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Forums - General Discussion - The Abrahamic Religions make No Sense

appolose said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:


How does he not know what we will do? Is he, in fact, not almighty?

God knows everything, remember?

I didn't say He didn't know, I said our future  choices would be what make His knowledge.  That is to say, if there was a god who was not omniscient that made a universe in which free will existed, that universe would arrive at some particular state after some time as everyone continued to make their choices. Now, suppose instead the creator god was omniscient, but made the universe the same way as in the first case.  Once again, that universe arrives at the same state the first one did.  Adding omniscience changed nothing ( I posit).


Yes, it changed something. The very second the creator was made omniscient he knew in which state the universe would end up, as he saw the flow of time and how things would change within.

My three possible scenarios that i mentioned earlier still stands.



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IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
SnakeDrake said:
I hate it when people mix up the Devil's work as God's will

Why???

If God wanted to He could easily kill the Devil.

God didn't want Eve to eat the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge, because God thought knowledge needed to be kept from mankind to preserve their innocence. The devil didn't agree, he believed knowledge should be available to all and so he convinces Eve to eat the fruit. Now, I think we can all agree that the knowledge gathered by mankind has since become quite valuable; otherwise we'd have no technology or medicine.

So maybe God keeps the devil around because in the beginning the devil stopped what could have been a monumental mistake, and now God owes him a favour.



highwaystar101 said:

God didn't want Eve to eat the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge, because God thought knowledge needed to be kept from mankind to preserve their innocence. The devil didn't agree, he believed knowledge should be available to all and so he convinces Eve to eat the fruit. Now, I think we can all agree that the knowledge gathered by mankind has since become quite valuable; otherwise we'd have no technology or medicine.

So maybe God keeps the devil around because in the beginning the devil stopped what could have been a monumental mistake, and now God owes him a favour.


Oh, well... it doesn't stop there:

 

Turns out that the Devil was the true hero all along!



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
highwaystar101 said:

God didn't want Eve to eat the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge, because God thought knowledge needed to be kept from mankind to preserve their innocence. The devil didn't agree, he believed knowledge should be available to all and so he convinces Eve to eat the fruit. Now, I think we can all agree that the knowledge gathered by mankind has since become quite valuable; otherwise we'd have no technology or medicine.

So maybe God keeps the devil around because in the beginning the devil stopped what could have been a monumental mistake, and now God owes him a favour.


Oh, well... it doesn't stop there:

 

Turns out that the Devil was the true hero all along!

That was classic.



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

God is almighty, and He has every single ability that one may think of. This obviously includes the ablity to see the future, to flawlessly predict everything that will happen in this universe. God is aware of everything.

This makes you wonder though: If God really is almighty, then doesn't He already know who will end up in heaven and who will end up in hell? Would He not be able to predict every single good deed and sin that you will commit throughout your life, even before you were born? I mean, how could He not know?

As I see it, God is currently watching us go through happiness and misery just for the hell of it. He knows exactly how evil will affect all humans involved and He has the ability to stop it. He already knows how every single human will use their free (yet, by God, predictable) will, so it's not up to us to do anything about our situation.

 

Our fate is in God's hands. Period.

Don't you think theologians have pondered this very question, this very paradox? Surprise, they have. It's called arminianism and calvinism.

Look it up :)



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Homeroids said:

Don't you think theologians have pondered this very question, this very paradox? Surprise, they have. It's called arminianism and calvinism.

Look it up :)

Yes, I do. However, this thread is dedicated to those who haven't.



At OP-

There are so many things wrong with religion, you can't pin point it to one thing. Once you get past the immoral parts there is a whole scientific aspect to it. That's when religion really falls flat on it's face. Yeah you argue how it's genocidal, petty and pointless but world created in a few days? Flat planet? People lived for hundreds of years? Ok....

I know it's good to debate but believe me you will never convince someone who believes in God that he/she doesn't exist and it's all a load of BS for such and such reason. That can only come from themselves through their own life experiences and research. Only a theist can start questioning their own faith and those with an open mind and a thirst for knowledge will come round eventually.



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
Homeroids said:

Don't you think theologians have pondered this very question, this very paradox? Surprise, they have. It's called arminianism and calvinism.

Look it up :)

Yes, I do. However, this thread is dedicated to those who haven't.


Ok fair enough, but going by your original post it seemed you were ignorant of the two stances. It's not a simple subject. Also, you said the Abrahamic religions. I would argue calvinism and arminianism is more relevant to Christian doctrine due to the atonement. 

You basically said Abrahamic religions make no sense due to the paradox of predetermination vs self determination. Again, it's not a simple subject palmed off by such a simple conclusion as this thread title. But that's just my opinion. :) I think Forest Gump got it right. Life is like a box of chocolates - you never know what you are going to get OR life is what you make of it. Forest Gump concluded it was probably a bit of both :).



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
NobleTeam360 said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

But God already knows about everything that you will choose before you are born. So what is the purpose of hell? Did God just create a few humans that are destined to commit sins and go there once they die? It makes no sense.

We are God's slaves.


LOL you keep saying the same thing over and over.


That's because people won't listen. The answer is clearly stated in the OP but they just keep asking more questions.

And saying "LOL" won't add anything positive to the discussion. If you have nothing to add, then don't add anything.


Wow you get offended easily. Anyway i would give my 2 cents but you will just reply the same way you did to everybody else.



IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
Homeroids said:

Don't you think theologians have pondered this very question, this very paradox? Surprise, they have. It's called arminianism and calvinism.

Look it up :)

Yes, I do. However, this thread is dedicated to those who haven't.


I agree, it is interesting to see what people think on the subject. I like your threads.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.