By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Nokia's share prices took a dive today

hunter_alien on 11 April 2012
disolitude said:
hunter_alien said:
theprof00 said:
hunter_alien said:
And they are giving away free Lumias for At&T customers :)) My god, how could Nokia fall so hard? Why not go Android, like everyone else did, and save themselves? No, they went WP7, and now they are drowning in their worst decision ever. Dont get me wrong, Im not bashing the OS, its good, its slick, and its fast, but it will never have the marketshare of Android or iOS...

Supposedly, they were paid a very hefty amount of money to go WP7.


Yeah, accept 250million$ and die? Seriously, thats not a good enough reason. Even if MS pays that ammount for the next 3 quarters, its still not worth to destroy the biggest mobile phone manufacturer in the world. At one point they had well over 50% marketshare of ALL the mobile phones in the world. Now they have 23%, and they are sinking like a rock. Samsung an Apple are destroying them in the smartphone segment and soon they will be on par with the likes of Motorola, HTC, Sony and other small players. The feature phone segment is shrinkg every year, and by 2014 it will be less then 10% of the overal market. Nokia is dead if they remain WP7.

You're wrong. As the only WP7 (and WP8) OEM that is actively supporting the platform, they stand to benefit greatly due to lack of competition. They have already sold between 3-4 million Windows phones thus far without expanding in to China, India and USA (Lumia 900 just came out) and without going after the sub 200 dollar market. Basicly 2 windows phone 7 phones, sold in limited markets sold 3-4 million units in 5 months (Lumia 710 and 800).That really isn't too bad at all. Samsung Note sold 5 million units worldwide and everyone is saying its a massive success.

As the platform grows and Windows Phone marketshare increases, Nokia will have a huge advantage of being the best OEM associated witht he platform.

Look a LG, HTC, Sony and Motorolla books in the last year. They are all seeing losses or shrinking revenue in the mobile department and they all only support Android. Only companies that are making money in the mobile sector are Apple and Samsung.


Bullshit! the galaxy note sold 5 million units to date, in 5 months, and lets be honest thats a niche phone, because of its size alone:

http://technorati.com/technology/android/article/samsung-galaxy-note-sells-5-million/

Nokia phones sold often over 100 million and the Lumia 900 hardware is already outdated. Do you trully think that it will keep up, even after the US launch. Lets be honest for a second, Nokia had to shut down their stores in the US, because they had absolutly no brand power there, and they barely sold anything. Their biggest markets, EU and Asia are eaten up on a daily basis by Samsung, HTC and Huawei, and they are in all price segments, and every main Galaxy model sells over 20 million units. And if thats not enoug Apple is stealing a pretty big piece of pie to. US is a lost case for Nokia, and no Nicki Minaj concert will reverse this...



Vote the Mayor for Mayor!

Around the Network
hunter_alien on 11 April 2012
dallas said:
hunter_alien said:
theprof00 said:
hunter_alien said:
theprof00 said:
hunter_alien said:
And they are giving away free Lumias for At&T customers :)) My god, how could Nokia fall so hard? Why not go Android, like everyone else did, and save themselves? No, they went WP7, and now they are drowning in their worst decision ever. Dont get me wrong, Im not bashing the OS, its good, its slick, and its fast, but it will never have the marketshare of Android or iOS...

Supposedly, they were paid a very hefty amount of money to go WP7.


Yeah, accept 250million$ and die? Seriously, thats not a good enough reason. Even if MS pays that ammount for the next 3 quarters, its still not worth to destroy the biggest mobile phone manufacturer in the world. At one point they had well over 50% marketshare of ALL the mobile phones in the world. Now they have 23%, and they are sinking like a rock. Samsung an Apple are destroying them in the smartphone segment and soon they will be on par with the likes of Motorola, HTC, Sony and other small players. The feature phone segment is shrinkg every year, and by 2014 it will be less then 10% of the overal market. Nokia is dead if they remain WP7.

It's going to be over a billion. Nokia says in the several billions over the course of several years.

 

Yeah, thats good untill Nokia becomes so small that MS realises that they are pretty much wasting money. Do you have any info on how many units Nokia has to ship to get that payment? I doubt that MS will be funding it after it fails to break into the phone market. To be honest Nokia is a dinosaur. Samsung is pushing out phone after phone and the crowds are eating it up. The R&D process of Nokia is disastrous, they made such a fuss about the Lumia series, yet they barely managed to launch it in the US after sveral months that it was available elsewhere. I never understood what takes them so much. How can a company as small as HTC have almost day one worldwide releases and Nokia strugles to get out some models in the US months after they launched it in the EU or Asia

Msft stopped supporting toshiba's hddvd bid, I'm sure that they will stop supporting Nokia soon as well.  Mabey google will be nice and buy some patents or whatever


Tipical MS. Buy something up, fail to penetrate the market, throw it away. Actually since their entry into the gaming market, MS failed at pretty much everything else. Compact discs, MP3 players, phones, social networking etc...



Vote the Mayor for Mayor!

disolitude on 11 April 2012
hunter_alien said:
disolitude said:
hunter_alien said:
theprof00 said:
hunter_alien said:
And they are giving away free Lumias for At&T customers :)) My god, how could Nokia fall so hard? Why not go Android, like everyone else did, and save themselves? No, they went WP7, and now they are drowning in their worst decision ever. Dont get me wrong, Im not bashing the OS, its good, its slick, and its fast, but it will never have the marketshare of Android or iOS...

Supposedly, they were paid a very hefty amount of money to go WP7.


Yeah, accept 250million$ and die? Seriously, thats not a good enough reason. Even if MS pays that ammount for the next 3 quarters, its still not worth to destroy the biggest mobile phone manufacturer in the world. At one point they had well over 50% marketshare of ALL the mobile phones in the world. Now they have 23%, and they are sinking like a rock. Samsung an Apple are destroying them in the smartphone segment and soon they will be on par with the likes of Motorola, HTC, Sony and other small players. The feature phone segment is shrinkg every year, and by 2014 it will be less then 10% of the overal market. Nokia is dead if they remain WP7.

You're wrong. As the only WP7 (and WP8) OEM that is actively supporting the platform, they stand to benefit greatly due to lack of competition. They have already sold between 3-4 million Windows phones thus far without expanding in to China, India and USA (Lumia 900 just came out) and without going after the sub 200 dollar market. Basicly 2 windows phone 7 phones, sold in limited markets sold 3-4 million units in 5 months (Lumia 710 and 800).That really isn't too bad at all. Samsung Note sold 5 million units worldwide and everyone is saying its a massive success.

As the platform grows and Windows Phone marketshare increases, Nokia will have a huge advantage of being the best OEM associated witht he platform.

Look a LG, HTC, Sony and Motorolla books in the last year. They are all seeing losses or shrinking revenue in the mobile department and they all only support Android. Only companies that are making money in the mobile sector are Apple and Samsung.


Bullshit! the galaxy note sold 5 million units to date, in 5 months, and lets be honest thats a niche phone, because of its size alone:

http://technorati.com/technology/android/article/samsung-galaxy-note-sells-5-million/

Nokia phones sold often over 100 million and the Lumia 900 hardware is already outdated. Do you trully think that it will keep up, even after the US launch. Lets be honest for a second, Nokia had to shut down their stores in the US, because they had absolutly no brand power there, and they barely sold anything. Their biggest markets, EU and Asia are eaten up on a daily basis by Samsung, HTC and Huawei, and they are in all price segments, and every main Galaxy model sells over 20 million units. And if thats not enoug Apple is stealing a pretty big piece of pie to. US is a lost case for Nokia, and no Nicki Minaj concert will reverse this...


Dude you need to chill here for several reasons:

1. I said 5 million Galaxy notes...I don't see what you're calling bullshit on. 5 million Galaxy notes sold in USA, India and China as well as rest of the world VS 3.5 million Lumia 710's and 800s not sold in USA, India and China. Not too shabby from what I can tell but you may have different benchmarks.

2. Nokia never sold 100 million smartphones. Last quarter they sold 17 million symbian smartphones. They will easily sell as many if not more windows phones this year. Symbian was a burning platform and they had to move...

In comparison, Motorolla sold 5 million smartphones the same quarter selling Android only and much more handsets than 2 devices on the market. Ericson, LG and HTC are in the same boat.

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Motorola-sold-5-million-smartphones-in-Q4-misses-estimates_id25519

You seem to think Android is the solution to everything and it really isn't. Everyone except Samsung is bleeding money using android and I don't see why you think it would be any different for Nokia. They don't make LCD screens for cheap, or chips like samsung to be able to compete toe to toe with them.



hunter_alien on 11 April 2012
disolitude said:
hunter_alien said:
disolitude said:
hunter_alien said:
theprof00 said:
hunter_alien said:
And they are giving away free Lumias for At&T customers :)) My god, how could Nokia fall so hard? Why not go Android, like everyone else did, and save themselves? No, they went WP7, and now they are drowning in their worst decision ever. Dont get me wrong, Im not bashing the OS, its good, its slick, and its fast, but it will never have the marketshare of Android or iOS...

Supposedly, they were paid a very hefty amount of money to go WP7.


Yeah, accept 250million$ and die? Seriously, thats not a good enough reason. Even if MS pays that ammount for the next 3 quarters, its still not worth to destroy the biggest mobile phone manufacturer in the world. At one point they had well over 50% marketshare of ALL the mobile phones in the world. Now they have 23%, and they are sinking like a rock. Samsung an Apple are destroying them in the smartphone segment and soon they will be on par with the likes of Motorola, HTC, Sony and other small players. The feature phone segment is shrinkg every year, and by 2014 it will be less then 10% of the overal market. Nokia is dead if they remain WP7.

You're wrong. As the only WP7 (and WP8) OEM that is actively supporting the platform, they stand to benefit greatly due to lack of competition. They have already sold between 3-4 million Windows phones thus far without expanding in to China, India and USA (Lumia 900 just came out) and without going after the sub 200 dollar market. Basicly 2 windows phone 7 phones, sold in limited markets sold 3-4 million units in 5 months (Lumia 710 and 800).That really isn't too bad at all. Samsung Note sold 5 million units worldwide and everyone is saying its a massive success.

As the platform grows and Windows Phone marketshare increases, Nokia will have a huge advantage of being the best OEM associated witht he platform.

Look a LG, HTC, Sony and Motorolla books in the last year. They are all seeing losses or shrinking revenue in the mobile department and they all only support Android. Only companies that are making money in the mobile sector are Apple and Samsung.


Bullshit! the galaxy note sold 5 million units to date, in 5 months, and lets be honest thats a niche phone, because of its size alone:

http://technorati.com/technology/android/article/samsung-galaxy-note-sells-5-million/

Nokia phones sold often over 100 million and the Lumia 900 hardware is already outdated. Do you trully think that it will keep up, even after the US launch. Lets be honest for a second, Nokia had to shut down their stores in the US, because they had absolutly no brand power there, and they barely sold anything. Their biggest markets, EU and Asia are eaten up on a daily basis by Samsung, HTC and Huawei, and they are in all price segments, and every main Galaxy model sells over 20 million units. And if thats not enoug Apple is stealing a pretty big piece of pie to. US is a lost case for Nokia, and no Nicki Minaj concert will reverse this...


Dude you need to chill here for several reasons:

1. I said 5 million Galaxy notes...I don't see what you're calling bullshit on. 5 million Galaxy notes sold in USA, India and China as well as rest of the world VS 3.5 million Lumia 710's and 800s not sold in USA, India and China. Not too shabby from what I can tell but you may have different benchmarks.

2. Nokia never sold 100 million smartphones. Last quarter they sold 17 million symbian smartphones. They will easily sell as many if not more windows phones this year. Symbian was a burning platform and they had to move...

In comparison, Motorolla sold 5 million smartphones the same quarter selling Android only and much more handsets than 2 devices on the market. Ericson, LG and HTC are in the same boat.

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Motorola-sold-5-million-smartphones-in-Q4-misses-estimates_id25519

You seem to think Android is the solution to everything and it really isn't. Everyone except Samsung is bleeding money using android and I don't see why you think it would be any different for Nokia. They don't make LCD screens for cheap, or chips like samsung to be able to compete toe to toe with them.

 

 

Sorry for that I read 2 million for the Note :P

 

BUT, I wasnt speaking about smartphobes, I was talking about feature phones when I had the 100 million number, and thats a fact. The 1100 series sold over 200 million units, and the 3310 sold over 120 million, so yeah, its a fall from grace for Nokia. And why is everyone bleeding money. HTC posts profits every quarter, Samsung ditto, Motorola Mobility was bought up by google last year, Huawei is breaking profit records every quarter so who is bleeding money on Android? Sony? They just bought out Erricson. Alcatel? lets be honest they dont live on mobile devices anymore. Then who?

 

Like it or not, Android is the best solution at this point if you are a handset manufacturer, and this is comming from somebody who uses blackberry at the moment



Vote the Mayor for Mayor!

disolitude on 11 April 2012
hunter_alien said:

 

 

Sorry for that I read 2 million for the Note :P

 

BUT, I wasnt speaking about smartphobes, I was talking about feature phones when I had the 100 million number, and thats a fact. The 1100 series sold over 200 million units, and the 3310 sold over 120 million, so yeah, its a fall from grace for Nokia. And why is everyone bleeding money. HTC posts profits every quarter, Samsung ditto, Motorola Mobility was bought up by google last year, Huawei is breaking profit records every quarter so who is bleeding money on Android? Sony? They just bought out Erricson. Alcatel? lets be honest they dont live on mobile devices anymore. Then who?

 

Like it or not, Android is the best solution at this point if you are a handset manufacturer, and this is comming from somebody who uses blackberry at the moment

HTC is profiting but that profit is falling fast - http://thenextweb.com/mobile/2012/04/06/htc-posts-weak-q1-2012-earnings-revenue-down-35-net-profit-down-70/

150 million dollar profit, down 70%

Motorolla hasn't profited in years, even after Google bought them and there are rumors that Google is thinking of unloading them to Huawei -http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/11/2940705/is-google-planning-to-sell-motorolas-handset-business-to-huawei

Sony Ericsson hasn't profited in years and we will see how they do now exclusively under Sony.

LG mobile division finally made money for the first time in 6 quarters (10 million on 2.5 billion of revenue) - http://www.mobileburn.com/18409/news/lg-mobile-shows-q4-2011-profit-on-177-million-phones-shipped

 

I'm not saying companies can't profit using Android, but in a market this crowded I think it was very smart for Nokia to go with Windows Phone. They have complete exclusivity to Microsofts R&D on the mobile side and can entertain ideas like a Windows 8 tablet.

 

Back on topic - at this share price, Microsoft could buy Nokia at a huge discount compared to what they are worth. But the chances of Microsoft doing this are slim to none. Both parties are in this for the long run and one doesn't need to buy the other. Microsoft has no other option but to keep trying with windows phone and Nokia really can't go to another platform as they have significant hardware and software development invested on the WP platform.



Around the Network
NintendoPie on 11 April 2012

Geez! Nokia keeps producing these really nice phones and is still failing compared to HTC (Not doing much better with %'s either), Samsung, and Motorola. Hopefully they'll pick up soon.



dallas on 11 April 2012
kowenicki said:
dallas said:

Nokia is unable to give an accurate forecast of its earnings and bc it failed at this, and had to revise said forecast negatively, it's shares fell by 18% today.  

 


incorrect.

it is because they CAN forecast a fall... your OP makes no sense.


The OP was based on the fact that they had to revise their forecast, which necessitates that wall street was mislead.



disolitude on 11 April 2012
NintendoPie said:
Geez! Nokia keeps producing these really nice phones and is still failing compared to HTC (Not doing much better with %'s either), Samsung, and Motorola. Hopefully they'll pick up soon.

Motorola isn't doing very hot to be honest.

And HTC is barely clinging on profit margins. Back in 2010 HTC had 4 Windows phones, 3 Windows mobile devices and a slew of androids and they were booming. In 2012 so far they have announced 3 Android phones, 1 Windows phone 7.5 and 1 Windows Phone 8 coming in later in the year. Market is becoming a lot more competitive and everyone is re-focusing their efforts.

The truth about Nokia is that they probably need tho shed some weight. They have been a massive mobile player all these years but the times are changing. They sold 70 million dumbphones instead of 100 million anticipated which is a lot less but should be still more than anyone else.



DirtyP2002 on 11 April 2012
kowenicki said:

People jumping to incorrect conclusions here just to try and score some points... presumably as some kind of chance at some pay back?

Bloomberg:

“The problem is their past products, the Symbian products,” said Robert Jakobsen, an analyst at Jyske Bank A/S (JYSK). “I assume it is the high end of the Symbian phones that are not selling well. On the other hand, there is increasing momentum on Lumia, and that is the future.”


I just wanted to post the same quote. :D

I don't even know why people bring MS into this at all. The Lumia is selling pretty good and it is clear that older phones caused some trouble for them.



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

disolitude on 11 April 2012
DirtyP2002 said:
kowenicki said:

People jumping to incorrect conclusions here just to try and score some points... presumably as some kind of chance at some pay back?

Bloomberg:

“The problem is their past products, the Symbian products,” said Robert Jakobsen, an analyst at Jyske Bank A/S (JYSK). “I assume it is the high end of the Symbian phones that are not selling well. On the other hand, there is increasing momentum on Lumia, and that is the future.”


I just wanted to post the same quote. :D

I don't even know why people bring MS into this at all. The Lumia is selling pretty good and it is clear that older phones caused some trouble for them.

To put things in to perspective

http://seekingalpha.com/article/492391-the-nokia-news-not-surprising?source=yahoo

"the feature phone is dying but it still represents a huge chunk of Nokia's sales (EUR 2.3 billion and 71 million units as per the press release, which is a lot more than EUR 1.7 billion from smart phones, out of which a bit more than EUR 0.44 billion is coming from Lumias"

Lumia phones represent 1/4 of Nokias smartphone revenue, which represent 42% of their overall revenue. 58% of the Q1 revenue came from dumbphones...