LittlebigPlanet will be an amazing game....will not sell well

Final-Fan said: The more I see this game, the more awesome it gets. It's just a cutesy 2D platformer with a level editor. It's a very charming 2D platformer with great physics and infinite possibilities thanks to the user-content scheme. 2D platformers are old. I think many of us have a part of ourselves that still hungers for them, and I think gamers too young or new to have that old hunger may also be drawn in. 2D platformers aren't what the PS3 is for. The PS3 is for games. This is a game. PSN is for games that can thrive with a free online community. This is one. Just watching those videos made me want to play the old platformers again. But then again maybe that was just me wanting to rip the controller away from someone who had obviously forgotten those skills.

 Hey I love cutsey platformers with level editors.  You can like the game and not think it will do well.  Nothing would make me happier then for this game to take off because it would lead to even more customization options.

 I'm just not seein it.
 

Honesty this is the EXACT kind of game i want.  I want a games that are all user generated content.

 The game I want most like this is one where you don't even play the game.  You set everything up and then the game plays itself.  For example setting up stages for two oposing armies to go through etc.  

I hope it catches on mainstream, but it seems unlikely. 

leo-j said: So from an amazing gameplay trailor to IF WILL FLOP WII IZ GODZ!!!

 Look at Okami.   Amazing game.  Flopped though didn't it.

 Look at Mario Party 8.  Universally panned game.  Sold great didn't it.

 Quality is only one part of the equation. 

OriGin said: The problem with this game (though I have not played it so I cannot make final judgement) is the complication. It's way to complicated for the casual crowd that it is aiming towards (the physics are confusing and annoying and way too realistic for a cutesy platformer even to me as a seasoned gamer). For a game to be successful with the casual crowd, it needs to have a simple interface and no long drawn out system to create levels. This game will not be a system mover - it will become a hardcore gamer hit however as the game actually looks to be very promising if you're capable of something like that. It may eventually sell over 1 million copies world wide, but there is no way it will hit 1 million in any individual territory. I'm willing to place sig bets on the line on this one.

How do you know it is complicated?  Have you played it?  Do you know what's its control scheme is?

Opinions are one thing but I really don't see from what's been released so far how you can make this conclusion.

The simplest thing in the world can feel complicated if how to achieve your goal is not clear, and the most complex thing can seem simple if its clear how to achieve it.

 Plus, for a comparison to LBP I look at the massive uptake for Garry's mod for Half Life 2 (a mod so good Valve were able to start selling it) which basically allowed you to use the Half Life 2 engine to build stuff, stick stuff together and just have fun with physics - it was a breath of fresh air that showed that people do enjoy exactly the kind of pleasures LBP seems to offer.

 

OriGin said: twesterm said: OriGin said: The problem with this game (though I have not played it so I cannot make final judgement) is the complication. It's way to complicated for the casual crowd that it is aiming towards (the physics are confusing and annoying and way too realistic for a cutesy platformer even to me as a seasoned gamer). For a game to be successful with the casual crowd, it needs to have a simple interface and no long drawn out system to create levels. Actually, a casual game does not always be simple. Madden is one of the most casual games out there yet it also has the most complicated control scheme of any game out there. You have a completely different control scheme for passing, running, offensive tackling, defensive tackling, rushing, kicking, and I'm sure there are more. Each one of those control schemes uses every button on the controller and it's insane for even the most hardcore of games. Yeah, but that's madden and it's casual because it's a sports game. In Europe and Australia, Fifa is simple as cake and is popular as hell because it's casual. For the type of game that it is it way too complex for a casual audience. That is what I mean. A great example is Super Mario Sunshine, the controls became much more complicated in that game and it turned away a large amount of casual gamers.

 I still disagree.

Firstly - I'm not saying this game looks bad in anyway, I want to play it!

I just don't think it's going to be big because it's too complicated for the average user.

Maybe my control example of Mario Sunshine is a bad example (that game still sold a lot compared to what I think this will sell).

It's complicated by design, at this point in development it seems complicated to make the characters get to an area, and especially if you're playing with someone who isn't quite 'capable' it will become very, very frustrating.  I became very frustrated just by watching the game being played by the Sony reps because they weren't very good at playing the game.

The complication is in the 2d but 3d blocks (you move backwards to get onto the other blocks) that complicates things and will turn 'new' gamers off playing the game.

I guess I can't argue my point properly because you're not understanding what I mean by complicated.

It's the difference between design philosophies on Wii and PS3 in general.  If Nintendo made this game they would try and do it with two buttons.  Reports about the controls for this game involve both analogue sticks and most of the face buttons (during character and level creation etc).

Joysticks are complicated for new and casual users enough (we're probably mixing our lines of what we think about a casual audience is) as it is.

Madden is a Casual Gamer's game, but this is supposed to appease a very casual non gaming crowd.

I just believe that this will end up being a Core gamer hit and will not broaden the market like Sony are trying.  I'm willing to put a sig bet on it.

Nonsense. The level creation/customization aspects have been done before to a certain extent (though I don't know if they've been done in a platformer), but the art style, the cooperative elements, the heavy use of the environment, the physics-driven gameplay, these are all unique -- or certainly unique in this combination. No game is made 100% out of things we haven't seen before.


The devs weren't having trouble because it was complicated to get to an area, they were having trouble because it was hard (or maybe because they were nervous). Big difference. It may be hard to jump onto a tiny platform, but it certainly isn't complicated.

I don't know what kind of low-functioning institutionalized casual gamers you've been playing with, but I'm pretty sure that anyone over the age of 7 will be able to pick this game up in a couple minutes. The game defines accessibility: everything looks like real-world objects, and the obstacles all follow the mechanical, physical principles that we observe every day in real life. Nothing here is arbitrary the way it usually is in video games. There's no floating question mark blocks or freaky turtle-bird monsters ("I stomp on the turtle, pick up his shell, and kick it at the block? Why the christ do I do that?"), there's just wheels and balls and levers and gears. If someone can't figure out how to progress in this game, it's because they're not smart enough, not because they aren't familiar enough with games.

As for the controls, the full use of the button layout comes in, as you said, during level creation and emotes. In other words, it's completely optional. As far as we know, to just play the game, all you need to do is move, jump and grab. Two buttons, just like you said Nintendo would do.

The multi-layered 2D environments might be a slight hitch, but to me so far they look just like the backgrounds in Mario, where you jump up and land on a surface behind you.

I've linked directly to a "Make your 2-D own platformer" in this thread. I had a version that's been around since 1994. How you missedj it i'm not sure.

By your definition I could take Halo, replace Master Chief with James bond and say it's unique.

It is in the "not every single aspect is exactly like another game down to everything. Yet it's still not "unique."

This isn't even the first physics heavy game that lets you make your own stages on consoles this generation. Though it will be the first platformer to do so.

It's too late for me to read every post.


So let me just say this game looks absolutely gorgeous on the eyes, it looks like it'll be a joy to play and several joys to create in and it will actually do very well in sales.

yeah that's right, it'll sell a lot. And if you think otherwise your a curmudgeonly old man who yells at children from your porch.

Hmmm, so leo-j got banned. Is it permanent or temporary? Anyone know what he did? Honestly, even if it is temp, I am really surprised he doesn't get banned...like, every frickin' day.

The trick is to make the editor accessible. A LOT of old computer games had editing options of one form or another, but few games on the PC and pretty much NONE on the console give you the tools necessary to really do it right.(RPG Maker isn't exactly accessible to the casual market)

That's where LBP is unique. It's not just the editor, it's how the editor is implemented and how it's almost seamlessly integrated with the core platforming gameplay. I haven't EVER seen an editor like the one in LBP used in a console game. The closest thing to it is Spore, but Spore isn't a platformer, and the editor isn't as seamlessly integrated into the core gameplay as it is in LBP(at least from what I've seen)