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Forums - General - Are mandatory vaccinations good or bad for us?

Rath said:
Gilgamesh said:
Rath said:
The anti-vaccination movement is stupid, irrational and dangerous. There are few fields of pseudo-science that I dislike more simply because vaccination is so critical. If you keep vaccination levels above a certain percentage it keeps an entire population safe, if it falls below that level you get epidemics.

Statistically the risks from getting a vaccination are miniscule and the risks from not getting vaccinated are high. It's foolish to not get vaccinated against things like measles, mumps and rubella. This image from wikipedia shows why.


Hell, polio has practically been wiped out and smallpox has been wiped out purely due to vaccination.

Why on earth does your girlfriend not believe in hospitals? That's really just stupid.

It's complicated her mother does a different type of "healing" when people are sick. I dunno the details all's I know is a lot of people believe in it she's got business'  all over Canada.

Urgh. Fake 'healers' are a bane on society that cause pointless deaths.

I think it's called German new medicine. but do you honestly think a mother would put her whole family in danger for something fake like that?

I don't understand it but she tried something on me one day when I woke up with a kink in my neck from sleeping awkward I could barely move it and after a couple minutes with her I was looking left right up down no problem, it's weird I don't understand it and not sure what to think of it, but at this point it's hard to believe it's fake.



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Gilgamesh said:

I think it's called German new medicine. but do you honestly think a mother would put her whole family in danger for something fake like that?

I don't understand it but she tried something on me one day when I woke up with a kink in my neck from sleeping awkward I could barely move it and after a couple minutes with her I was looking left right up down no problem, it's weird I don't understand it and not sure what to think of it, but at this point it's hard to believe it's fake.


Apparently she would risk the lives of her entire family and everybody who she 'treats'. Because it is fake, just like the vast majority of those sorts of things. If you can find some reputable, peer-reviewed, double-blind studies which prove otherwise I might change my mind.

Looking it up on Wikipedia it appears it was invented by an anti-semite who thought that the medical establishment was a conspiracy by the Jews to decimate other races.



Rath said:
Gilgamesh said:
 

I think it's called German new medicine. but do you honestly think a mother would put her whole family in danger for something fake like that?

I don't understand it but she tried something on me one day when I woke up with a kink in my neck from sleeping awkward I could barely move it and after a couple minutes with her I was looking left right up down no problem, it's weird I don't understand it and not sure what to think of it, but at this point it's hard to believe it's fake.


Apparently she would risk the lives of her entire family and everybody who she 'treats'. Because it is fake, just like the vast majority of those sorts of things. If you can find some reputable, peer-reviewed, double-blind studies which prove otherwise I might change my mind.

Looking it up on Wikipedia it appears it was invented by an anti-semite who thought that the medical establishment was a conspiracy by the Jews to decimate other races.

Meh she highly believes in it, we both no nothing so can't be judging. 

Threads derailing back to topic!



Metallicube said:

Good for kids and old people/ those with weak immune systems? Yes. Good for anyone else? No. Better to let your immune system work itself and do its own thing. It's like George Carlin says, your immune system needs germs to practice on.

And I don't know about you, but I don't exactly trust getting shot with high concentrations of mercury into my bloodstream. Those who create the vaccines will always be one step behind anyway, since there will always be new viruses out there that are immune to it.


The mercury content used in vaccines are only trace amounts.

Most vaccines don't even use mercury.

Of the vaccines that use mercury, they use ethylmercury which is insoluble in water, easily expelled from the body and not linked to neurological damage.  You are thinking of methylmercury which is soluble in water, extremely difficult for the body to expel and is highly toxic.  In a single can of tuna you can find 400x the amount of methylmercury than the trace amounts of ethylmercury used in vaccines.  Anti-vaccine folks have yet to rationally explain how a vaccine can damage a person due to the mercury content when tuna, something known to contain hundreds of times more, does not.

Furthermore, vaccines provide inactivated viruses for your immune system to practice on.  That is why you develop immunity.

And finally, your closing statement is completely illogical.  Why would it ever be a bad thing to be immune to a virus?  Even though there are more viruses out there, your risk of infection and infecting others is significantly decreased; the least effective of the scheduled vaccines providing immunity to 95.7% of those who have received it.



Stefl1504 said:
curl-6 said:
Rath said:

The WHO apparently disagrees and thinks they should be destroyed.

Well, I think the WHO is wrong. 

The DNA of smallpox has been sequenced; it could be synthesized from scratch by an advanced enough lab with the right peope and knowledge, so destroying all remaining stocks, (assuming Russia wouldn't secretly keep stocks, and I don't trust them not to) would do nothing but rob of us the opportunity to learn about the virus and use this knowledge to save lives.

I trust neither in case of potential biological weaponry, not the US and not Russia, I think such health risks should be destroyed before giving anyone the opportunity to tamper with its genetical material, possibly creating a ultra-smallpox-virus, were vaccines may not be helping anymore or a new vaccine has to be found in order to protect people from it. About the possibility of rebuilding Smallpox - well doing something against it now is to late, but at least there isn't the possibility of an outbreak as long as no one artificially reproduces them. How often have we heard of catastrophies caused by "safe" facilities up to now.

On the other hand, we could say that humankind is once again on the edge of letting an 'animal' get extinct... well more like extincting it ;P

Yes, accidents have occurred, but to my knowledge, never under the kind of insane security smallpox is kept in, at least in the US. They don't even work with a whole virus at a time, even if it leaked which is unlikely under Level 4 Biosafety conditions it's just a chunk of non-functional DNA. It's been 28 years since they were moved to their current home, and so far nothing has happened. 

In my opinion, it's worth the risk. There is so much we can learn from it.



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vaccines are only stupid when it's for inconvient sickness, like the cold or flu.
people lined up for bird flu vaccines, was pointless

eventually vaccine resistant diseases will be all over and we will be in trouble, in reality we should use anti biotics and such more sparingly



Superman4 said:
curl-6 said:
DeadNotSleeping said:
Depending where you live, there's no such thing as "mandatory vaccination". All medical procedures in Canada require consent; if the parents refuse to have their children vaccinated then there's nothing anybody in Health Care can do about it.

Without a doubt the vaccine has been the most important and effective product of medical science and one of the most beneficial advancements in any scientific field. Bad science, illogic and loud celebrities have raised a lot of unfounded fears regarding vaccines, but the truth is that they are the safest way to protect one's self against infection and the best way to protect entire populations. Adverse reactions are exceptionally rare and usually manifest as a rash or flu-like symptoms. Anyone who believes that vaccines and disorders such as autism have a positive correlation should be taken to task and shown the facts; this might help them protect themselves and their children from a whole slew of nasty illnesses.

But there are those who have decided against them for ethical reasons, and while I may disagree with their conclusion, I find that rationale acceptable. Choosing not to be vaccinated for whatever moral reason is one thing. Choosing not to because of bad science is another.

If you want my advice, get all your shots as scheduled and be sure to continue receiving them throughout your adult life as recommended. There may not be mandatory vaccination everywhere, but there should be.


Could not have said it better.

The thing is, by resisting vaccines you're not only putting yourself or your children in danger, but the people around you as well; your community, your country, the world. A certain percentage of immunity is needed in a population to achieve "herd immunity," where epidemics cannot or are extremely unlikely to occur because there are too few vulnerable hosts.

After the MMR vaccine scare in 1998, where is was (falsely) claimed that then vaccine caused autism in children, many parents refused to vaccinate their kids. The result? Immunity levels dropped sharply, and outbreaks of measles and mumps skyrocketed. By 2008, measles had became in the UK again, for the first time since 1994.

Similrly, when religious extremists in Nigeria branded vaccine as a Western ploy to infect their children with HIV or sterilise them, and discouraged parents from vaccinating their children, diseases like polio made a dramatic comeback, ravaging not only Nigeria, but neighbouring countries.

That part I disagree with. There has been no proof that it does not cause it. In fact a vast majority of syptoms occur directly after injection. I am ok with vaccination because I understand the resoning. I do not ever get a flu shot because I would rather take my chances than their best guess as to what version will hit. I rarly get sick. What I do not like about the kids vaccine and the reason I waited as long as possible to get them for my kids is that they stack a number of them into 1 or two shots. This is where I feel the issues with Autism come in to play. 1 vacccine at a time over a longer duration would be much easier on the system. I would much rather get 1 shot per month for each issue. Instead of having 6 rolled up into one and given the same day. It kinda puts the body on fuul attack mode.

In spite of how difficult it is in science to prove a negative, every ingredient in vaccines have been so thoroughly investigated that the only conclusion to be formed is that they have no causal role in autism.  Autism is a behavioral disorder that, due to psychological development, only becomes apparent within a couple years after their vaccinations.  The autism rate for those vaccinated and non-vaccinated are the same.  Autism rates in those vaccinated have been closely monitored, and guess what?  Removing the 'scary' ingredients (scientifically harmless, actually) had no impact whatsoever.

Andrew Wakefield, the one who unleashed this hysteria only did so because he wanted to replace the existing MMR vaccine with one that he made.  His science was fraudulent, used blood samples collected without consent from children at his son's birthday party, lied to the parents where his data came from and was subsequently revoked of his license to practise medicine.  The man is a fraud.  He stood to reap billions if his vaccine was accepted.  Conflict of interest much?  

Meanwhile, the anti-vaccine crowd has been unable to provide any sort of evidence of a causal link, losing every court case and lawsuit they've initiated for that very reason.  Where is their proof?  Post hoc, ergo propter hoc (after this, therefore because of this).  That's it.  A logical fallacy that autism was diagnosed after receiving vaccines because of the vaccines.  Scientists have recently identified gene sequences that accurately predict the development of autism of children which puts the entire movement to rest because this development will happen regardless of their immunizations yet will only display symptoms around the same time.  

Andrew Wakefield is a false prophet, his lies ultimately responsible for hundreds of deaths and hundreds of thousands of infections.  I am thankful that your kids ultimately got their vaccinations but many aren't receiving them at all and it's putting people at risk.



usrevenge said:
vaccines are only stupid when it's for inconvient sickness, like the cold or flu.
people lined up for bird flu vaccines, was pointless

eventually vaccine resistant diseases will be all over and we will be in trouble, in reality we should use anti biotics and such more sparingly


Incovenient sicknesses like the Spanish Flu which killed between 50 and 100 million people? Influenza is usually not particularly deadly, but a pandemic of a particularly lethal strain can kill a significant percentage of the worlds population.

Also I don't think vaccine resistance is a huge issue? Vaccine resistance certainly didn't appear  in polio or smallpox. I know anti-biotic resistance is a real problem however.



usrevenge said:
eventually vaccine resistant diseases will be all over and we will be in trouble, in reality we should use anti biotics and such more sparingly

I agree antibiotics should be used more sparingly but vaccines work in a completely different way. Viruses don't build resistance in reaction to vaccines.

In 200 years smallpox never grew resistant to its vaccine.

Viruses like Flus can mutate quickly into a new form that old vaccines don't work on, but even then a new vaccine can be created that's effective against the new strain.



Mendicate Bias said:
Ancalagon The Black said:
Mandatory vaccinations are not a good idea. They used to be when all they did was cover the basics (mumps, measles, rubella, chicken pox etc.) It was tried and true and seemed to work well for a long time.

In the last 2 decades though they have been treating us as guinea pigs and adding things to the mix that simply do not need to be there.

These new vaccines that the drug companies are pushing are based on fear mongering with very little science involved. These are simply money generators and have been shown to have adverse side effects.

Examples.

H1N1 swine flu vaccination

(HPV) vaccine. They are even trying to give this one to boys even though it's been shown by the FDA that it does nothing to prevent papillomavirus that causes cervical cancer.

The yearly flu vaccine they cook up and have no time to test due to rapid mutation in the flu virus. (Kills more people than it helps)


Keep it simple and take care of the basics i say. These cocktails they try and pawn off on us these days are bad for us plain and simple.

Please stop talking out of your ass and show proof that the FDA said HPV vaccine does not prevent papillomavirus.

And I want scientific articles, not some bullshit blog.

Because we all know that being ignorant and speaking rudely makes your opinion that much more valid than the person you are disagreeing with!

Now, here's a link to one of those "bullshit blogs" that not only explains how the HPV vaccine is dangerous and ineffective but guess what? They source their information to the FDA website itself throught the article and at the end of it.

http://www.naturalnews.com/Report_HPV_Vaccine_0.html



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