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Forums - Sales Discussion - Sony sees record $6.4 billion net loss, to take tax hit

yanamaster on 10 April 2012

aww geez, some people here do not understand that Sony really is in deep trouble.

For all those that say that it is only the tv business that is not doing well, nuh-uh no, that is not how it works. It doesn't matter that it's only one division, this division accompanied by massive tragic management and business decisions have lead Sony to be in the red for some 4 years running, getting deeper and deeper into lossess.

The tv's that are selling bad, the computers that are selling bad, the losses undertaken by Sony for the PS3, the unprofitable movie studio, all these little things have pushed Sony to the point where another bad year will be a great occasion to make a hostile takeover of the company, whereas a very bad financial year might push them over the technical bankruptcy border.

Revenues don't mean much when you have to consider COGs, excess inventory costs, depreciation, there is so much more than just revenue to go by. Sony's biggest problem by now is the struggle to maintain a healthy amount of cash to use as a cushion. To go from $6 billion loss to $2 billion profit, they'll have to sell off their more liquid assets... but what if they don't sell it off, and even if they do, what happens when they get rid of their most valuable liquid assets and their situation doesn't change...

I think Sony will attempt to sell off their movie and music division, as those are their biggest and quickest sources of potential cash. This would be a mistake imo, they really should sell off their tv division, they have neither the resources nor time to turn that around.



If i lose access to this profile as well....I'm done with this site.....You've been warned!!.....whoever you are...

Happy Wii60 user. Me and my family are a perfect example of where hardcore meets casual and together mutate into something awesome.

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leatherhat on 10 April 2012

The tv business is the albatross hanging round their neck



ǝןdɯıs ʇı dǝǝʞ oʇ ǝʞıן ı ʍouʞ noʎ 

Ask me about being an elitist jerk

Time for hype

mjk45 on 10 April 2012
D-Joe said:
Turkish said:
NiKKoM said:
It's all our fault!! we didn't buy enough ps3 games!!


The PlayStation business is doing pretty good, thats why Kaz got promoted, its the toxic TV division that makes Sony losing money.

SCEJ,SCEE maybe

SCEA not

http://www.nikkei.com/news/category/article/g=96958A9C9381949EE3E2E295818DE3E2E2E6E0E2E3E0E2E2E2E2E2E2;at=ALL

>米国ではエレクトロニクスやゲーム部門が重荷になっており、累積損失が発生している。

No read it again it lumps the entertainment and games division together also the deferments are spread over the last 4 years  so it in no way means that SCEA isn't profitable .



Research shows Video games  help make you smarter, so why am I an idiot

Hyruken on 10 April 2012
logic56 said:
Hyruken said:
logic56 said:
lol at all these armchair analyst, Sony has 155 billion in total assets and a yearly revenue of 86 billion, they're aren't going anywhere any time soon, they just spend to much because of being to bloated, and with almost no communication between the divisions only adds to the problem. They problem was a lack of focus with too many arms spread all over the place, as soon as Kaz gets a handle on the TV business and get all their core divisions to communicate with each other they'll be back in the black in no time at all.


So your point is if you have assets and a revenue your alright? Maybe you need to look into companies that went bankrupt that were far bigger then Sony such as WaMu? They had over $300BN in assets and revenue of over $100BN but they went down. As did others like Enron.

What grates me more then anything is responses like this. The company has to be alright simply because it is ......... <----- enter your fav company here

Sony as a whole will not die but to quote Masaru Kato(Sony chief financial officer) "The situation is critical and we will carry out drastic reform. Nothing is sacred," Sony are going to have to appease the people they owe money to because if they don't they could pull the plug which has happened to thousands of companies and simply because it is .......<----- enter your fav company here. Doesn't mean it won't happen to them.

 

really??

Enron was hit by a scandal, fraud, accounting irregularities basically, bullshit CEO's who screwed themselves, key being you can't change that

Wamu was a bank, do I have to reiterate what happened to them in the past 8 years and why??

Sony's problem is exchange rate and being to bloated, they have entire businesses that are doing fine right now, the whole of Sony is being brought down by poorly managing their TV business and exchange rate for the most part, my point these are things they can change, these are things that after reforming and restructuring can swing back

and as for the quote well fucking A, I fully agree, and in the coming years I expect to see a much smaller very different Sony than I see now and that's a good thing, it's a great thing in fact. It will allow them to be more focused and focused Sony is best Sony.

but to all the it's teh sinking ship people no no it's not...


Wow you really have no clue do you? I wish I lived in your deluded world that is for sure! Because in your world you don't seem to know what 'bankruptcy' means. It seems to be something that happens only if you commit fraud. So by that logic if the taxman asks me to do my returns and I 'changed' a few figures means all my revenues are automatically wiped out! You do realise when you run out of money it doesn't just replenish itself out of thin air? Just as saying you have £12 in your bank when really you have £10 doesn't mean they take away your £10... While reading up on 'bankruptcy' I suggest you read up on 'criminal law' because if one person commits a crime doesn't mean the whole organisation get's punished for it. That would be stupid.

Likewise with WaMu I am very curious to hear your different version of bankruptcy that is totally different to another company running out of money? Or does it not count because it is a bank and the financial problems of the world don't apply to them? Because you do realise just like a bank one of Sony's main "businesses" as you said is to actually sell finance right? Or does that not count because it is Sony and they don't follow normal financial regulations?



logic56 on 10 April 2012
Hyruken said:
logic56 said:
Hyruken said:
logic56 said:
lol at all these armchair analyst, Sony has 155 billion in total assets and a yearly revenue of 86 billion, they're aren't going anywhere any time soon, they just spend to much because of being to bloated, and with almost no communication between the divisions only adds to the problem. They problem was a lack of focus with too many arms spread all over the place, as soon as Kaz gets a handle on the TV business and get all their core divisions to communicate with each other they'll be back in the black in no time at all.


So your point is if you have assets and a revenue your alright? Maybe you need to look into companies that went bankrupt that were far bigger then Sony such as WaMu? They had over $300BN in assets and revenue of over $100BN but they went down. As did others like Enron.

What grates me more then anything is responses like this. The company has to be alright simply because it is ......... <----- enter your fav company here

Sony as a whole will not die but to quote Masaru Kato(Sony chief financial officer) "The situation is critical and we will carry out drastic reform. Nothing is sacred," Sony are going to have to appease the people they owe money to because if they don't they could pull the plug which has happened to thousands of companies and simply because it is .......<----- enter your fav company here. Doesn't mean it won't happen to them.

 

really??

Enron was hit by a scandal, fraud, accounting irregularities basically, bullshit CEO's who screwed themselves, key being you can't change that

Wamu was a bank, do I have to reiterate what happened to them in the past 8 years and why??

Sony's problem is exchange rate and being to bloated, they have entire businesses that are doing fine right now, the whole of Sony is being brought down by poorly managing their TV business and exchange rate for the most part, my point these are things they can change, these are things that after reforming and restructuring can swing back

and as for the quote well fucking A, I fully agree, and in the coming years I expect to see a much smaller very different Sony than I see now and that's a good thing, it's a great thing in fact. It will allow them to be more focused and focused Sony is best Sony.

but to all the it's teh sinking ship people no no it's not...


Wow you really have no clue do you? I wish I lived in your deluded world that is for sure! Because in your world you don't seem to know what 'bankruptcy' means. It seems to be something that happens only if you commit fraud. So by that logic if the taxman asks me to do my returns and I 'changed' a few figures means all my revenues are automatically wiped out! You do realise when you run out of money it doesn't just replenish itself out of thin air? Just as saying you have £12 in your bank when really you have £10 doesn't mean they take away your £10... While reading up on 'bankruptcy' I suggest you read up on 'criminal law' because if one person commits a crime doesn't mean the whole organisation get's punished for it. That would be stupid.

Likewise with WaMu I am very curious to hear your different version of bankruptcy that is totally different to another company running out of money? Or does it not count because it is a bank and the financial problems of the world don't apply to them? Because you do realise just like a bank one of Sony's main "businesses" as you said is to actually sell finance right? Or does that not count because it is Sony and they don't follow normal financial regulations?

edit *no not gonna bother*

the point...... you missed it completely



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Hyruken on 11 April 2012
logic56 said:
Hyruken said:
logic56 said:
Hyruken said:
logic56 said:
lol at all these armchair analyst, Sony has 155 billion in total assets and a yearly revenue of 86 billion, they're aren't going anywhere any time soon, they just spend to much because of being to bloated, and with almost no communication between the divisions only adds to the problem. They problem was a lack of focus with too many arms spread all over the place, as soon as Kaz gets a handle on the TV business and get all their core divisions to communicate with each other they'll be back in the black in no time at all.


So your point is if you have assets and a revenue your alright? Maybe you need to look into companies that went bankrupt that were far bigger then Sony such as WaMu? They had over $300BN in assets and revenue of over $100BN but they went down. As did others like Enron.

What grates me more then anything is responses like this. The company has to be alright simply because it is ......... <----- enter your fav company here

Sony as a whole will not die but to quote Masaru Kato(Sony chief financial officer) "The situation is critical and we will carry out drastic reform. Nothing is sacred," Sony are going to have to appease the people they owe money to because if they don't they could pull the plug which has happened to thousands of companies and simply because it is .......<----- enter your fav company here. Doesn't mean it won't happen to them.

 

really??

Enron was hit by a scandal, fraud, accounting irregularities basically, bullshit CEO's who screwed themselves, key being you can't change that

Wamu was a bank, do I have to reiterate what happened to them in the past 8 years and why??

Sony's problem is exchange rate and being to bloated, they have entire businesses that are doing fine right now, the whole of Sony is being brought down by poorly managing their TV business and exchange rate for the most part, my point these are things they can change, these are things that after reforming and restructuring can swing back

and as for the quote well fucking A, I fully agree, and in the coming years I expect to see a much smaller very different Sony than I see now and that's a good thing, it's a great thing in fact. It will allow them to be more focused and focused Sony is best Sony.

but to all the it's teh sinking ship people no no it's not...


Wow you really have no clue do you? I wish I lived in your deluded world that is for sure! Because in your world you don't seem to know what 'bankruptcy' means. It seems to be something that happens only if you commit fraud. So by that logic if the taxman asks me to do my returns and I 'changed' a few figures means all my revenues are automatically wiped out! You do realise when you run out of money it doesn't just replenish itself out of thin air? Just as saying you have £12 in your bank when really you have £10 doesn't mean they take away your £10... While reading up on 'bankruptcy' I suggest you read up on 'criminal law' because if one person commits a crime doesn't mean the whole organisation get's punished for it. That would be stupid.

Likewise with WaMu I am very curious to hear your different version of bankruptcy that is totally different to another company running out of money? Or does it not count because it is a bank and the financial problems of the world don't apply to them? Because you do realise just like a bank one of Sony's main "businesses" as you said is to actually sell finance right? Or does that not count because it is Sony and they don't follow normal financial regulations?

edit *no not gonna bother*

the point...... you missed it completely

I missed the point? I guess I did because I see no point to what you said. Just like the photo, pointless.

Where as my whole point was to show your theory of some companies are too big to go under is false.



logic56 on 11 April 2012
Hyruken said:
 

I missed the point? I guess I did because I see no point to what you said. Just like the photo, pointless.

Where as my whole point was to show your theory of some companies are too big to go under is false.

because I said that right?

<----------------- my point

 your head ----------------->

edit: this site is beginning to be quite amusing, god forbid anyone suggest Sony isn't completely doomed with no hope of turn around or there's something wrong with you, and when the fuck did they become "my favorite company" lol (that title belongs to Lego Group for me)



flagstaad on 11 April 2012
zero129 said:
This might be why Sony doesn't seem to be going all out with their PS4 (If the rumors are to be believed), as they want to make profit on it from day 1. Anyway i hope they can pull them selfs out of this mess.

I think it would be in their best interest to not sell a high powered console at a loss, maybe not with profit to be competitive, but at least not with a loss. I think the "leaked specs" could generate a nice and powerful console that can be sold between $400 and $450 without losing money, but I only hear complains that it should be a higher end machine at least 10x more powerful than a PS3 and Sony to take a $100-$150 loss on it.



Galaki on 11 April 2012
flagstaad said:
zero129 said:
This might be why Sony doesn't seem to be going all out with their PS4 (If the rumors are to be believed), as they want to make profit on it from day 1. Anyway i hope they can pull them selfs out of this mess.

I think it would be in their best interest to not sell a high powered console at a loss, maybe not with profit to be competitive, but at least not with a loss. I think the "leaked specs" could generate a nice and powerful console that can be sold between $400 and $450 without losing money, but I only hear complains that it should be a higher end machine at least 10x more powerful than a PS3 and Sony to take a $100-$150 loss on it.

Sony set themselves up to be seen as trying the loss-leader route. Of course, people are going to expect the same for PS4.



Pre-order limited edition Blue Slime Condoms

flagstaad on 11 April 2012
Galaki said:

Sony set themselves up to be seen as trying the loss-leader route. Of course, people are going to expect the same for PS4.

The question now is, Can they afford it again? and what will happen to their sales if they don't?