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Forums - General - The Falkland Islands debate

pariz said:
man-bear-pig said:

Argentina doesn't have a leg to stand on IMO. The Islands are 400 miles off of the Argentine coast, which is kinda like the UK claiming they own Iceland... Kinda. Also, the people of the country would prefer UK rule, so I don't see how any Global body could support the Argentine claim. However, if there is 60 billion barrels of oil found beneath the seabeds surrounding the Falklands ($7.2 trillion dollars worth using current oil prices or 15x Argentinas annual GDP) then, unless both governments can come to an agreement of sharing the money generated from it, then god knows what will happen... War perhaps? S. American bloc vs European (/US potentially) bloc. Very unlikely, but possible, especially considering nut-jobs like Hugo Chavez have a lot of political sway in South America.


The Malvinas were Spanish first and Argentinian later (since 1816) and when the British took control of the island they expelled the argentinian who lived there.  It's not about how far it is from its coasts. IT'S ABOUT THEY WERE TAKEN BY FORCE BY A COLONIALIST EMPIRE.

The people living in the islands are british, they were brought there because of its geopolitical importance and they used our hospitals until 1982. FOR FREE.


the islands were french and british first actually.  and spain bought the french rights and the islands spanish name comes from the french name. the british claim was never given up.

on top of that spain didnt even recognize the argentinian independence and the islands were not controlled by argentina at its time of independence, a revolting colony cant inherit other claims and spain never ceded rights of the island (which they didnt even have any more after agreements with the british) even when it recognized argentina.  



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pariz said:


The Malvinas were Spanish first and Argentinian later (since 1816) and when the British took control of the island they expelled the argentinian who lived there.  It's not about how far it is from its coasts. IT'S ABOUT THEY WERE TAKEN BY FORCE BY A COLONIALIST EMPIRE.

Just out of curiosity: Is that what they (officially?) teach you in Argentina, or some rogue teacher told you so, or are you smoking something you shouldn't?



The Falklands should be able to self govern independently: free from UK/Western Imperialism and free from Nationalistic Argentina.



I'm not Argentinian!



drkohler said:
pariz said:


The Malvinas were Spanish first and Argentinian later (since 1816) and when the British took control of the island they expelled the argentinian who lived there.  It's not about how far it is from its coasts. IT'S ABOUT THEY WERE TAKEN BY FORCE BY A COLONIALIST EMPIRE.

Just out of curiosity: Is that what they (officially?) teach you in Argentina, or some rogue teacher told you so, or are you smoking something you shouldn't?

Good point. Because that's all this is about actually. You ask that out of the presumption of those who think that the "otherness" is wrong, is alien, is what has been added to the "our" world. But you got it right... that's not what we are told to believe... that's how we perceive the world... In latin America and in other ex colonies too. In what you call the 3rd world or the underdevelopt world... we are pretty sure we still live in a colonialist world, in which countries are free and self dependent only nominally, cause corporations and whealthy countries decide our futures, because knowledge, technology and power have been unequally assigned. Funny how not sharing the discourse you have been told (and that you reproduce) makes automatically a "smoker" out of me.

Edit: I have never consumed illegal substances. Our countries produce for the developt countries. Yet the capital involved and the utilities are foreign, they come out of the very same countries that consume our cocaine and marihuana.



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pezus said:
man-bear-pig said:

Argentina doesn't have a leg to stand on IMO. The Islands are 400 miles off of the Argentine coast, which is kinda like the UK claiming they own Iceland... Kinda. Also, the people of the country would prefer UK rule, so I don't see how any Global body could support the Argentine claim. However, if there is 60 billion barrels of oil found beneath the seabeds surrounding the Falklands ($7.2 trillion dollars worth using current oil prices or 15x Argentinas annual GDP) then, unless both governments can come to an agreement of sharing the money generated from it, then god knows what will happen... War perhaps? S. American bloc vs European (/US potentially) bloc. Very unlikely, but possible, especially considering nut-jobs like Hugo Chavez have a lot of political sway in South America.

400 miles??? Iceland is 1100+ miles away from the UK!

Shut up and stop complaining, we own you now.

I find it funny that they only start complaining about the Falklands being theirs when oil is discovered. If the vast majority of people who live on the islands want to live under UK rule then I think that is the decider. The war has already been fought and it's too late now.



By hook or crook, its the United Kingdom's. As an American, I will always support their right to the island. Argentina simply wants something they cannot have to benefit their faltering and failing economy.

If you accept the Argentinian claims on the islands, then countless other territorial claims would have to be revisited - since this absurd claim would of been validated.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Dark_Lord_2008 said:
The Falklands should be able to self govern independently: free from UK/Western Imperialism and free from Nationalistic Argentina.


Thing is the Falkland Islanders overwhelming want to remain British. Kind of like the Gibraltans.



SecondWar said:
Player1x3 said:
I just wanna point out how hypocritical & shameless UK politicians are. Not a gram of fucking common decency or dignity in foreign politics. They want to claim an island that is thousands of miles away from them, but they don't recognize serbian sovereignty over kosovo. They conquered, enslaved and owned 1/4 of the world, owned lands they had absolutely no rights on, they supported separatist movement all over the world so they can divide & conquer easier, economically & socially crippled numerous regions over the world so they can easily profit from them and in the end they have some balls to talk shit to Serbia and Argentina...seriously,the BRITISH, out of all people on this planet, the BRITISH talk about land sovereignty...pitful

Difference is the majority of the Falklanders want British rule, while the majority of those in Kosovo want indepedance( although there is the Serb dominated area in Northern-Kosovo that rejects it). However, if you start intervening in every war of independance the world would be a bombed-out mess. Take whats going on in Mali for instance. The only path that is acceptable is the one South Sudan took and the way the SNP are doing it in Scotland. I respect the Kosovans right to decide their future, but if we are going to jump in and help them, why didn't we do the same thing in Georgia, and when the Russians did there what NATO did in Kosovo, why did we condem them? You can condem the West for having double standards in relation to Kosovo and South Ossetia/Abkhasia, but then to avoid having double standards yourself you should really do the same with Venezuela, Nicuragua, Russia etc for recognising South Ossetia/Abkhasia but not Kosovo.

Basically, global politics is a mess.


I didn't talk about other countries so its pointless to bring them up. And honestly, the only reason i think those countries recognized South Ossetia/Abkhasia is cuz they wanna counter and parry the westerners, not because they think its right. And the reason NATO didn't do anything is because they aren't that stupid to attack Russia over something so ''insignificant'' to them. Russian Army is no Taliban or Iraqi or Serbian Army. Although even against Serbia NATO used some pretty bitch moves, when they couldn't bring high enough casualties to serbian army, they started bombing bridges, hospitals, trains, buildings, TV stations, chinese embassies etc etc so that the people would put pressure on milosevic and make him retreat his troops from kosovo.

And yes, Kosovars have a right to decide their future, but they don't have the right to steal lands, take away territory and trum over a country 's sovereignty. Go educate yourself on UN Resolution 1244. I can just as easily declare the street where i live in and independent country seceding from Germany...and i should be given an international recognition, no?

Also, as much as you might find this hard to believe, Kosovo was MUCH MUCH MUCH better place to live in under Serbian rule than it is today. Today its just a disputed shithole whos only economic and financial health rely on drug trafficking and prostitution. Hell 1/3 of Kosovo ''leaders'' have been in some way associated with drugs.

But the thing is, neither Venezuela, Nicuragua nor Russia have been taking away and conquering so much foreign land and destroying its natives people sovereignty over it like the British did, in fact, no country did, so the British really should be the last people people should even consider asking in these types of issues.    



Player1x3 said:
SecondWar said:
Player1x3 said:
I just wanna point out how hypocritical & shameless UK politicians are. Not a gram of fucking common decency or dignity in foreign politics. They want to claim an island that is thousands of miles away from them, but they don't recognize serbian sovereignty over kosovo. They conquered, enslaved and owned 1/4 of the world, owned lands they had absolutely no rights on, they supported separatist movement all over the world so they can divide & conquer easier, economically & socially crippled numerous regions over the world so they can easily profit from them and in the end they have some balls to talk shit to Serbia and Argentina...seriously,the BRITISH, out of all people on this planet, the BRITISH talk about land sovereignty...pitful

Difference is the majority of the Falklanders want British rule, while the majority of those in Kosovo want indepedance( although there is the Serb dominated area in Northern-Kosovo that rejects it). However, if you start intervening in every war of independance the world would be a bombed-out mess. Take whats going on in Mali for instance. The only path that is acceptable is the one South Sudan took and the way the SNP are doing it in Scotland. I respect the Kosovans right to decide their future, but if we are going to jump in and help them, why didn't we do the same thing in Georgia, and when the Russians did there what NATO did in Kosovo, why did we condem them? You can condem the West for having double standards in relation to Kosovo and South Ossetia/Abkhasia, but then to avoid having double standards yourself you should really do the same with Venezuela, Nicuragua, Russia etc for recognising South Ossetia/Abkhasia but not Kosovo.

Basically, global politics is a mess.


I didn't talk about other countries so its pointless to bring them up. And honestly, the only reason i think those countries recognized South Ossetia/Abkhasia is cuz they wanna counter and parry the westerners, not because they think its right. And the reason NATO didn't do anything is because they aren't that stupid to attack Russia over something so ''insignificant'' to them. Russian Army is no Taliban or Iraqi or Serbian Army. Although even against Serbia NATO used some pretty bitch moves, when they couldn't bring high enough casualties to serbian army, they started bombing bridges, hospitals, trains, buildings, TV stations, chinese embassies etc etc so that the people would put pressure on milosevic and make him retreat his troops from kosovo.

And yes, Kosovars have a right to decide their future, but they don't have the right to steal lands, take away territory and trum over a country 's sovereignty. Go educate yourself on UN Resolution 1244. I can just as easily declare the street where i live in and independent country seceding from Germany...and i should be given an international recognition, no?

Also, as much as you might find this hard to believe, Kosovo was MUCH MUCH MUCH better place to live in under Serbian rule than it is today. Today its just a disputed shithole whos only economic and financial health rely on drug trafficking and prostitution. Hell 1/3 of Kosovo ''leaders'' have been in some way associated with drugs.

But the thing is, neither Venezuela, Nicuragua nor Russia have been taking away and conquering so much foreign land and destroying its natives people sovereignty over it like the British did, in fact, no country did, so the British really should be the last people people should even consider asking in these types of issues.    

I don't why it pointless bringing up other similar situations just because you didn't mention them. I was very young when the Kosovo thing was happening so no, I'm not very familiar with the intricate details, although I think I found out the current Kosovo PM is effectively an ex-terrorist. And there are a number of people who did declare the house/street/other etc an independant country (eg Sealand). Britain do have a very bad record when it comes to this subject, but you are wrong saying Russia have no record in that department. Russia used to (and to some extent still do) a masisve empire, in which the Tsar and his family commite numerous abuses of the population, and the there was the Soviet period. Venzuela happen to have their own territorial dispute, in which they claim about half of Guyana.

As I said before, global politics is a mess becuase every government is tainted by the actions of their predecessors.