By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony - Sony: We Should Probably Develop Less Games

happydolphin said:



Hey Marcus. I wanted to keep it short but out of friendship I'll give you your answers. Here I go: friends. definitely. ok shoot

1) Given that memory cards are mandatory (there is no argument here, it's a fact), yeah you're kind of right. But both you and I know the mass will go for the 4GB models. Here is the pricing scheme. (Wikipedia) agreed

4GB card will retail for $19.99, 8GB for $29.99, 16GB for $59.99, and the 32GB for $99.99 

Even being conservative, if going for the 8GB model, 30$ is far from covering the estimated losses for the Vita (which I would guess is anywhere from 50 to 100$ per unit, since it should take a full 3 years to recuperate). conflicted

Anyways, I was just trying to point out an example or two of loss-leading. The 3DS and 360 are/were other examples, and the cube was also briefly. At least you know what a loss-leader is now right? GC, yea, that was bad.

2) I was just saying Sony does have AAAs, and if you're worried they won't be long-living, that's a matter of developer competence and marketing, and I have no doubt ND will be more than capable of sustaining the quality of games like UC and TLoU or whatever new IP they come up with. agreed, but here is no guarantee TLoU will sell the numbers needed to be considered a AAA title. and if it doesn't. you alredy know whats going to happen, cause the situation never changes.

3) What will they do with new smaller studios, but increase their management and marketing burden? The best they can do is hire these people to create Indie and casual games. Yeah, that is a good idea I agree. But such studios would be useless in the short-term for Sony's bigger guns. Sony needs to focus on a select few flagships and push them down our throats and ensure very high quality, while on the other hand offering casual and indie content to please the temporary gaming need. agreed but for Sony finding that that Halo or whatever is going to be hell, and while great, their current studios won't get them that ip, no matter how good they are. 

i've said it once. i buy PS3 exclusive first, and this gen there are only 3 exceptions, excluding Move games. Sony has the games(shooters), but as you've said, it's not there market.

4) public, masses, same diff. Sony should certainly not fight MS on its turf at the moment, they don't have the firepower. They need to focus fire and differentiate, offer value to their customers asap. Twisted Metal is a good thing right now, gamers are looking for exclusives. Once they gain forces again, then they should make a serious effort at meeting MS on its turf. Just not now. i can't say masses and public, are the same thing, cause masses would mean in this context, majority, while the public equates to all gamers in general, and that public is often split between the genres they like the most, so you get the masses somewhere in that.

Sony doesn't have sellers is not true. They have them, but they need massive sellers, reaching to the 8Mil, 10Mil numbers like they had last gen. It isn't happening because their efforts are diluted, especially marketing. I remember when Crash was everywhere, Playstation was a killer brand. Where is that? That's what I'm asking for. To move "systems", you need a community. To create community, you need support and marketing. It's fundamental. agreed. the biggest points you've made are focus, diluted, marketing, and support.

their efforts are spread to thin, and that's why i recommend  8 ip a yr. 13-15 is way to many from a marketing standpoint imo. to many products, and not allocated of resources.





Around the Network
MARCUSDJACKSON said:

 friends. definitely. ok shoot ;) Listen, I can be an asshole, but I'll never make ennemy with you. Don't take my low blows too personally.

conflicted mmm, it's mostly just easy logic really. Read it again. To be more proactive I'll ask, what do you expect the losses are per unit on Vita?

GC, yea, that was bad. No actually it was only like 20$ or 50$ or something. Nothing too drastic. Much less than the others I mentioned. Actually it was the lightest loss leading ever I think.

agreed, but here is no guarantee TLoU will sell the numbers needed to be considered a AAA title. and if it doesn't. you alredy know whats going to happen, cause the situation never changes. A title is not judged AAA by its sales, but by reviews and quality metrics. People who say a game is AAA because it sold alot are retarded. The game is AAA and it hasn't even released yet. It's a simple fact.

agreed but for Sony finding that that Halo or whatever is going to be hell, and while great, their current studios won't get them that ip, no matter how good they are. You couldn't be more wrong M. Sony was able to have exclusives selling in 10-ish millions during the PS2 era or close enough. Crash, Gran Turismo, FFVII, FFX. I believe Naughty Dog can spearhead the initiative. Their UC is already at 5.5Mil, and has lots of potential. I see a string of IPs from ND that can propel Sony into high numbers again.

agreed. the biggest points you've made are focus, diluted, marketing, and support. Yup ;)

their efforts are spread to thin, and that's why i recommend  8 ip a yr. 13-15 is way to many from a marketing standpoint imo. to many products, and not allocated of resources.

I'd say 5 big IPs in a gen, push those hardcore and you're golden. The rest, make money with as usual, but don't expect monster sales. Go with low budget games as much as possible (like MNR).



happydolphin said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:

 friends. definitely. ok shoot ;) Listen, I can be an asshole, but I'll never make ennemy with you. Don't take my low blows too personally.

looks like we have allot in common lol. well on the site, i'm more reserved for some reason. i'll never take it personal. well i'm not an asshole, just overly sarcastic lol.

conflicted mmm, it's mostly just easy logic really. Read it again. To be more proactive I'll ask, what do you expect the losses are per unit on Vita? srry, but i'm not one to expect much, but i figured it would. i'll except being wrong if that's the case lol. i guess braking even.

GC, yea, that was bad. No actually it was only like 20$ or 50$ or something. Nothing too drastic. Much less than the others I mentioned. Actually it was the lightest loss leading ever I think. if i remember correctly, it only cost ninty $1. well that's what i heard then. Sony has been costing themselves money, and i'm sure it will end when PS4 is released, or they'll need help stayin afloat.

agreed, but here is no guarantee TLoU will sell the numbers needed to be considered a AAA title. and if it doesn't. you alredy know whats going to happen, cause the situation never changes. A title is not judged AAA by its sales, but by reviews and quality metrics. People who say a game is AAA because it sold alot are retarded. The game is AAA and it hasn't even released yet. It's a simple fact.

i know, and can agree with that, but others would argue with us in a lossing effort i'm sure lol.

agreed but for Sony finding that that Halo or whatever is going to be hell, and while great, their current studios won't get them that ip, no matter how good they are. You couldn't be more wrong M. Sony was able to have exclusives selling in 10-ish millions during the PS2 era or close enough. Crash, Gran Turismo, FFVII, FFX. I believe Naughty Dog can spearhead the initiative. Their UC is already at 5.5Mil, and has lots of potential. I see a string of IPs from ND that can propel Sony into high numbers again.  

i hope your right. the quality is there but i just can't factor that in with the result of what we've been seeing with Sony ip this gen. 

agreed. the biggest points you've made are focus, diluted, marketing, and support. Yup ;)

their efforts are spread to thin, and that's why i recommend  8 ip a yr. 13-15 is way to many from a marketing standpoint imo. to many products, and not allocated of resources.

I'd say 5 big IPs in a gen, push those hardcore and you're golden. The rest, make money with as usual, but don't expect monster sales. Go with low budget games as much as possible (like MNR). agreed





pezus said:
Starhawk will be another ~80 rated game after TM. I'm not too excited for any game this year :(

 

Try this on for size. Did wonders for me.

 



Gran Turismo will probably do 10 million
Uncharted 2 is going 6 million
Uncharted 3 will probably do the same or better

LittleBigPlanet going 5 million... God Of War III... Where the problem is ?

Heavy Rain sold 2 million so what ? It's not a "friendly game", many others game are doing 2 or 3 million. They should focus on three franchise and do nothing more ?



Around the Network
reviniente said:
pezus said:
Starhawk will be another ~80 rated game after TM. I'm not too excited for any game this year :(

 

Try this on for size. Did wonders for me.

 

That looks awesome.



pezus said:
reviniente said:
pezus said:
Starhawk will be another ~80 rated game after TM. I'm not too excited for any game this year :(

 

Try this on for size. Did wonders for me.

 

Good point, I'm mildly excited for Bioshock. Bioshock 2 did nothing for me so I'm hoping this one will be much better (most likely - considering Ken Levine is making it)

Ken Levine actually knows what he wants. He's ditching multi-player (God knows there are better venues for it) and concentrating on an all new complex, story-driven action game. Probably the reason they didn't name it Bioshock 3.



happydolphin said:
reviniente said:
pezus said:
Starhawk will be another ~80 rated game after TM. I'm not too excited for any game this year :(

 

Try this on for size. Did wonders for me.

 

That looks awesome.

Indeed.  That video blows me away every time I see it.



Well going back yes Nintendo doesn't give their developers complete freedom. But of the three they do seem to give the most freedom to their internal teams. I have heard it often from Retro employees and ever Rare ex staff that Nintendo gave them tons of freedom. I was upset about Retro working on Netflix rather then their own IP and talked with Retro staffers. I was told that they had actually wanted to work on Metroid.

Nintendo doesn't just give them freedom but Miyamotos projects often have developers given massive freedoms. Miyamoto has said multiple times that he is letting developers change and innovate giving them creative freedoms.

Nintendo has been giving developers a ton of freedom for a very long time. It has worked very very well for them. Of course sometimes Nintendo intervenes like Dinosaur Planet, but ask yourself why they did that? Their are several good reasons that have been given. But I personally believe this was because Rare was already looking to sell. Nintendo did not want to fund a title a new IP that Rare would take with them to who ever bought them. Why would Nintendo want to create another new IP for who ever bought Rare?

Nintendo's freedoms that they gave developers has been hugely successful. Skyward Sword, Mario Galaxy and several other titles. Nintendo has seen tons of success.

Also now the downsides people talk about like five year Dec cycles. If the game is coming from a successful developer like Miyamoto or maybe a studio like Naughty Dog or David Jaffe heck yes they should be allowed to take as long as they need to release a game.

I saw someone mention GranTurismo ya great example the game is one of the most successful titles ever released by Sony. Now I did not know the developer had complete freedom but it would make sense.

As for Rol's comment on hardware and launch line up. Well firstly I am not talking about giving control of hardware to developers. But a great example would be WiiU right now developers say Nintendo is giving them all the tools they request. This will lead to amazing support and products.

Sorry but from what Jaffe has said what Naughty Dog has said and what Insomniac has said Sony intervenes far too often and limits developers abilities. You wanna say how badly freedom has effected Nintendo well look how had Sony has done cracking down on freedom.

Sorry if Jaffe was given nearly complete freedom lets say like Miyamoto gets or Naughty Dog given the freedom of Retro or EAD. How different could this generation have gone if Sony had given Jaffe, Naughty Dog and Insomniac complete freedom?

PS all the problems people point out are things Sony themselves are saying needs to change. Such as releasing less games that are built better and supported more marketing wise. Say Sony gave the developers complete freedom instead of releasing 4 games per team per generation releasing only 2 but these games are not only better designed but they have a lot more marketing budget and longer legs.

I hear about problems with many big studios and one major problem is freedoms. Nintendo just had its most successful generation since NES and it was with more developer freedom then ever before.



-JC7

"In God We Trust - In Games We Play " - Joel Reimer

 

Just to clarify the comment was made about twenty employees leaving do to lack of freedom. I am not suggesting the whole Dec team be given complete freedom that would be a mess. I am talking the studios main developers the heads. Developers like David Jaffe, Miyamoto etc..etc.. the heads of major studios.

It works best if the Dec team has the freedom to create a product. It goes without saying that Nintendo , Sony retain some control say 10-20% to guide the gameshowever they should not hold their developers back or change their master pieces too much. But of course that freedom must be earned. If Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft build a new studio or purchase a rookie studio. Then training the staff and waiting for the studio to prove itself before taking off the reigns is smart.

But their is no reason at all that Jaffe, Naughty Dog or Insomniac were not given at least 90% control over their titles. They are all proven studios and very valuable assets who have proven themselves.



-JC7

"In God We Trust - In Games We Play " - Joel Reimer