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Forums - General - A Report From Obama’s “Humane” Drug War

curl-6 on 24 May 2012
SamuelRSmith said:
curl-6 said:
SamuelRSmith said:
curl-6 said:
Never said control laws were the ONLY factor. (And the effectiveness of these laws have to be taken into account too) In Brazil, for example, they may be fewer guns, but they are very uncontrolled in practice.

Guns, like driving a car, (and reproduction in my opinion) shouldn't be a right, you should have to be rigorously tested to see if you are deemed responsible enough for it.


Why is defending yourself not a right?

The Founders of the United States did not agree on much, just about everything in the Bill of Rights was heavily debated. The one thing they all agreed on, however, was the 2nd Amendment. After all, they know that without guns, they still would have been under the tyranny of a king.

There are plenty of ways to defend oneself besides guns.

And fair enough back in the 18th century but the US is no longer fighting for independence.

How do you defend yourself without a gun when the other person has a gun?

As for your second point...

What about when Hitler first took the guns from the Jews before he started rounding them up?

What about China?  Would Tiananmen Square had been such a massacre if the students carried guns?

Would Burma/Myanmar or North Korea be in the same situation today if the people had guns?

Your argument is ridiculous. Sure, Americans are free from tyranny now. But that's only because of guns. By removing guns you make it so much harder to repel tyranny in the future. To think that "it won't happen" is a foolish notion.

As Jefferson said "When the people fear the Government, there is tyranny. When the Government fears the people, there is liberty". An armed populace is the number one way to keep the Government fearful.

I'm not saying guns should be banned, I'm saying you should have to EARN your right to own one through rigorous testing, much like a driver's license. (Except more rigorous) Not just let every irresponsible ignorant everyman have one.

With rigorous testing, the people with guns will be much less likely to misuse them, and there will be less guns to be misused.

And lots of countries without a heavily armed population have liberty.



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oldschoolfool on 25 May 2012

I disagree with this. I'm not for selling drugs and drug related items,but the govment could have went after different people,instead of this person,that apparently was'nt even selling drugs.



sethnintendo on 25 May 2012
oldschoolfool said:
I disagree with this. I'm not for selling drugs and drug related items,but the govment could have went after different people,instead of this person,that apparently was'nt even selling drugs.

Why you against selling drugs?  We give our kids prescription meth for the so called disorders of ADD and ADHD.  We pump ourselves full of caffeine, alcohol, cigarettes, and countless prescription medications.  Marijuana is the safest drug on this planet and the war against it makes me not proud to be American (among many other issues).  I view our society as dumb as it was back in the 20s during alcohol prohibition.  Too bad shit can't change.... 



Adinnieken on 25 May 2012
SamuelRSmith said:

At 5:30 a.m. on May 10, armed men broke into the bedroom of Kirk Kyle Farrar’s 12 year-old daughter and shook her awake. The men led her downstairs at gunpoint and forced her to lie on the floor next to her mother and father, with her hands behind her head. Another armed man took Farrar’s two-year-old son from his crib, and would not let his parents hold him. “My son screamed for his mother for what seemed like an eternity,” Farrar wrote in an email to friends, obtained by Reason. “I will never forget the hopeless feeling of not being able to comfort my son or daughter.” The men were federal and local police officers, and they were arresting Farrar for selling bongs and glass pipes. 

http://reason.com/blog/2012/05/20/a-report-from-obamas-humane-drug-war-my


It is illegal to sell or possess drug paraphernalia in the US.  If the shop privately was selling items as bongs and pipes, but publically selling them as "tobacco water pipes" then they were knowingly selling them for the purposes of assisting someone in the commission of a crime.

If a gun shop owner sells advertises a gun as a "widow maker" and a woman comes in the shop, purchases the gun with the expressed (to the shop owner) purpose of killing her husband, should the gun owner be responsible (in part) for a crime of murder if the woman goes home and shoots her husband?

Whether you like it or not, there is a responsibility to every shop owner selling something that has both a legal purpose and an illegal purpose, to prevent the sale when something is knowingly going to be used by someone for illegal purposes.  Otherwise it's negligence.  And if someone goes out of their way to make people know they can use something for an illegal purpose, they're complicit in the crime.

My guess is publically the shop owner may have been selling "tabacco water pipes", but privately (i.e. to interested customers they trusted) selling them as bongs and pipes for drug use.



sethnintendo on 25 May 2012
Adinnieken said:
SamuelRSmith said:

At 5:30 a.m. on May 10, armed men broke into the bedroom of Kirk Kyle Farrar’s 12 year-old daughter and shook her awake. The men led her downstairs at gunpoint and forced her to lie on the floor next to her mother and father, with her hands behind her head. Another armed man took Farrar’s two-year-old son from his crib, and would not let his parents hold him. “My son screamed for his mother for what seemed like an eternity,” Farrar wrote in an email to friends, obtained by Reason. “I will never forget the hopeless feeling of not being able to comfort my son or daughter.” The men were federal and local police officers, and they were arresting Farrar for selling bongs and glass pipes. 

http://reason.com/blog/2012/05/20/a-report-from-obamas-humane-drug-war-my



Whether you like it or not, there is a responsibility to every shop owner selling something that has both a legal purpose and an illegal purpose, to prevent the sale when something is knowingly going to be used by someone for illegal purposes.  Otherwise it's negligence.  And if someone goes out of their way to make people know they can use something for an illegal purpose, they're complicit in the crime.

 


Too bad all smoke shops in the US cater towards potheads.  How many people smoke tobacco out of water pipes?  Not many... Just like those blunts and cigarillos at the convenient store.  How many do you think get rolled into blunts?  Probably more than 90%.