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Forums - Microsoft - Xbox 720 'will support Blu-ray, might not play used games' - report

happydolphin said:
Reasonable said:
abhiram_33 said:
if Xbox uses blu-ray wouldn't they have to pay a royalty to Sony


They'd pay the BR consortium which includes Sony - but so what?  No different from Sony paying MS to put Windows on their laptops.  MS didn't put BR in 360 because they didn't want to pay - the added an HDD Drive they needed to pay a loyalty for - nor because they don't want to pay Sony - MS I'm sure is happy to pay Sony in principle since it gives Sony money to pay right back to MS for Windows.

MS didn't put BR in 360 because they wanted to go with DVD and keep the costs down and because they hoped - maybe still do - that their next console could be digital.  MS backed HDD simply to delay a winner and hurt PS3.  They didn't want HDD to win any more than BR and knew that although BR looked likely to win if they backed HDD with an add-on it might delay the result.

If they believe they don't need BR they will go digitial - but I think they will decide that the recession, amongst other factors, will have delayed the time they can go fully digital.  DVD I believe they will decide is too small this time due to rising game sizes - particularly if the console is more powerful the games are sure to get bigger.

They could go proprietaty - that's what Nintendo do - but that normally means no playback of other mediums - i.e. no DVD or BR playback, which doesn't fit MS's push for entertainment hub.

So I expect they'll either go digital (which I think would be a mistake) or push for digital but stick a BR in it as well.

I mostly agree except some parts which seem a tiny bit far-fetched like MS not wanting HDD to win more than BR. But I mostly agree. I'd add that I expect MS to launch two versions of the console. One digital only (like psp go), and one with BR. Either this gen (at launch or within the gen with remodels) or the next.


I don't think they wanted HDD to win (sorry if that was how it came across).  They wanted to stall a winner and at least prevent quick adoption of a new standard.  They also very much wanted to stall BR.  MS knew they were commited to DVD, they wanted DVD to remain dominant for as long as possible and potentially for a move towards digital vs physical as DVD dominance wanned.  What MS did was simply, they through their weight (but not all of it) behind was was looking like the loser for just long enough to prolong the competition.  This was very good for MS - it meant a lot of people would be unsure about buying a PS3 because they might end up with a dead format.

This isn't really a conspiracy theory - it was widely discussed at the time and seems almost certain to have been their strategy from what I've read.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

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Reasonable said:
happydolphin said:
Reasonable said:
abhiram_33 said:
if Xbox uses blu-ray wouldn't they have to pay a royalty to Sony


They'd pay the BR consortium which includes Sony - but so what?  No different from Sony paying MS to put Windows on their laptops.  MS didn't put BR in 360 because they didn't want to pay - the added an HDD Drive they needed to pay a loyalty for - nor because they don't want to pay Sony - MS I'm sure is happy to pay Sony in principle since it gives Sony money to pay right back to MS for Windows.

MS didn't put BR in 360 because they wanted to go with DVD and keep the costs down and because they hoped - maybe still do - that their next console could be digital.  MS backed HDD simply to delay a winner and hurt PS3.  They didn't want HDD to win any more than BR and knew that although BR looked likely to win if they backed HDD with an add-on it might delay the result.

If they believe they don't need BR they will go digitial - but I think they will decide that the recession, amongst other factors, will have delayed the time they can go fully digital.  DVD I believe they will decide is too small this time due to rising game sizes - particularly if the console is more powerful the games are sure to get bigger.

They could go proprietaty - that's what Nintendo do - but that normally means no playback of other mediums - i.e. no DVD or BR playback, which doesn't fit MS's push for entertainment hub.

So I expect they'll either go digital (which I think would be a mistake) or push for digital but stick a BR in it as well.

I mostly agree except some parts which seem a tiny bit far-fetched like MS not wanting HDD to win more than BR. But I mostly agree. I'd add that I expect MS to launch two versions of the console. One digital only (like psp go), and one with BR. Either this gen (at launch or within the gen with remodels) or the next.


I don't think they wanted HDD to win (sorry if that was how it came across).  They wanted to stall a winner and at least prevent quick adoption of a new standard.  They also very much wanted to stall BR.  MS knew they were commited to DVD, they wanted DVD to remain dominant for as long as possible and potentially for a move towards digital vs physical as DVD dominance wanned.  What MS did was simply, they through their weight (but not all of it) behind was was looking like the loser for just long enough to prolong the competition.  This was very good for MS - it meant a lot of people would be unsure about buying a PS3 because they might end up with a dead format.

This isn't really a conspiracy theory - it was widely discussed at the time and seems almost certain to have been their strategy from what I've read.

Sounds very far-fetched, but ok. :) Don't be shocked if I don't buy that.



Darc Requiem said:
sales2099 said:
MS keeps on stealing PS3 exclusives it seems


Can someone explains this line of thinking to me? MS hasn't taken any Sony IPs. If this referencing third party titles, which I'm sure it is, then it's not true. Third party titles are the property of their publisher, not Sony.



What they mean is that, by means of money-hatting, assisted marketing and general courting with 3rd-party devs, MS largely took from Sony their ability to foster exclusive 3rd party content on their platform, which was the norm for two gens before this one.



If it's true they're drunk and wanna be actors for a drama.



AstroMaSSi rules

i don't get the people who want MS too make it so that you can lend games to you're friends. the reason they don't (if true) want you to be able to buy used games is so that you buy a new game!

they will lose money on that lol




    R.I.P Mr Iwata :'(

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Darc Requiem said:
sales2099 said:
MS keeps on stealing PS3 exclusives it seems


Can someone explains this line of thinking to me? MS hasn't taken any Sony IPs. If this referencing third party titles, which I'm sure it is, then it's not true. Third party titles are the property of their publisher, not Sony.

PS3 has bluray. Wii and 360 do not. This rumor means MS just stole another PS3 exclusive :P. It was a joke. 

But ya, it stems from the notion that PS2 3rd party exclusive IPs vanished when 360 dominated. 



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Rainbird said:
[..]

Online performance is not Microsoft's only strength, and in fact, Microsoft are the ones who made it a must-have for consoles. That's one huge thing in favor of Microsoft and wanting to remove it is simply for the sake of cherry picking.

1. No, they wanted to be more visible for consumers, rather than just being for enterprise customers. VG247 ran a few pieces on how the Xbox came to be last year, you should read them.

2. Yes, clearly wanting your device on the market for as long as possible and making as much money from it as possible is something only Sony wants.

3. Huh? The 360? The 360 Slim? Which one are you referring to?

I don't see any 360 model that looks like this:

 or this for that matter: 

 I honestly don't see how Microsoft copied the PS2 with any of those designs...

4. DVD was the most sensible format at the time, which is why they chose it. I won't talk about HDDVD, as I have no idea what reasoning Microsoft had behind it, but the fact that Sony has had to allow installs to the harddrives of the PS3 tells you that bluray wasn't quite ready for primetime.

5. It's called being first to market, and like with #2, it's not something Sony started doing.

6. Seeing as how development costs started to skyrocket with this generation, wouldn't it be likely that developers also wanted to have their games on the 360? Especially seeing as how Microsoft went out of their way to make piece of hardware that was easy to develop for.

I'm not saying Microsoft hasn't learned lessons from what Sony has been doing, but it all comes back to the sentence "Microsoft always ends up following Sony's lead" still being blatantly wrong. You won't accept online gaming as an area where Microsoft are leading, and you think Microsoft is following Sony in everything they do, which is clearly wrong.

@ happydolphin

It's a matter of principle, as S.T.A.G.E. is clearly trying to make Sony look superior to Microsoft by spreading misinformation.

You're fighting a loosing battle, he'll just keep reciting some ridiculous points, honestly, I read his rebukal that I've removed from the quote box, and I just facepalmed myself. Approaches that would make GOOD business sense are now Sony's and the best as well as one of the first methods that has allowed us to game online from our home consoles is useless. It's obvious which way he's trying to spin the argument, kudos on the responses from you, 'least they're logical.



Disconnect and self destruct, one bullet a time.

happydolphin said:
Darc Requiem said:
sales2099 said:
MS keeps on stealing PS3 exclusives it seems


Can someone explains this line of thinking to me? MS hasn't taken any Sony IPs. If this referencing third party titles, which I'm sure it is, then it's not true. Third party titles are the property of their publisher, not Sony.



What they mean is that, by means of money-hatting, assisted marketing and general courting with 3rd-party devs, MS largely took from Sony their ability to foster exclusive 3rd party content on their platform, which was the norm for two gens before this one.


That's exactly how Sony got their third party content in the first place.



Darc Requiem said:
happydolphin said:
Darc Requiem said:
sales2099 said:
MS keeps on stealing PS3 exclusives it seems


Can someone explains this line of thinking to me? MS hasn't taken any Sony IPs. If this referencing third party titles, which I'm sure it is, then it's not true. Third party titles are the property of their publisher, not Sony.



What they mean is that, by means of money-hatting, assisted marketing and general courting with 3rd-party devs, MS largely took from Sony their ability to foster exclusive 3rd party content on their platform, which was the norm for two gens before this one.


That's exactly how Sony got their third party content in the first place.

I never said the contrary, but ... that's still mostly incorrect. There was much more at play that cause Sony to win over 3rd parties, they barely had to do anything, 3rd party devs were swarming to them. Reasons were:

1) Nintendo's iron grip on 3rd parties and game policies (which were once needed, but evolution never occured to remove them).

2) Nintendo's business decisions: keeping a cartridge format (higher manufacturing costs, slower delivery time, generally useless complications), higher royalties, the failed 64 DD, and so much more. Refusal to support fmv cutscenes and boasting in-game cinematics. Nintendo was in a mess, really.

3) Sony's reputation in Music, Hollywood and Entertainment in general. The dev-friendly sdks and especially the use of more modern technologies such as CD's, off the bat and support for fmv cutscenes (à la Hollywood).

I remember cause I was there ;)



goldeneye0074eva2222 said:
No used games? if this report is true. looks like i will not be buying an xbox720 period . that drm measure blocks any collecting to be had once this system has died off and replaced by another and if one of my games break i tend to buy a used copy why should I have to buy a 2nd new copy? if they only break any way i don't see the need plus what if a certain game i want is not in production any more.

Microsoft had better not include this ridiculous DRM this DRM makes these games un sellable. un valuable might as well go all download only and lose me any way!



Couldn't have said it better myself, plus not to mention it could create other problems like littering. Tons of usless used game thrown in a landfill. Unless they make bio-degradable discs.....lol thats a far far stretch. If this were to be true, they not shot themselves in the foot, but in every gamers wallet as well.