Ail said:
Edit : Well my wife sold a few of my old PS2 games in a garage sale at 5$ each a few years ago, but I am sure not going to help gamestop, Best Buy or anyone else to make profit out of used games sales ... |
About as noble a cause as not wanting Ebay users to profit off of used furniture.
I LOVE ICELAND!
sethnintendo said:
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With my example of Mass Effect or basically any other recent popular game e you will get at least 15 -30 dollars or so and maybe more with the discount card and trade bonuses.
Yes, Best Buy is selling used games. I think they actually give pretty decent credit for most games too.
DarthVolod said:
With my example of Mass Effect or basically any other recent popular game e you will get at least 15 -30 dollars or so and maybe more with the discount card and trade bonuses. Yes, Best Buy is selling used games. I think they actually give pretty decent credit for most games too. |
Yep they started doing that about one year ago and their new games shelves went to hell so they lost the 400$ of new games business they were getting from me per year and the 10k$ I was spending per year on their mastercard credit card...
PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !
PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !
Ail said:
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If anything, the new game section at my local Best Buy is better than ever. Used games have their own section apart from the new games, and dedicated staff members for their video games section ensure that things stay neat and organized.
Out of curiosity, why do you seem to despise the very notion of preowned game sales (based on what I can tell from your last few posts)? Personally, I spend probably 1-2k per year on games, and it usually ends up split 70% new and 30% or so used. I usually buy games day one, but there are some games that I either wait for a price drop on, or I just buy preowned (assuming I can find a complete copy of the game with no scratches that I am happy with).
If it was not for preowned, my video game collection would be just a fraction of what it is now if you consider this gen and all of my classic games which can only be found preowned now unless you pay hundreds of dollars for the last few remaining new copies. The preowned games industry has been very nice to me, and I guess I just don't understand how anyone (even game publishers) could find anything wrong with it.
DarthVolod said:
Out of curiosity, why do you seem to despise the very notion of preowned game sales (based on what I can tell from your last few posts)? Personally, I spend probably 1-2k per year on games, and it usually ends up split 70% new and 30% or so used. I usually buy games day one, but there are some games that I either wait for a price drop on, or I just buy preowned (assuming I can find a complete copy of the game with no scratches that I am happy with). If it was not for preowned, my video game collection would be just a fraction of what it is now if you consider this gen and all of my classic games which can only be found preowned now unless you pay hundreds of dollars for the last few remaining new copies. The preowned games industry has been very nice to me, and I guess I just don't understand how anyone (even game publishers) could find anything wrong with it. |
My Best Buy new game selection has taken a huge hit since they started selling used games and on top of that they changed the gamer club to be a two tier club where you have to pay for the second tier and where most of the benefit are towards used games purchase.
Otherwise I despise used games because :
- I rather my money goes to the publisher and the developer.
- I think something is wrong when retailers make more money than the people actually making the games ( compare Gamestop revenues with most gaming companies, except Activision).
- I develop software for a living.
- The amount of my games purchase isn't really constrained by their price. ( and to be honest my credit card rewards pay for more than 50% of my gaming, it used to be Rewards Zone, now it's Amazon Rewards)
- In my experience the retailers that sell used games are the worse at providing deals on new games ( compare Gamestop, Best Buy and Amazon, sure Amazon does used too but not on the same scale and it doesn't affect their new games stock and they have the best deals..)
- The argument that the used games industry finances new games purchases isn't a 1 for 1$ as most chains that sell used games actually have programs that encourage people trading their games to buy used games with the money instead of new ones...
- I really hate Gamestop ( maybe because I am 40, it's not my age group...)
PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !
PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !
Ail said:
Yeah, the Best Buy gamer club is basically an exact copy of Gamestop's Powerup Rewards program at this point, and it is really useless unless purchasing used games. Sometimes you will get lucky with their magazine (which comes with the card now) and get a good coupon, but even those are geared more and more towards used games in recent months. Otherwise I despise used games because : - I rather my money goes to the publisher and the developer. This is understandable, but from my perspective as a consumer I am looking to get the best deal for me and not for EA or Activision or any specific game company. - I think something is wrong when retailers make more money than the people actually making the games ( compare Gamestop revenues with most gaming companies, except Activision). I don't see anything wrong with what Gamestop and Best Buy are doing exactly for the same reason I don't frown at used Bluray and DVD sales or used music cd sales ... there is nothing wrong with people selling their property secondhand. Someone had to purchase those games in the first place in order for Gamestop and Best Buy to sell them. Developers have every right to find new ways to make a greater profit. I would just suggest to them that screwing customers over in the process by offering them an inferior and broken product is not a very effective means of doing it. - I develop software for a living. Then you understand just how important it is to make a product that is user friendly which does not put absurd restraints on the consumer ... such is the case with draconian DRM and things like online passes which hurt even the loyal paying customer (I hate putting in codes every time I buy a game). Objectively speaking, a consumer is getting far less with a digital only product as a physical product could be resold, collected, borrowed out to a friend ect. A digital game looses all of these advantages which is fine, but I don't understand how any developer could expect anyone to pay the same price for it as though we were buying a physical game. - The amount of my games purchase isn't really constrained by their price. ( and to be honest my credit card rewards pay for more than 50% of my gaming, it used to be Rewards Zone, now it's Amazon Rewards) Price is a concern for a lot of people though and that is exactly why used games are appealing. Everyone would rather have a new copy, but they can't necessarily afford it. Used games open up video games to more and more people which means that those consumers may decide to purchase a new game. - In my experience the retailers that sell used games are the worse at providing deals on new games ( compare Gamestop, Best Buy and Amazon, sure Amazon does used too but not on the same scale and it doesn't affect their new games stock and they have the best deals..) Amazon does have great deals, but I would not sell Gamestop or Best Buy too short. When I got the Best Buy reward card (which I got in order to get the magazine coupons for a year ... one of those coupons payed for my membership immediately at purchase) I also got a buy 2 get 1 on new games sent to me in the mail a few weeks later. I would say that the best time to buy at Gamestop is when they have a buy 2 get 1 free on their preowned. You can basically get a bunch of games brand new (just tell the clerks you want to see the disc before you buy the game and make sure that everything is included) for dirt cheap. - The argument that the used games industry finances new games purchases isn't a 1 for 1$ as most chains that sell used games actually have programs that encourage people trading their games to buy used games with the money instead of new ones... I have worked at a Gamestop part time for 2 years now while I am in college (just putting any potential bias out there), and I must point out that we almost always have a trade bonus towards new games that are yet to come out (30% extra credit on trades towards a new preorder, or 40% if you have the power card). We ALWAYS encourage people to put the money towards new games that are coming out. That means more reserves for us, and better numbers which makes the store look better to management. There are times when we have a bonus towards preowned games, but there are plenty of incentives for preordering. We always try to tell everyone about preorder bonuses, midnights, collector's editions or anything else we can think of to get people to preorder and then pick up the game at release. There is also the power saver sale in the summer which discounts a bunch of new games (some of which are actually good). - I really hate Gamestop ( maybe because I am 40, it's not my age group...) I can only speak for my store, but I would say that most of my customers are in the 20-35 range with a few teenagers here and there and Moms/grandparents with their children that come sometimes. The vast majority of our customers (and most of our good regulars that do a lot with us) are in their late 20's to early/late 30's. 40 is not too far outside that range. It is not like Toys R Us at least with toddlers and grade school children running around all over the place. |
I really don't see online versions being massive this new generation. Last generation it was to early and by that I mean way to early. I suspect it'll be another generation before downloadable content actually catches up to physical and without a serious event I think physical media could even remain on the market for a third generation from the current one. Though a second generation from now physical media will be nearly defeated.
The problem will be the retailers and intelligent consumers. Say Sony wants to sell online games drastically cheaper then retail to cut out the middle man and make all the profits. The retailers will revolt even if the physical option is on their store shelves they will demand Sony keep the physical copies competitively priced.
So when will retailers disappear? Well retailers like GameStop and BestBuy will not disappear for awhile. They are very powerful. Even if big box retailers dissapear they will still have a difficult time taking out Amazon
-JC7
"In God We Trust - In Games We Play " - Joel Reimer
Fact is Sony to go digital entirely would need to get rid of retailers period. Retailers want a profit and say one of the big three maintains physical copies the retailers physical or virtual will support them. Sony would need to maintain its hardware availability on online retailers and even some physical ones. Three generations from now the retailers will be more desperate then ever to maintain a profit and hardware companies would need to maintain product availability.
Going digital is inevitable the question is how fast and how bad will it effect us? Film will go digital within 10 years entirely. Games between 10-15 and music between 5-10. Unless internet changes.
Their are uncertainties that could keep DD from killing physical copies ever. A major thing is the economy things are getting worse and internet providers are desperate for more funds. In Canada data plans are now available for internet. Now instead of paying for high speed internet you buy a plan the one I plan to change to is a 150-gig plan. But word is within the next ten years the amount of data will become less and less and more expensive. I have heard from a friend at well can't say that plans could become as low as 50-gig for the current price.
We also fail the uncertainty of a global internet crash. The internet is not invincible and a major power outage or global catastrophe could destroy the internet as a viable format. Things like an EMP war which could render the internet useless to civilians.
Many variables to consider. Though if an EMP war occurs video games will not be a priority or even available. We will have far more important things to worry about.
-JC7
"In God We Trust - In Games We Play " - Joel Reimer
| DarthVolod said: Can anyone explain to me what the advantage of doing this is? Maybe you love Mass Effect so you would want to keep the game anyways, but if this turns into a distribution system then the prices better be pretty low to make up for the cash back you could receive selling the game. Even if you are too lazy or afraid to sell on ebay or amazon you will still get 20-35 dollars at Gamestop, Bestbuy, or other retailers for your used game. Maybe if they lower the price of games to 20-30 dollars at release (not very likely I would imagine) it would sort of be worth it. I will never understand the draw of digital distribution. It just seems like I am paying more and getting much less all to avoid the minor inconvenience of driving to a store (which you will probably go past anyways assuming you work or go to school). If you preorder Mass Effect 3 and preload it (assuming they let you do that) then you will get to play it a whole 30 minutes to an hour before the midnight release folks who will have a copy of the game they can share, collect, or trade away for cash towards more games. Just seems like digital supporters are paying one hell of a price for virtually no advantage over physical. I get why publishers like it, but unless you work for EA it seems rather odd to support this. |
It has its perks, I have an absolute ****ton of SNES, N64, PS1, PS2, Gameboy and Ps3 games in my room that I'll never ever play again. They're taking up a lot of space, and in reality all I'm gonna do is sell them at like a car boot sale for like £1 each or throw them away. It's entirely pointless me having them - so DD is nice in that it saves a lot of space. It's the same for a lot of people. LIke I' move between home and university a lot and each trip I'm having to take a bag full of PS3 games... it's slightly annoying lol.
The convinience can be nice too, it's nice when you have **** all to do on a night in and can just download a new game or something. Albeit most pricing is rediculous it'll eventually come down to a reasonable price.
But yeah I think most people like me who want things to go to DD sort of believe that the pricing will become reasonable in the long term. It ultimately depends how they do it, but if the pricing is completely up to the publishers and it's just a competitive market then the prices will come down, as people will realise they can undercut the rest to sell more. In theory it should be less then whatever they charge through retail as the costs associated with the games are less, we'lll see what happens long term I guess...
| Joelcool7 said: Fact is Sony to go digital entirely would need to get rid of retailers period. Retailers want a profit and say one of the big three maintains physical copies the retailers physical or virtual will support them. Sony would need to maintain its hardware availability on online retailers and even some physical ones. Three generations from now the retailers will be more desperate then ever to maintain a profit and hardware companies would need to maintain product availability. Going digital is inevitable the question is how fast and how bad will it effect us? Film will go digital within 10 years entirely. Games between 10-15 and music between 5-10. Unless internet changes. Their are uncertainties that could keep DD from killing physical copies ever. A major thing is the economy things are getting worse and internet providers are desperate for more funds. In Canada data plans are now available for internet. Now instead of paying for high speed internet you buy a plan the one I plan to change to is a 150-gig plan. But word is within the next ten years the amount of data will become less and less and more expensive. I have heard from a friend at well can't say that plans could become as low as 50-gig for the current price. We also fail the uncertainty of a global internet crash. The internet is not invincible and a major power outage or global catastrophe could destroy the internet as a viable format. Things like an EMP war which could render the internet useless to civilians. Many variables to consider. Though if an EMP war occurs video games will not be a priority or even available. We will have far more important things to worry about. |
Retailers will adapt or die.
The smart ones who sell on customer service and choice ( ie Amazon) will thrive, the others will have to change and adapt... And there always will be retailers willing to sell the hardware( like Wallmart).
I've never said physical copies will diseappear, they can coexist and they will for a long time but like for music and books, things will have to change..
Concerning bandwith, the same thing actually is happening in the US. I discovered this week that my bandwith was actually capped at 250Gb/month with Comcast. The good thing is that with my wife watching movies on the net all the time, playing SWTOR, me watching movies on kindle, surfing a lot and downloading 10-15Gb a month from PSN, my highest month so is still 167Gb so I have room to grow...
If the Internet crash, video games are going to be last thing on your mind. Loosing you medical record or your bank record should probably be something you care more about ;)
PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !
PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !
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