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Forums - General - Democrats Quiet Down Down on War as Conditions in Iraq Improve

Ickalanda on 13 January 2008
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Ickalanda said:
The point of the topic is that the Democrats have stopped talking about the war indicating the no longer want people to notice the fact that things aren't going in the Democrats favor anymore (because they want us to lose since a Republican started it) not that the number of deaths in Iraq have gone down.

Nah, its beacuse the economy is a bigger issue, thanks to Bush and the GOP


The U.S. Economy looks fine to me.  The recession caused by 9/11 and not Bush is no longer an issue and we are back on an upward trend.

(sorry about all the images 56kers if any of you still exist?) 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/DJIA_historical_graph.svg



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Rath on 13 January 2008

Do you have any graphs of either of the following?

US debt.
US federal budget.

Both would show some interesting figures for the recent years.



koffieboon on 13 January 2008
Lemmniewinks said:
stof said:
Hey look, less U.S. soldiers have been killed this month in our chaotic illegal and immoral quagmire! Mission accomplished!


Oh no, call the U.N.! Naughty U.S. has commited a crime! Naughty meanies!(I am not insulting you, just that opinion you hold... I am always way too sarcastic, and I couldn't resist!)

Plus... the actual mission accomplished was the overthrowing of Hussein(Typo?). The military and politicians just overlooked the importance of sem-organized military cells. The Iraqi military was worthless, but the individual Islamic cells are not. Put the people in a state of fear to demoralize their beliefe in the occupying forces, an slowly strike at the morale of the occupying country. THat tactic is very hard to counter-measure when your own media sides with what the enemy wishes to accomplish.

This war isn't military versus military, it is and Ideal versus Ideal. No TRUE victory can be acheived unless one of the Ideals give in.

Anyway... I seriousluy need to get out of this thread... I can see the flaming already!... Grrggh... cannot... resist...

 

@Rath

You misunderstood the feelings those words give me, not the actual literal idea the sentence has. But that is what happens with archaic English. I am not sure how to explain what I actually think... so I won't try.

 


I thought the US claimed they invaded Iraq because of their huge arsenal of weapons of mass destruction. You know, that stuff they found they found in abundance once they had overtrown Hussain. Oh wait... they didn't find any at all, did they? You know what they did find, and plenty of it? OIL!!!

Anyway, the real issue is the US started the war without a plan for peace after getting Hussain out of office. How fooling did Bush look declaring they won the war how many years ago?



makingmusic476 on 13 January 2008
Rath said:
Do you have any graphs of either of the following?

US debt.
US federal budget.

Both would show some interesting figures for the recent years.

While I agree that we should evenetually get out of debt (or at least close to it), you do realize that this nation has been in debt since it's inception?  Hamiltonian economics was founded on the idea of a "sinking fund" in which the government always spends more than it makes.

Of course, I still think we should reduce the national debt significantly, only so that 1/3rd of our yearly budget isn't thrown towards interest on what we owe.



masschamber on 13 January 2008

anyone besides me remember when Bill Clinton had multiple bombing runs on Iraq under the belief that they had weapon's of mass destruction?



I HAVE A DOUBLE DRAGON CAB IN MY KITCHEN!!!!!!

NOW A PUNISHER CAB!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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makingmusic476 on 13 January 2008
koffieboon said:
Lemmniewinks said:
stof said:
Hey look, less U.S. soldiers have been killed this month in our chaotic illegal and immoral quagmire! Mission accomplished!


Oh no, call the U.N.! Naughty U.S. has commited a crime! Naughty meanies!(I am not insulting you, just that opinion you hold... I am always way too sarcastic, and I couldn't resist!)

Plus... the actual mission accomplished was the overthrowing of Hussein(Typo?). The military and politicians just overlooked the importance of sem-organized military cells. The Iraqi military was worthless, but the individual Islamic cells are not. Put the people in a state of fear to demoralize their beliefe in the occupying forces, an slowly strike at the morale of the occupying country. THat tactic is very hard to counter-measure when your own media sides with what the enemy wishes to accomplish.

This war isn't military versus military, it is and Ideal versus Ideal. No TRUE victory can be acheived unless one of the Ideals give in.

Anyway... I seriousluy need to get out of this thread... I can see the flaming already!... Grrggh... cannot... resist...

 

@Rath

You misunderstood the feelings those words give me, not the actual literal idea the sentence has. But that is what happens with archaic English. I am not sure how to explain what I actually think... so I won't try.

 


I thought the US claimed they invaded Iraq because of their huge arsenal of weapons of mass destruction. You know, that stuff they found they found in abundance once they had overtrown Hussain. Oh wait... they didn't find any at all, did they? You know what they did find, and plenty of it? OIL!!!

Anyway, the real issue is the US started the war without a plan for peace after getting Hussain out of office. How fooling did Bush look declaring they won the war how many years ago?


Um...Tony Blair and even Jacques Chirac thought he had WMDs as well. Blair attacked with us, but Chirac refused, and later we found out that French officias were being payed millions if not billions via oil for food.

We may have been wrong, but every other major player in the UN was wrong as well, they just weren't so keen to act on the information they had at the time, for not so virtuous reasons.



epsilon72 on 13 January 2008
masschamber said:
anyone besides me remember when Bill Clinton had multiple bombing runs on Iraq under the belief that they had weapon's of mass destruction?
I don't remember that exactly, but I do remember that Hillary said that Iraq was a threat and that she thought they had wmd's while the Clintons were in office.

 



Ickalanda on 13 January 2008
koffieboon said:
Lemmniewinks said:
stof said:
Hey look, less U.S. soldiers have been killed this month in our chaotic illegal and immoral quagmire! Mission accomplished!


Oh no, call the U.N.! Naughty U.S. has commited a crime! Naughty meanies!(I am not insulting you, just that opinion you hold... I am always way too sarcastic, and I couldn't resist!)

Plus... the actual mission accomplished was the overthrowing of Hussein(Typo?). The military and politicians just overlooked the importance of sem-organized military cells. The Iraqi military was worthless, but the individual Islamic cells are not. Put the people in a state of fear to demoralize their beliefe in the occupying forces, an slowly strike at the morale of the occupying country. THat tactic is very hard to counter-measure when your own media sides with what the enemy wishes to accomplish.

This war isn't military versus military, it is and Ideal versus Ideal. No TRUE victory can be acheived unless one of the Ideals give in.

Anyway... I seriousluy need to get out of this thread... I can see the flaming already!... Grrggh... cannot... resist...

 

@Rath

You misunderstood the feelings those words give me, not the actual literal idea the sentence has. But that is what happens with archaic English. I am not sure how to explain what I actually think... so I won't try.

 


I thought the US claimed they invaded Iraq because of their huge arsenal of weapons of mass destruction. You know, that stuff they found they found in abundance once they had overtrown Hussain. Oh wait... they didn't find any at all, did they? You know what they did find, and plenty of it? OIL!!!

Anyway, the real issue is the US started the war without a plan for peace after getting Hussain out of office. How fooling did Bush look declaring they won the war how many years ago?

 

The actual main reason for invading Iraq was to take out Saddam Hussein and there was good reason to believe he had weapons of mass destruction such as chemical bombs.

Read up on this: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack 

 

And at Rath:

The United States budget and Debt is just an unavoidable result of the Government actually doing something. 



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koffieboon on 13 January 2008
Ickalanda said:
koffieboon said:
Lemmniewinks said:
stof said:
Hey look, less U.S. soldiers have been killed this month in our chaotic illegal and immoral quagmire! Mission accomplished!


Oh no, call the U.N.! Naughty U.S. has commited a crime! Naughty meanies!(I am not insulting you, just that opinion you hold... I am always way too sarcastic, and I couldn't resist!)

Plus... the actual mission accomplished was the overthrowing of Hussein(Typo?). The military and politicians just overlooked the importance of sem-organized military cells. The Iraqi military was worthless, but the individual Islamic cells are not. Put the people in a state of fear to demoralize their beliefe in the occupying forces, an slowly strike at the morale of the occupying country. THat tactic is very hard to counter-measure when your own media sides with what the enemy wishes to accomplish.

This war isn't military versus military, it is and Ideal versus Ideal. No TRUE victory can be acheived unless one of the Ideals give in.

Anyway... I seriousluy need to get out of this thread... I can see the flaming already!... Grrggh... cannot... resist...

 

@Rath

You misunderstood the feelings those words give me, not the actual literal idea the sentence has. But that is what happens with archaic English. I am not sure how to explain what I actually think... so I won't try.

 


I thought the US claimed they invaded Iraq because of their huge arsenal of weapons of mass destruction. You know, that stuff they found they found in abundance once they had overtrown Hussain. Oh wait... they didn't find any at all, did they? You know what they did find, and plenty of it? OIL!!!

Anyway, the real issue is the US started the war without a plan for peace after getting Hussain out of office. How fooling did Bush look declaring they won the war how many years ago?

 

The actual main reason for invading Iraq was to take out Saddam Hussein and there was good reason to believe he had weapons of mass destruction such as chemical bombs.

Read up on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack

 

And at Rath:

The United States budget and Debt is just an unavoidable result of the Government actually doing something.


The US government was constantly using the WMD argument as their main reason for invading Iraq, getting rid of Saddam was never the main objective. Don't you remember the charade at the UN when Powell showed "the evidence" of Iraq having WMD?

And I never said other countries didn't believe Iraq having WMD. Nor did I say Saddam wasn't a horrible man and getting him out of his office in itself is a good thing. However, the Iraqi people today may be suffering more today than they did under his reign. I only replied to Lemmniewinks claim that the reason the US went to war was getting rid of Saddam. They have always claimed to the outside world it was the WDM issue, and so I mentioned it.



Avinash_Tyagi on 13 January 2008
Ickalanda said:
Avinash_Tyagi said:
Ickalanda said:
The point of the topic is that the Democrats have stopped talking about the war indicating the no longer want people to notice the fact that things aren't going in the Democrats favor anymore (because they want us to lose since a Republican started it) not that the number of deaths in Iraq have gone down.

Nah, its beacuse the economy is a bigger issue, thanks to Bush and the GOP


The U.S. Economy looks fine to me.  The recession caused by 9/11 and not Bush is no longer an issue and we are back on an upward trend.

(sorry about all the images 56kers if any of you still exist?) 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/DJIA_historical_graph.svg


 I like how all your graphs stop over two years ago and don't show any issues with the debt and the rising wave of entitlements and the fac tthat the stock market is going to plunge when the elderly start cashing otu, not to mention the serious dips in consumer spending and rising unemployment



 

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