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Forums - Microsoft - Edge: Microsoft's Xbox division loses $229 million

Mazty on 20 April 2012
pezus said:

Oh god...Mazty, you're making a fool of yourself and giving other users fuel for future fires. Please stop


How? By asking for figures when someone makes a claim about profits? Take that thinking to Wall Street; I'm sure you'll make millions...

 

BenVTrigger said:
@ Mazty

this isn't an opinion and your post is litteraly the fan rhetoric your talking about not using.

If Dirty, Seece, or Kowen were in here they could show you exactly how much the 360 has made in PURE financials. Its not a debate, end of story the 360 has been a succes and posted a profit as a whole, something its nearest competitor the PS3 has not.

The Xbox brand as a whole has not been profitable due to the massive losses inquired by the original Xbox but why in 2012 your arguing that the 360 isn't successful feels..............well how should I put this nicely..........late to the party. Your post looks like something straight out of 2007.

Well if it's not an opinion please attach figures to your claims. I would love to know just how much money the trophy system (a voluntary & free system utilised by the developers of games) has made Microsoft...
I'm not saying it's a debate; I'm saying "Let's see the figures". 

Late to the party? What are you on about? Straight out of 2007? Well please, tell me just how exactly will Microsoft escape the issue of media with their next console. Or tell me why exactly Halo is worth so much when the most profitable games have been multiplaform which indicates that publishers will probably not finance exclusives, or be very relectuant to, in the future. 

You've just said "Well like, you're wrong!" and haven't actually given that claim any backing. If you can give me some figures and answers, that would be useful. 



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Mazty on 20 April 2012
pezus said:
Mazty said:
pezus said:

Oh god...Mazty, you're making a fool of yourself and giving other users fuel for future fires. Please stop


How? By asking for figures when someone makes a claim about profits? Take that thinking to Wall Street; I'm sure you'll make millions...

Just because no one bothers to give you figures doesn't mean they don't exist. Now, most of us already know about them and that they've been making profit for a while, maybe you do not?


How much profit exactly? If people are going to hail the console as an outright success, it's going to have to be a rather large profit, otherwise the risk margin of another console may deter future investors.

Also you have to consider the figures you have seen. Have you seen gross profit or net profit?



BenVTrigger on 20 April 2012

@ Mazty

did you honestly just try to say Halo isn't profitable and worth continuing development on.

My god.................................we've hit a new level here folks.



VicViper on 20 April 2012

Mazty, are you pro-sony or pro-nintendo?

I bet Sony! :D



Jadedx on 20 April 2012

Why don't these obvious ...... get banned? All they do is come into positive MS threads and try to spin them negative or like in this thread make an acceptable loss worse than it is.



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Barozi on 20 April 2012
Mazty said:


1. Let's see the figures. I'm curious as to how much the 360 has brough in when you consider the millions that will have been replaced due to the RROD. Each RROD will cut into the revenue if MS have to replace it. 
2. Every console sells software so what exactly is your point?
3. That's a completely subjective value. Has it increased the brand enough that it's worth $100 of $ 1 billion? And what about the losses due to bad publicity? Again, how much is that worth?  
4. It only just outsells the wii this year and last. Every year before then it was outsold dramatically by the wii, which has almost 50% more console on the market...A pretty redundant point if I've ever seen one, more so if you consider the PS3 now outsells the 360.
5.  Halo ODST & reach sold less then Halo 3. And where outsold by CoD. Again, what is your point? Unless you have financial figures to show the worth of the Halo series, it is a subjective point which is redundant when talking about economics. 
6. Xbox Live profits are how much? And does this offset the replacement 360's and ultimately make the console more profitable then the PS3 or Wii?
7. Who cares about trophies? We are talking about money here, not what you as a gamer enjoy.
8. And you determined Kinect was a success how? Sales for the 360 temporarily increased, but now have dropped lower then the PS3. Seems a bit of a one-hit wonder to temporarily increase sales rather then any sustained increase. 
9. Most developers develop for every console. That is to do with coding and it makes more sense to release a game on 3 consoles then 1. What exactly is your point here?
10. Complete profit even though the gaming division posted a loss??? Also if it has been so successful then why does it have the lowest sales of all 3 consoles? And how strong is the brand name? The Xbox simply joined that generation late on but was not chastised in anyway other then it was rather large. Also with the failure of HD DVD this begs the question how will MS get out of the problem with optical media? If they go for just downloads, then that reduces their market, and if they opt for bluray then they give the competition money. Just saying "XBOX has recognition" doesn't mean anything. Enron had recognition and where are they now?

Please leave any fan rhetoric out of this disucssion (trophy system). This is about money, not what you personally enjoy about the console. Unless you can show certain features/events have increased profit and/or sales, don't mention the point. 

http://xboxlive.ign.com/articles/110/1104399p1.html
Easily over $1b every year since then due to higher Live userbase. Easily making up for RROD.

It doesn't have the lowest sales of all 3 consoles. Where did you get that from ?

"gaming" division is so much more than just Xbox 360. Explanation for the loss:

"EDD operating income decreased reflecting lower revenue, payments made to Nokia related to joint strategic initiatives, and higher other operating expenses. Research and development expenses increased $100 million or 35%, and sales and marketing expenses increased $79 million or 50%, primarily reflecting higher headcount-related expenses. Cost of revenue decreased $80 million or 6% primarily due to lower volumes of Xbox 360 consoles and standalone Kinect sensors sold, offset in part by payments made to Nokia"



Mazty on 20 April 2012
VicViper said:
Mazty, are you pro-sony or pro-nintendo?

I bet Sony! :D


PC gamer, so I don't have any bias. I approach this from the view of an investor and an academic, not a fan. 

 

BenVTrigger said:
@ Mazty

did you honestly just try to say Halo isn't profitable and worth continuing development on.

My god.................................we've hit a new level here folks.

Why are you answering my questions with questions...?
And that is a lovely strawman you made. I said multiplatform titles like CoD are more successful then Halo, so will publishers want to keep exclusives exclusive? Would it be possible to put aside your bias and approach this from the view of an investor?



Mazty on 20 April 2012
Barozi said:
Mazty said:


1. Let's see the figures. I'm curious as to how much the 360 has brough in when you consider the millions that will have been replaced due to the RROD. Each RROD will cut into the revenue if MS have to replace it. 
2. Every console sells software so what exactly is your point?
3. That's a completely subjective value. Has it increased the brand enough that it's worth $100 of $ 1 billion? And what about the losses due to bad publicity? Again, how much is that worth?  
4. It only just outsells the wii this year and last. Every year before then it was outsold dramatically by the wii, which has almost 50% more console on the market...A pretty redundant point if I've ever seen one, more so if you consider the PS3 now outsells the 360.
5.  Halo ODST & reach sold less then Halo 3. And where outsold by CoD. Again, what is your point? Unless you have financial figures to show the worth of the Halo series, it is a subjective point which is redundant when talking about economics. 
6. Xbox Live profits are how much? And does this offset the replacement 360's and ultimately make the console more profitable then the PS3 or Wii?
7. Who cares about trophies? We are talking about money here, not what you as a gamer enjoy.
8. And you determined Kinect was a success how? Sales for the 360 temporarily increased, but now have dropped lower then the PS3. Seems a bit of a one-hit wonder to temporarily increase sales rather then any sustained increase. 
9. Most developers develop for every console. That is to do with coding and it makes more sense to release a game on 3 consoles then 1. What exactly is your point here?
10. Complete profit even though the gaming division posted a loss??? Also if it has been so successful then why does it have the lowest sales of all 3 consoles? And how strong is the brand name? The Xbox simply joined that generation late on but was not chastised in anyway other then it was rather large. Also with the failure of HD DVD this begs the question how will MS get out of the problem with optical media? If they go for just downloads, then that reduces their market, and if they opt for bluray then they give the competition money. Just saying "XBOX has recognition" doesn't mean anything. Enron had recognition and where are they now?

Please leave any fan rhetoric out of this disucssion (trophy system). This is about money, not what you personally enjoy about the console. Unless you can show certain features/events have increased profit and/or sales, don't mention the point. 

http://xboxlive.ign.com/articles/110/1104399p1.html
Easily over $1b every year since then due to higher Live userbase. Easily making up for RROD.

It doesn't have the lowest sales of all 3 consoles. Where did you get that from ?

"gaming" division is so much more than just Xbox 360. Explanation for the loss:

"EDD operating income decreased reflecting lower revenue, payments made to Nokia related to joint strategic initiatives, and higher other operating expenses. Research and development expenses increased $100 million or 35%, and sales and marketing expenses increased $79 million or 50%, primarily reflecting higher headcount-related expenses. Cost of revenue decreased $80 million or 6% primarily due to lower volumes of Xbox 360 consoles and standalone Kinect sensors sold, offset in part by payments made to Nokia"

That's gross profit, not net profit, of Xbox Live. 

It does have the lowest relative sales of all consoles if you consider it was out the first and yet is only a few million ahead of the PS3. 



Barozi on 20 April 2012
BenVTrigger said:
@ Mazty

did you honestly just try to say Halo isn't profitable and worth continuing development on.

My god.................................we've hit a new level here folks.

nah I think he just said that the 46m Halo games that were sold (over 30m this gen alone) and their hundreds of millions dollar MSmade in revenue from that doesn't matter.



BenVTrigger on 20 April 2012

@ Mazty

You have a brain, I know you do so just use it and stop trying to argue with people for no reason. I don't have a bias really I own every current gen system including handhelds. I prefer my 360 just like everyone has a favorite but I play PS3, Wii, and Vita all the time too.

You really are trying to say its not worth MS to keep developing Halo as a franchise. Well lets see why that is ludicrous. First of all it is THE BIGGEST MOST SELLING HD exclusive franchise there is. Exclusives sell systems.

The Halo franchise has sold at retail 30.68 million copies alone THIS GENERATION ONLY. Thats not counting digital sales of the franchise.

Common sense tells you Halo is an absolute cashcow and to stop development on it would be pretty much the most illogical decision in video game history.