on Obama, however mitt is worse. I would vote Rocky Anderson but that would be like voting for romney. However yes Obama I see as a Moderate Republican. The point of this being a story is a joke to me.  Bush and Obama had about as much in this as anyone else it humors me.


I actually think Mitt Romeny is less republican.  At least in the ways Obama is a republican... which just happen to be the ways Republicans annoy me.

That is violation of civil rights and violation of other countries soverign rights.

Also, if Obama didn't know the US government was going to be distributing guns to be spread throught mexico, i'd think that is a BIG problem.

The president has to know when guns are being sold to criminals and the enemies of an allied nation.  If it was just a simple sting operation like Bush, and the interceptions just failed that's one thing. (that should immediatly be reported to the president.)

This however... was everything going to plan.  The only reason it ever came to light is because it killed a border patrol guard and it became political.

If Obama and Holder didn't know (which is hard to tell with Obama blocking the release of those documents now) then the leaders responsible for this should be arrested and put on trail.

tell you what, end the war on weed and the whole problem goes away. The war is mess. C'mon weed. I can't smoke but really, wish I could but I got a good job and that is way more important. Has made me drink a lot more.

however colorado has 61% favorability of legalizing it. that is a landslide.



Kasz216 on 22 June 2012
spaceguy said:
Kasz216 said:
spaceguy said:
 


I agree with you on Obama, however mitt is worse. I would vote Rocky Anderson but that would be like voting for romney. However yes Obama I see as a Moderate Republican. The point of this being a story is a joke to me.  Bush and Obama had about as much in this as anyone else it humors me.


I actually think Mitt Romeny is less republican.  At least in the ways Obama is a republican... which just happen to be the ways Republicans annoy me.

That is violation of civil rights and violation of other countries soverign rights.

Also, if Obama didn't know the US government was going to be distributing guns to be spread throught mexico, i'd think that is a BIG problem.

The president has to know when guns are being sold to criminals and the enemies of an allied nation.  If it was just a simple sting operation like Bush, and the interceptions just failed that's one thing. (that should immediatly be reported to the president.)

This however... was everything going to plan.  The only reason it ever came to light is because it killed a border patrol guard and it became political.

If Obama and Holder didn't know (which is hard to tell with Obama blocking the release of those documents now) then the leaders responsible for this should be arrested and put on trail.

tell you what, end the war on weed and the whole problem goes away. The war is mess. C'mon weed. I can't smoke but really, wish I could but I got a good job and that is way more important. Has made me drink a lot more.


I don't disagree on ended the war on Marijuna.  I don't think that'd solve the problem because of the other hard drugs but I do think it should be legal.

Legalizing it though I don't think would change most companies drug policy laws.

The main problem with it is that unlike beer, you can't really test to see if someone is high on weed at that moment.

So you'd have no idea if somebody was high on the job or not outside of just a vague judgement call.


Now if you leagalized all the hard drugs, that MIGHT do it... but people would have to be ok with the fact that a hit of cocaine isn't going to cost significantly more then a candy bar.

 

I doubt weed will ever be legal though.  Reason is... that nickname.  It's way to easy to grow... there's not much profit in it being legal.



spaceguy on 22 June 2012
Kasz216 said:
spaceguy said:
Kasz216 said:
spaceguy said:
 


I agree with you on Obama, however mitt is worse. I would vote Rocky Anderson but that would be like voting for romney. However yes Obama I see as a Moderate Republican. The point of this being a story is a joke to me.  Bush and Obama had about as much in this as anyone else it humors me.


I actually think Mitt Romeny is less republican.  At least in the ways Obama is a republican... which just happen to be the ways Republicans annoy me.

That is violation of civil rights and violation of other countries soverign rights.

Also, if Obama didn't know the US government was going to be distributing guns to be spread throught mexico, i'd think that is a BIG problem.

The president has to know when guns are being sold to criminals and the enemies of an allied nation.  If it was just a simple sting operation like Bush, and the interceptions just failed that's one thing. (that should immediatly be reported to the president.)

This however... was everything going to plan.  The only reason it ever came to light is because it killed a border patrol guard and it became political.

If Obama and Holder didn't know (which is hard to tell with Obama blocking the release of those documents now) then the leaders responsible for this should be arrested and put on trail.

tell you what, end the war on weed and the whole problem goes away. The war is mess. C'mon weed. I can't smoke but really, wish I could but I got a good job and that is way more important. Has made me drink a lot more.


I don't disagree on ended the war on Marijuna.  I don't think that'd solve the problem because of the other hard drugs but I do think it should be legal.

Legalizing it though I don't think would change most companies drug policy laws.

The main problem with it is that unlike beer, you can't really test to see if someone is high on weed at that moment.

So you'd have no idea if somebody was high on the job or not outside of just a vague judgement call.


Now if you leagalized all the hard drugs, that MIGHT do it... but people would have to be ok with the fact that a hit of cocaine isn't going to cost significantly more then a candy bar.

you actually can test weed with mouth swabs. It test up to like 5 hours or so.  I think you legalize all of it and regulate the harder drugs a lot harder. This takes a lot of the power out of the kingpins hands. Yes there is always going to be someone but you take 90-95% of there money.



Kasz216 on 22 June 2012
spaceguy said:
Kasz216 said:
spaceguy said:
Kasz216 said:
spaceguy said:
 


I agree with you on Obama, however mitt is worse. I would vote Rocky Anderson but that would be like voting for romney. However yes Obama I see as a Moderate Republican. The point of this being a story is a joke to me.  Bush and Obama had about as much in this as anyone else it humors me.


I actually think Mitt Romeny is less republican.  At least in the ways Obama is a republican... which just happen to be the ways Republicans annoy me.

That is violation of civil rights and violation of other countries soverign rights.

Also, if Obama didn't know the US government was going to be distributing guns to be spread throught mexico, i'd think that is a BIG problem.

The president has to know when guns are being sold to criminals and the enemies of an allied nation.  If it was just a simple sting operation like Bush, and the interceptions just failed that's one thing. (that should immediatly be reported to the president.)

This however... was everything going to plan.  The only reason it ever came to light is because it killed a border patrol guard and it became political.

If Obama and Holder didn't know (which is hard to tell with Obama blocking the release of those documents now) then the leaders responsible for this should be arrested and put on trail.

tell you what, end the war on weed and the whole problem goes away. The war is mess. C'mon weed. I can't smoke but really, wish I could but I got a good job and that is way more important. Has made me drink a lot more.


I don't disagree on ended the war on Marijuna.  I don't think that'd solve the problem because of the other hard drugs but I do think it should be legal.

Legalizing it though I don't think would change most companies drug policy laws.

The main problem with it is that unlike beer, you can't really test to see if someone is high on weed at that moment.

So you'd have no idea if somebody was high on the job or not outside of just a vague judgement call.


Now if you leagalized all the hard drugs, that MIGHT do it... but people would have to be ok with the fact that a hit of cocaine isn't going to cost significantly more then a candy bar.

you actually can test weed with mouth swabs. It test up to like 5 hours or so.  I think you legalize all of it and regulate the harder drugs a lot harder.


Didn't know that... cool.  Maybe it would change company policies then.  Obama's regression on his Pot stance is one of my bigger issues with him.

Though I think it's kind of a stupid thing to do, the government shouldn't be regulating things people do for fun because it's "kind of stupid".  I mean, so's drinking, eating meat and dozens of other things.