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The problem I have with all this is that I know a few friends around the world that I have met over the years. We all have the same thoughts regarding this subject. People say that they hate the U.S. That is not true. The people hate the U.S. GOVERNMENT. I love the U.S.A, but I too hate our government. They stick their noses in the buisness of others when they cannot fix the problems in their own country. I cannot say I hate Iranians because of what my Government puts on TV because my friend from that region is a downright loyal human being. The hatred for the US government goes back way before the Bush presidency. The middle eastern countries hated our government then because our damn Gov has been screwing them over. Clinton was starting to improve things between us. It just happens to be that Bush (the real terrorist) finally went too far and they are starting to get tired of being pushed around.



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gorgepir said:

Well the way I see it, during Bill Clinton's times there was a huge improvement in the relations. The Iranians began working towards democracy (slowly I might add) and the US began easing sanctions (they removed the sanctions on drugs and food for example) and even accepted responsibility for a coup that removed a democratic goverment in Iran about 50 years ago (one of the few democratic governments).
Then suddenly George Bush comes. After the 9,11 attacks Iran was one of the first (if not first) countries to condemn the attack. The president at the time (Khatami) was trying to show to the other branches of the government that we don't need confrontation and we can live peacfully with others. When the United States attacked Afghanistan, they attacked via air, while Iran provided the support for the ground operations. They even worked together at that point. Everything was getting better, suddenly George Bush said (and I really don't know why) that Iran belonged to the Axis of Evil. Sure they were bad before but they were getting better and co-operating. After that everyone began to redicule Khatami and when his presidency ended, a (idiot) become the next president with promises to improve the economy (which he failed).
The main difference I see with Bush and Clinton was that with Clinton we had a chance to end this, but Bush needed an enemy so he made Iran to be that enemy.

Therefore the cause for the hatred now is that we were moving towards democracy, and when Bush announced us part of the Axis of Evil it ended all our hopes to become a democracy because the hardliners came back.


There's no Denying it when Bill was in the office things were much better then they are now at least the American side of things, it’s nice to know that his outreach stretched farther out then the USA.

Now here’s where it gets confusing to me because he was elected before 9/11 so was it as soon as he won that the of people Afghanistan started disliking him (maybe for what his father did in the past perhaps?) or was it something entirely different?

And last if it was not Bush who won the election instead lets say Al gore won the election do you think that Iran would’ve stayed on course to become more of democracy Country?



@Shade: Didn't Gore win the election? Just that because of all the confusion and fuck-ups, the supreme court decides tha Bush wins before they managed to count all the votes.



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I was talking specificaly about us Iranians, I might not be the best person to answer about the whole middle east but I can tell you what I think.
The people in Afghanistan (well the rulers at the time the Taliban anyway) were a very very conservative muslim people. They had beliefs that were very very old and imposed them on their people. (That made our life in Iran easy, because we could always call anybody that began to be a hardliner a Taliban anyway). The Afghans actually had a pretty good view of the US because they helped them in their war against the soviet union, but the Taliban didn't because they only beleived in Islam and hated everyone else. The Iranian government was about to go with war with them before 9,11 but the world powers didn't let them.
So to summarize, I think the hatred in Afghanistan had nothing to do with Bush, it was an overall hatred.
Now that was not the case in Iran. I have explained our situation before.
To answer your last question, if Bush hadn't said those things and acted differently, I guess they would have stayed the course to democracy. Assuming Al Gore had won and he continued what Bill Clinton was doing, I am sure it would have been much easier.



Based on this thread, http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=14327#end. Iran is ranked #20.
If US Nuke Iran into oblivion, US would rank up... to 162.



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Actually, I don't remember Bush ever declaring a war on Iran, but declaring a war on terrorists, which don't exactly stick to one country and stay there, but tend to go wherever they think they can get away with hiding. I've heard of a war IN Iran, but the only people I've heard talking about a War ON Iran are the media.
Meh, who knows, over here, there is a bias in the media, and has been for some time, over there, I've got no clue what type of bias there might be. It's really kinda sad when teh internet has become just as reliable as your basic news sources.



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Grey Acumen said:
Actually, I don't remember Bush ever declaring a war on Iran, but declaring a war on terrorists, which don't exactly stick to one country and stay there, but tend to go wherever they think they can get away with hiding. I've heard of a war IN Iran, but the only people I've heard talking about a War ON Iran are the media.
Meh, who knows, over here, there is a bias in the media, and has been for some time, over there, I've got no clue what type of bias there might be. It's really kinda sad when teh internet has become just as reliable as your basic news sources.

Bush didn't declare a war on Iran, he declared Iran to be part of the "Axis of Evil", Iraq North Korea and Iran.



@Grey Acumen: Declaring Iran in the "Axis of evil" and "not counting out any means" speaks for itself.

Axis of evil= the OPEC countries that want to trade oil in Euros.



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Vaan pannaan jalalla koreasti.

 

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You would think the American government would be more gung-ho about developing alternate energy sources given on-going instabilities in that region.



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