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Forums - Sony Discussion - Discussing PS4 hardware and manufacturing price

kowenicki said:
torok said:


Actually, people forget that Sony has a large cash reserve (around US$ 170 Billions). They were immensely profitable in 90's-early 2000's. They have a lot of money to burn and will do what they think that will lead to a return to profitability. If they believe that it will be a cheaper console, then it'll be this way. If thet think that it'll be a US$ 600 beast, then it'll be this way.

Anyway, I believe that they will prefer a higher mid-end aproach. Powerfull but not too expensive.

Utter garbage. Where do some of you pull this rubbish from? $170bn in cash, wtf?

Sony has about $7bn in cash, the rest is in long term investments, building, inventory and machinery. 

TOTAL assets are $161bn

TOTAL liabilities are $137bn

Not much room there any more.

So you see they dont have a lot of money to burn, infact if they repeat the last 3 years in the next 3 years (I dont think they will by the way) then they wouldnt exist any more. 

Are people this oblivious to the real situation?  A companies value doesnt just collapse for no reason. You seem to think that Sony can do what the fuck they want with zero consequenceand that they are some kind of super company.  They arent... not anywhere near.

This. 

I think a lot of people really don't comprehend just how fucked Sony's situation is. 



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Solid-Stark said:

3rd Revision

This is almost perfectly in line with my earlier predictions. Though if I were to revise mine today I'd add more RAM. I think I'll do that.



Ist Revision: 

Hardware Specifications
Central Processing Unit (CPU) QC @ 3.4ghz 
Graphics Processing Unit (GPU) HD 7850 2gb vram
Memory  6GB (inc 2gb vram)
Storage Capacity 16 or 32gb Flash/500gb HDD

This can run BF3 on Ultra at 1080p + 60fps, considering it's a closed system that'll be well optimized for.
CPU = £75
GPU = £80
RAM = £25
Storage = £25/£50
Other parts = £80
Total manufacturing cost = £285/310
Retail prices:
16 or 32GB PS4 =  £299 ($349) 
500GB PS4 =  £349 ($399 note that these are not direct conversions of currency, 'Merica gets things cheaper)
(prices are of course estimations that take into account bulk puchasing and date of consoles release, which I think will be 2013)
 
A moderately powerful console, definitely a big jump over this gen, sold for a profitable £299/£349. Perfect.
Edit: CPU price has been adjusted
(1st revision changes include: More RAM, different storage options)


Andrespetmonkey said:

Ist Revision: 

Hardware Specifications
Central Processing Unit (CPU) QC @ 3.4ghz 
Graphics Processing Unit (GPU) HD 7850 2gb vram
Memory  6GB (inc 2gb vram)
Storage Capacity 16 or 32gb Flash/500gb HDD

 

This can run BF3 on Ultra at 1080p + 60fps, considering it's a closed system that'll be well optimized for.
CPU = £75
GPU = £80
RAM = £25
Storage = £25/£50
Other parts = £80
Total manufacturing cost = £285/310
Retail prices:
16 or 32GB PS4 =  £299 ($349) 
500GB PS4 =  £349 ($399 note that these are not direct conversions of currency, 'Merica gets things cheaper)
(prices are of course estimations that take into account bulk puchasing and date of consoles release, which I think will be 2013)
 
A moderately powerful console, definitely a big jump over this gen, sold for a profitable £299/£349. Perfect.
Edit: CPU price has been adjusted
(1st revision changes include: More RAM, different storage options)

 

The only thing I can't really stick to is the CPU, in my case an APU. Rumors have pegged it with an APU, and the latest rumor, a Steamroller APU; so in that case if we do see the PS4 in 2013 then it will be an APU, no chance of a Steamroller FX CPU in 2013 PS4 launch.



e=mc^2

Gaming on: PS4 Pro, Switch, SNES Mini, Wii U, PC (i5-7400, GTX 1060)

goddog said:
Solid-Stark said:

3rd Revision

Processor:

AMD Steamroller APU

The CELL processor will stay on board for BC. (Maybe for the first 2 or 3 years)

Ram:

2GB DDR3 1600MHz for the APU [1GB dedicated to OS and multimedia/multitasking applications] 1GB will be available for developers.

GPU

AMD Radeon HD7850 derived GPU with 2GB GDDR5
Integrated GPU in APU to be next gen?


Bluray drive

BD drive will stay but will be the latest (speed). Installations will be optional.


Storage

Sony should go flash. (16Gb?) This would bring down costs and since installations would be optional, it would be completely up to the consumer if he/she wants to purchase an HDD.


PS4 manufacturing to cost maybe $400. PS4 to retail at $400; break even or small loss.
It will also need to launch with Killzone "4" and Uncharted "4" as it would be a perfect way to market the PS"4".
Gran Turismo 6 would also be needed.

 

without more ram that will be a horribly under powered system especially when we have devs talking about game engines that will need a 64 bit cpus due to the amount of ram the game will use. 

I expect sony and ms to ship with a min of 6 gigs of ddr3 and would not be surprised if they are trying to hold off for ddr4 which should see first volume use next year in servers so its reasonable to think it could show up in consoles as a deal to help early demand and keep costs down for manufacturers by guaranteeing some product sold

 

gpu will probably be AMD but id guess the next version say 8850 2-3 gig gddr5 or could be a custom build again a family mod of the new core AMD has … it does look like nvidia somehow lost out on all consoles this time

as for your cpu, a custom APU would make since if AMD  can get its ass in gear on the power/heat issues it has right now and i don't see the bulldozer linage cores ever providing the kind of  single core performance that you really want in gaming, unless AMD has figured out how to ramp them up to the needed 4.5+ ghz without the monsters heat 

i think another custom power family cpu  (cell is a power family cpu) would work best but maybe they don't want to pay IBM or freescale to build it. 

 

as for storage flash +hdd. I think sony may monazite the HDDs like MS did last time, its a major revenue stream they missed, and thats strange for them because they love locking down memory for storage with proprietary formats 

 

blue ray will be in the first console, then later a revision with download only and an external reader if you want it. … i see both sony and ms doing this. 

450 bucks tops coming out …. 

though i fear they may see MS subscription model and feel thats they way to sell a more costly console and guarantee revenue and we will see 199 consoles with 2-4 year contracts

 

I didn't include my premise in this revision which is, I don't expect Sony to have the strongest next gen hardware. IMO 4GB is enough for a gaming console, but it all depends on one's own expectations. I don't expect next years next gen consoles to cath up with the latest and best PC tech will have to offer in 2013. 1080p should be a target, but "Ultra graphics at 60fps and high levels of AA" across all games would throw out any $400 console.



e=mc^2

Gaming on: PS4 Pro, Switch, SNES Mini, Wii U, PC (i5-7400, GTX 1060)

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Solid-Stark said:
goddog said:
Solid-Stark said:

3rd Revision

Processor:

AMD Steamroller APU

The CELL processor will stay on board for BC. (Maybe for the first 2 or 3 years)

Ram:

2GB DDR3 1600MHz for the APU [1GB dedicated to OS and multimedia/multitasking applications] 1GB will be available for developers.

GPU

AMD Radeon HD7850 derived GPU with 2GB GDDR5
Integrated GPU in APU to be next gen?


Bluray drive

BD drive will stay but will be the latest (speed). Installations will be optional.


Storage

Sony should go flash. (16Gb?) This would bring down costs and since installations would be optional, it would be completely up to the consumer if he/she wants to purchase an HDD.


PS4 manufacturing to cost maybe $400. PS4 to retail at $400; break even or small loss.
It will also need to launch with Killzone "4" and Uncharted "4" as it would be a perfect way to market the PS"4".
Gran Turismo 6 would also be needed.

 

without more ram that will be a horribly under powered system especially when we have devs talking about game engines that will need a 64 bit cpus due to the amount of ram the game will use. 

I expect sony and ms to ship with a min of 6 gigs of ddr3 and would not be surprised if they are trying to hold off for ddr4 which should see first volume use next year in servers so its reasonable to think it could show up in consoles as a deal to help early demand and keep costs down for manufacturers by guaranteeing some product sold

 

gpu will probably be AMD but id guess the next version say 8850 2-3 gig gddr5 or could be a custom build again a family mod of the new core AMD has … it does look like nvidia somehow lost out on all consoles this time

as for your cpu, a custom APU would make since if AMD  can get its ass in gear on the power/heat issues it has right now and i don't see the bulldozer linage cores ever providing the kind of  single core performance that you really want in gaming, unless AMD has figured out how to ramp them up to the needed 4.5+ ghz without the monsters heat 

i think another custom power family cpu  (cell is a power family cpu) would work best but maybe they don't want to pay IBM or freescale to build it. 

 

as for storage flash +hdd. I think sony may monazite the HDDs like MS did last time, its a major revenue stream they missed, and thats strange for them because they love locking down memory for storage with proprietary formats 

 

blue ray will be in the first console, then later a revision with download only and an external reader if you want it. … i see both sony and ms doing this. 

450 bucks tops coming out …. 

though i fear they may see MS subscription model and feel thats they way to sell a more costly console and guarantee revenue and we will see 199 consoles with 2-4 year contracts

 

I didn't include my premise in this revision which is, I don't expect Sony to have the strongest next gen hardware. IMO 4GB is enough for a gaming console, but it all depends on one's own expectations. I don't expect next years next gen consoles to cath up with the latest and best PC tech will have to offer in 2013. 1080p should be a target, but "Ultra graphics at 60fps and high levels of AA" across all games would throw out any $400 console.

 

the console put forth makes more sense then, but in the state listed it would need to be replaced again in 3-4 years as opposed to consoles like the current ones, and i think a longer term solution is best. though devs may hate it, it will get more of the market behind the console in the longer term and should result in more game sales over all. I still feel right now if we had an appropriate price cut to the ps3/360 (and it looks like sony is game for it) the market could bear these consoles for up to 2014 for a refresh. even when their replacements hit the market I expect them both to stay available for purchase in major markets for an additional 3 years …

 

this gen has been a strange one, i don't think we have had enough time yet to look back and know if the wii really grew the market or just created a massive anomaly, or did "mobile/social gaming" really knee cap home consoles just as they were becoming for everyone.

for me the wii failed to put a follow through in its promise with a real sustainable wave of games to push it. that lead to apathy of gamers who were buying it. the PS3/360 are suffering from prices being above consumer expectations. in MS case also slowly alienating core demographics with pore UI (it amazes me how far the UI on the 360 has fallen in terms of usability since launch), and corporate messages. In sonys case constantly shifting the corporate message and reneging on promises. both of these have hurt sales, though not in a  major way yet, but i feel it may impact the next generation more than the current one 

 

edit : the return of indie games I think is a major shift as well it will be interesting to see who can really treat them right.... and always a posibility of a steam box... a real fourth player 

 



come play minecraft @  mcg.hansrotech.com

minecraft name: hansrotec

XBL name: Goddog

Isn't Steamroller AMDs next high end chip? If that is in PS4 itll be a beast.



goddog said:
Solid-Stark said:
goddog said:
Solid-Stark said:

3rd Revision

Processor:

AMD Steamroller APU

The CELL processor will stay on board for BC. (Maybe for the first 2 or 3 years)

Ram:

2GB DDR3 1600MHz for the APU [1GB dedicated to OS and multimedia/multitasking applications] 1GB will be available for developers.

GPU

AMD Radeon HD7850 derived GPU with 2GB GDDR5
Integrated GPU in APU to be next gen?


Bluray drive

BD drive will stay but will be the latest (speed). Installations will be optional.


Storage

Sony should go flash. (16Gb?) This would bring down costs and since installations would be optional, it would be completely up to the consumer if he/she wants to purchase an HDD.


PS4 manufacturing to cost maybe $400. PS4 to retail at $400; break even or small loss.
It will also need to launch with Killzone "4" and Uncharted "4" as it would be a perfect way to market the PS"4".
Gran Turismo 6 would also be needed.

 

without more ram that will be a horribly under powered system especially when we have devs talking about game engines that will need a 64 bit cpus due to the amount of ram the game will use. 

I expect sony and ms to ship with a min of 6 gigs of ddr3 and would not be surprised if they are trying to hold off for ddr4 which should see first volume use next year in servers so its reasonable to think it could show up in consoles as a deal to help early demand and keep costs down for manufacturers by guaranteeing some product sold

 

gpu will probably be AMD but id guess the next version say 8850 2-3 gig gddr5 or could be a custom build again a family mod of the new core AMD has … it does look like nvidia somehow lost out on all consoles this time

as for your cpu, a custom APU would make since if AMD  can get its ass in gear on the power/heat issues it has right now and i don't see the bulldozer linage cores ever providing the kind of  single core performance that you really want in gaming, unless AMD has figured out how to ramp them up to the needed 4.5+ ghz without the monsters heat 

i think another custom power family cpu  (cell is a power family cpu) would work best but maybe they don't want to pay IBM or freescale to build it. 

 

as for storage flash +hdd. I think sony may monazite the HDDs like MS did last time, its a major revenue stream they missed, and thats strange for them because they love locking down memory for storage with proprietary formats 

 

blue ray will be in the first console, then later a revision with download only and an external reader if you want it. … i see both sony and ms doing this. 

450 bucks tops coming out …. 

though i fear they may see MS subscription model and feel thats they way to sell a more costly console and guarantee revenue and we will see 199 consoles with 2-4 year contracts

 

I didn't include my premise in this revision which is, I don't expect Sony to have the strongest next gen hardware. IMO 4GB is enough for a gaming console, but it all depends on one's own expectations. I don't expect next years next gen consoles to cath up with the latest and best PC tech will have to offer in 2013. 1080p should be a target, but "Ultra graphics at 60fps and high levels of AA" across all games would throw out any $400 console.

 

the console put forth makes more sense then, but in the state listed it would need to be replaced again in 3-4 years as opposed to consoles like the current ones, and i think a longer term solution is best. though devs may hate it, it will get more of the market behind the console in the longer term and should result in more game sales over all. I still feel right now if we had an appropriate price cut to the ps3/360 (and it looks like sony is game for it) the market could bear these consoles for up to 2014 for a refresh. even when their replacements hit the market I expect them both to stay available for purchase in major markets for an additional 3 years …

 

this gen has been a strange one, i don't think we have had enough time yet to look back and know if the wii really grew the market or just created a massive anomaly, or did "mobile/social gaming" really knee cap home consoles just as they were becoming for everyone.

for me the wii failed to put a follow through in its promise with a real sustainable wave of games to push it. that lead to apathy of gamers who were buying it. the PS3/360 are suffering from prices being above consumer expectations. in MS case also slowly alienating core demographics with pore UI (it amazes me how far the UI on the 360 has fallen in terms of usability since launch), and corporate messages. In sonys case constantly shifting the corporate message and reneging on promises. both of these have hurt sales, though not in a  major way yet, but i feel it may impact the next generation more than the current one 

 

edit : the return of indie games I think is a major shift as well it will be interesting to see who can really treat them right.... and always a posibility of a steam box... a real fourth player 

 

Thats is true. I think a current long gen is good for next gen so that they can put out long term hardware that can stay relevant for more than 3 years. The problem would be a market acceptable price by the consumer at launch.

I do hope those rumors hold true.



e=mc^2

Gaming on: PS4 Pro, Switch, SNES Mini, Wii U, PC (i5-7400, GTX 1060)

Turkish said:
Isn't Steamroller AMDs next high end chip? If that is in PS4 itll be a beast.

It's their next-gen core architecture. Steamroller APU's are pegged for manufacturing sometime next year (Piledriver is just rolling out this month); however, appearantly next years APUs wont have "full Steamroller cores". Steamroller FX CPU's will be available till late 2013 at the earliest. If the PS4 is to have any form of Steamroller and come out in 2013 then it would be an APU. Waiting for the CPU would be more ideal.

Of course this is all assuming Sony goes with AMD.



e=mc^2

Gaming on: PS4 Pro, Switch, SNES Mini, Wii U, PC (i5-7400, GTX 1060)

Solid-Stark said:
Turkish said:
Isn't Steamroller AMDs next high end chip? If that is in PS4 itll be a beast.

It's their next-gen core architecture. Steamroller APU's are pegged for manufacturing sometime next year (Piledriver is just rolling out this month); however, appearantly next years APUs wont have "full Steamroller cores". Steamroller FX CPU's will be available till late 2013 at the earliest. If the PS4 is to have any form of Steamroller and come out in 2013 then it would be an APU. Waiting for the CPU would be more ideal.

Of course this is all assuming Sony goes with AMD.

I cant see them doing this; though the use of an APU is intriguing.

 

the heat and power draw from the bulldozer/piledriver lineage has not lived up to expectations. IPC is still low compared to prior gan AMD hardware, and they have still not reached the frequencies they really wanted to hit, while all this may be fixed in a year or two… i would place money on improved but not fixed especially the heat/power issue. 

 

unless they are being cut a really good deal i expect other cpus to be used, 

 

the APU route is tempting, but they are not putting a big enough GPU on there yet, and again heat/power is the issue … 

 

so id say look for the AMD gpu but the cpu i still see being a custom cpu - power family most likely and developed by either freescale or IBM … if a move is made to X86 … well intel would be better choice… but if they are dead set on using an APU it will be interesting to see what custom silicon they get because no current or projected  product line would meet the needs 



come play minecraft @  mcg.hansrotech.com

minecraft name: hansrotec

XBL name: Goddog