Forums - Politics Discussion - Federal court overturns Oklahoma ban on Sharia law

Kasz216 said:
aken909 said:
mrstickball said:
gameonbro said:
Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:
mrstickball said:
gameonbro said:
the way the right act in america is nuts. i really thing the stuff they do is to entice a holy jihad. same way they do stuff to try to start race wars. america is full of psychos ready to go for it now.

its funny how study after study showed the most acts and threats of terrorism come from the right but its always swept under the rug


I'm curious about this. Could you point me to these studies, please?

I could believe it. For whatever reason, the left wing (and i'm talking fringe left here) isn't very militarized, although you saw more violence from Occupy than from the equivalent Tea Party in the right, the far fringe left in America is generally more peacable, barring the eco-terrorists who are still more like large-scale vandals. The fringe right in America, however, has been quite scary from the 90's on ahead.

I would imagine incidents (whether these are threats, plots, or executed plots) from the American fringe right outnumber those of radicalized Muslims operating in the USA, but that many of them are minor and, while not being swept under the rug as gameonbro stated, are just not big enough to be noticeable

I think that's based almost completley on your definition of Leftwing... for this to be true I  think you'd have to make two conclusions.

1) Anarchists don't count as Left Wing because no government = smaller government.

However generally, Anarchists tend to vote Leftwing and are left leaning as seen by the fact that they are a big part of Occupy Wallstreet or at least were starting off.

2) Communist terrorist/freedom forces like FARC don't count as leftwing because while they preach communist revolution, they're probably going to just implement a generic dictatorship that replaces the last one.

Really a "what they say vs what they do."  Either way it's terrorism in the name of Leftwing Ideals.

Additionally, I'd watch out for some possible leftwing terrorism in Greece.  They're trying to liberalize their economy.  The last time that happened the minister in charge was killed.  The groups are out there.  They just haven't really had much reason to act lately.

 

for what i saw from the right since 2008.  the republican congress were the anarchists.   they would rather destroy the government and this country than help the president pass bs right wing laws that they in the past created.  but the populate as a whole is so stupid they let them get away with it and the so called msm dont help.   you have a right wing propaganda machine worst than al jazeera and the other networks that 90% of the time have republicans on the air talking lies out of their dung hole but theres noone there for rebuttal and host sit there and let it go on instead of punching them in their dicklickers with facts.


You, nor Mr. Khan have answered my question. You said there were studies that proved that right wing groups undertook more terrorist activities. I want that study, please.



RIGHT-WING GROUPS: The most recent swell of extremist violence began to emerge from right-wing militants in the late-1980s and 1990s. According to a 2005 FBI report on terrorism, these groups, which are "primarily in the form of domestic militias and conservative special interest causes, began to overtake left-wing extremism as the most dangerous, if not the most prolific, domestic terrorist threat to the country." Right-wing extremists champion a wide variety of causes, including racial supremacy, hatred and suspicion of the federal government, and fundamentalist Christianity. The Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks the activities of hate groups, suggests militia groups declined every year since 1996 but have seen a dramatic resurgence since 2008. http://www.cfr.org/terrorist-organizations/militant-extremists-united-states/p9236 You only have to mention the armed militia moment and the resurgence of hate groups and white power moments in the last 10-20 years especially since Obama was elected to know this is the case.

I'd note that the "LEFTWING" groups leaves out Anarcist groups... and in general isn't counting Eco Terrorism/animal abuse or any number of other single party leftwing issues.

In general, LEFTWING TERROISM in the source you provided means "Communists who want to spread communism." 

So essentially what your source is saying is "Militia groups > Communist Groups."

Counting Ecological Terrorism for Leftwing and Abortion bombers for Rightwing might get you different results.

What with Eco Terrorists being listed as the number 1 terror problem in 2004.  Per your own source.

Additionally calling Jared Laughner a MILITIA based terrorist is an extreme stretch... being one guy, and one guy who hated right wing polticians at least as much as leftwing ones.

Dude had a huge obsession with Zeitgeist, which I'd personally consider to be more of a "Leftwing" insane conspiracy theory movie then a rightwing one.



Anarchists by definition are neither left nor right wing. And honestly Eco terrorism generally is more along the lines of vandalism, rarely is it violence and killing. And judging people by the web sites they view is sketchy at best. We're both talking politics on a gaming site after all.

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Mr Khan said:
mrstickball said:
gameonbro said:
the way the right act in america is nuts. i really thing the stuff they do is to entice a holy jihad. same way they do stuff to try to start race wars. america is full of psychos ready to go for it now.

its funny how study after study showed the most acts and threats of terrorism come from the right but its always swept under the rug


I'm curious about this. Could you point me to these studies, please?

I could believe it. For whatever reason, the left wing (and i'm talking fringe left here) isn't very militarized, although you saw more violence from Occupy than from the equivalent Tea Party in the right, the far fringe left in America is generally more peacable, barring the eco-terrorists who are still more like large-scale vandals. The fringe right in America, however, has been quite scary from the 90's on ahead.

I would imagine incidents (whether these are threats, plots, or executed plots) from the American fringe right outnumber those of radicalized Muslims operating in the USA, but that many of them are minor and, while not being swept under the rug as gameonbro stated, are just not big enough to be noticeable

Outside of Black Bloc idiots in Oakland who came in and broke windows, the norm of violence regarding Occupy is the police using force to evict them from locations.  The violence has almost completely and totally came from the law enforcement side, using Miami Model methods.  As far as on the said "right" goes, you have had one individual who listened to too much Glen Beck, go off and was arrested for going to shoot up a Tides Foundation location.

There is a bit of an irony in that the Tea Party, as a whole, talks far militantly, but will go and apply for permits and so on, and go home, while the Occupy side talks more peace and non-violence, but gets into scuffles with law enforcement and towns.  I think a heart of the matter here is that towns HATE Hoovervilles and if you attempt to produce one, they will clamp down.



aken909 said:
Kasz216 said:
aken909 said:
mrstickball said:
gameonbro said:
 

for what i saw from the right since 2008.  the republican congress were the anarchists.   they would rather destroy the government and this country than help the president pass bs right wing laws that they in the past created.  but the populate as a whole is so stupid they let them get away with it and the so called msm dont help.   you have a right wing propaganda machine worst than al jazeera and the other networks that 90% of the time have republicans on the air talking lies out of their dung hole but theres noone there for rebuttal and host sit there and let it go on instead of punching them in their dicklickers with facts.


You, nor Mr. Khan have answered my question. You said there were studies that proved that right wing groups undertook more terrorist activities. I want that study, please.



RIGHT-WING GROUPS: The most recent swell of extremist violence began to emerge from right-wing militants in the late-1980s and 1990s. According to a 2005 FBI report on terrorism, these groups, which are "primarily in the form of domestic militias and conservative special interest causes, began to overtake left-wing extremism as the most dangerous, if not the most prolific, domestic terrorist threat to the country." Right-wing extremists champion a wide variety of causes, including racial supremacy, hatred and suspicion of the federal government, and fundamentalist Christianity. The Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks the activities of hate groups, suggests militia groups declined every year since 1996 but have seen a dramatic resurgence since 2008. http://www.cfr.org/terrorist-organizations/militant-extremists-united-states/p9236 You only have to mention the armed militia moment and the resurgence of hate groups and white power moments in the last 10-20 years especially since Obama was elected to know this is the case.

I'd note that the "LEFTWING" groups leaves out Anarcist groups... and in general isn't counting Eco Terrorism/animal abuse or any number of other single party leftwing issues.

In general, LEFTWING TERROISM in the source you provided means "Communists who want to spread communism." 

So essentially what your source is saying is "Militia groups > Communist Groups."

Counting Ecological Terrorism for Leftwing and Abortion bombers for Rightwing might get you different results.

What with Eco Terrorists being listed as the number 1 terror problem in 2004.  Per your own source.

Additionally calling Jared Laughner a MILITIA based terrorist is an extreme stretch... being one guy, and one guy who hated right wing polticians at least as much as leftwing ones.

Dude had a huge obsession with Zeitgeist, which I'd personally consider to be more of a "Leftwing" insane conspiracy theory movie then a rightwing one.



Anarchists by definition are neither left nor right wing. And honestly Eco terrorism generally is more along the lines of vandalism, rarely is it violence and killing. And judging people by the web sites they view is sketchy at best. We're both talking politics on a gaming site after all.

Not really.  Afterall Anarchists tend to group with leftwing people.   See Occupy Wallstreet.

Eco Terrorism.  Well now your just argueing with your own source.

As for Zeitgeist... unlike videogames, it's specifically a political "documentry" movie.

That's like saying that someone watching "Sicko" isn't indicitive of their political leanings.

I'd guess that if you brokedown the political affiliation of people who watched it... they'd lean democratic.

 

Heck, even Videogame sites though you could argue would lean firstly to libretarians, secondly to liberals with conservatives being underrepresented.  (Which is generally how I would argue these boards play out.)

You could argue this, because people who play videogames largely have a higher IQ, are younger and have a higher discetrionary income... all things which correlate with Libretarians and Liberals more then conservatives... and slightly more with Libretarians then Liberals.

Which is always the proverbial "turd in the punch bowl" for Liberals in those studies.  In general Liberal beliefs correlate with IQ and money... except for economic liberalism which actually is negativly correlated with those things.



I'm one of the staunchest opponents of Sharia law I know, but even I don't have a problem with it being used in civil cases where there is only one party (wills and such) or where both parties freely agree to it.



Kasz216 said:
aken909 said:
Kasz216 said:
aken909 said:
mrstickball said:
gameonbro said:
 

for what i saw from the right since 2008.  the republican congress were the anarchists.   they would rather destroy the government and this country than help the president pass bs right wing laws that they in the past created.  but the populate as a whole is so stupid they let them get away with it and the so called msm dont help.   you have a right wing propaganda machine worst than al jazeera and the other networks that 90% of the time have republicans on the air talking lies out of their dung hole but theres noone there for rebuttal and host sit there and let it go on instead of punching them in their dicklickers with facts.


You, nor Mr. Khan have answered my question. You said there were studies that proved that right wing groups undertook more terrorist activities. I want that study, please.



RIGHT-WING GROUPS: The most recent swell of extremist violence began to emerge from right-wing militants in the late-1980s and 1990s. According to a 2005 FBI report on terrorism, these groups, which are "primarily in the form of domestic militias and conservative special interest causes, began to overtake left-wing extremism as the most dangerous, if not the most prolific, domestic terrorist threat to the country." Right-wing extremists champion a wide variety of causes, including racial supremacy, hatred and suspicion of the federal government, and fundamentalist Christianity. The Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks the activities of hate groups, suggests militia groups declined every year since 1996 but have seen a dramatic resurgence since 2008. http://www.cfr.org/terrorist-organizations/militant-extremists-united-states/p9236 You only have to mention the armed militia moment and the resurgence of hate groups and white power moments in the last 10-20 years especially since Obama was elected to know this is the case.

I'd note that the "LEFTWING" groups leaves out Anarcist groups... and in general isn't counting Eco Terrorism/animal abuse or any number of other single party leftwing issues.

In general, LEFTWING TERROISM in the source you provided means "Communists who want to spread communism." 

So essentially what your source is saying is "Militia groups > Communist Groups."

Counting Ecological Terrorism for Leftwing and Abortion bombers for Rightwing might get you different results.

What with Eco Terrorists being listed as the number 1 terror problem in 2004.  Per your own source.

Additionally calling Jared Laughner a MILITIA based terrorist is an extreme stretch... being one guy, and one guy who hated right wing polticians at least as much as leftwing ones.

Dude had a huge obsession with Zeitgeist, which I'd personally consider to be more of a "Leftwing" insane conspiracy theory movie then a rightwing one.



Anarchists by definition are neither left nor right wing. And honestly Eco terrorism generally is more along the lines of vandalism, rarely is it violence and killing. And judging people by the web sites they view is sketchy at best. We're both talking politics on a gaming site after all.

Not really.  Afterall Anarchists tend to group with leftwing people.   See Occupy Wallstreet.

Eco Terrorism.  Well now your just argueing with your own source.

As for Zeitgeist... unlike videogames, it's specifically a political "documentry" movie.

That's like saying that someone watching "Sicko" isn't indicitive of their political leanings.

I'd guess that if you brokedown the political affiliation of people who watched it... they'd lean democratic.

 

Heck, even Videogame sites though you could argue would lean firstly to libretarians, secondly to liberals with conservatives being underrepresented.  (Which is generally how I would argue these boards play out.)

You could argue this, because people who play videogames largely have a higher IQ, are younger and have a higher discetrionary income... all things which correlate with Libretarians and Liberals more then conservatives... and slightly more with Libretarians then Liberals.

Which is always the proverbial "turd in the punch bowl" for Liberals in those studies.  In general Liberal beliefs correlate with IQ and money... except for economic liberalism which actually is negativly correlated with those things.



Well as far as Anarchists go, most Anarchists I would say are for little to no government authority. The anti-big government movment happens to be a cornerstone of the right wing and tea party movements. Which is to say Anarchists really are neither left nor right wing and most anyone who would call themselves an Anarchist would be unlikely to call themselves part of the left or the right regardless of how they voted in the last election. And one might even say a true Anarchist wouldn't vote to begin with. There are many different type of Anarchists with many different views but sharing one view that is not being beholdent to anyone but themselves, including deities and governments. And while i'll agree that you can judge a group of people who visits or views web sites and shows, that you still shouldn't judge the person.

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aken909 said:
Kasz216 said:
aken909 said:
Kasz216 said:
aken909 said:
mrstickball said:
gameonbro said:
 

for what i saw from the right since 2008.  the republican congress were the anarchists.   they would rather destroy the government and this country than help the president pass bs right wing laws that they in the past created.  but the populate as a whole is so stupid they let them get away with it and the so called msm dont help.   you have a right wing propaganda machine worst than al jazeera and the other networks that 90% of the time have republicans on the air talking lies out of their dung hole but theres noone there for rebuttal and host sit there and let it go on instead of punching them in their dicklickers with facts.


You, nor Mr. Khan have answered my question. You said there were studies that proved that right wing groups undertook more terrorist activities. I want that study, please.



RIGHT-WING GROUPS: The most recent swell of extremist violence began to emerge from right-wing militants in the late-1980s and 1990s. According to a 2005 FBI report on terrorism, these groups, which are "primarily in the form of domestic militias and conservative special interest causes, began to overtake left-wing extremism as the most dangerous, if not the most prolific, domestic terrorist threat to the country." Right-wing extremists champion a wide variety of causes, including racial supremacy, hatred and suspicion of the federal government, and fundamentalist Christianity. The Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks the activities of hate groups, suggests militia groups declined every year since 1996 but have seen a dramatic resurgence since 2008. http://www.cfr.org/terrorist-organizations/militant-extremists-united-states/p9236 You only have to mention the armed militia moment and the resurgence of hate groups and white power moments in the last 10-20 years especially since Obama was elected to know this is the case.

I'd note that the "LEFTWING" groups leaves out Anarcist groups... and in general isn't counting Eco Terrorism/animal abuse or any number of other single party leftwing issues.

In general, LEFTWING TERROISM in the source you provided means "Communists who want to spread communism." 

So essentially what your source is saying is "Militia groups > Communist Groups."

Counting Ecological Terrorism for Leftwing and Abortion bombers for Rightwing might get you different results.

What with Eco Terrorists being listed as the number 1 terror problem in 2004.  Per your own source.

Additionally calling Jared Laughner a MILITIA based terrorist is an extreme stretch... being one guy, and one guy who hated right wing polticians at least as much as leftwing ones.

Dude had a huge obsession with Zeitgeist, which I'd personally consider to be more of a "Leftwing" insane conspiracy theory movie then a rightwing one.



Anarchists by definition are neither left nor right wing. And honestly Eco terrorism generally is more along the lines of vandalism, rarely is it violence and killing. And judging people by the web sites they view is sketchy at best. We're both talking politics on a gaming site after all.

Not really.  Afterall Anarchists tend to group with leftwing people.   See Occupy Wallstreet.

Eco Terrorism.  Well now your just argueing with your own source.

As for Zeitgeist... unlike videogames, it's specifically a political "documentry" movie.

That's like saying that someone watching "Sicko" isn't indicitive of their political leanings.

I'd guess that if you brokedown the political affiliation of people who watched it... they'd lean democratic.

 

Heck, even Videogame sites though you could argue would lean firstly to libretarians, secondly to liberals with conservatives being underrepresented.  (Which is generally how I would argue these boards play out.)

You could argue this, because people who play videogames largely have a higher IQ, are younger and have a higher discetrionary income... all things which correlate with Libretarians and Liberals more then conservatives... and slightly more with Libretarians then Liberals.

Which is always the proverbial "turd in the punch bowl" for Liberals in those studies.  In general Liberal beliefs correlate with IQ and money... except for economic liberalism which actually is negativly correlated with those things.



Well as far as Anarchists go, most Anarchists I would say are for little to no government authority.

 

The anti-big government movment happens to be a cornerstone of the right wing and tea party movements. Which is to say Anarchists really are neither left nor right wing and most anyone who would call themselves an Anarchist would be unlikely to call themselves part of the left or the right regardless of how they voted in the last election. And one might even say a true anarchist wouldn't vote to begin with.

 

There are many different type of Anarchists with many different views but sharing one view that is not being beholdent to anyone but themselves, including deities and governments.

 

And while i'll agree that you can judge a group of people who visits or view web sites and shows, that you still shouldn't judge the person.

Which sort of disproves the original source then, no?

Either way, there seems to be enough to show why your original source is somewhat "disporved" due to it's methods of definition and seperation. 



No, but lets just agree to disagree.



As an uneducated european peasent I would like to know what the first-amendment of the american constitution is so I can built my own opinion on the matter... thanks if someone would be so kind to tell me that...



Stefl1504 said:
As an uneducated european peasent I would like to know what the first-amendment of the american constitution is so I can built my own opinion on the matter... thanks if someone would be so kind to tell me that...

Freedom of speech, press, peaceable assembly, etc. Basically, this law ran afoul of the establishment clause (Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of a religion) because it singled out a particular religion.



Kasz216 said:

1) Anarchists don't count as Left Wing because no government = smaller government.

However generally, Anarchists tend to vote Leftwing and are left leaning as seen by the fact that they are a big part of Occupy Wallstreet or at least were starting off.


While true anarchists would not qualify as being left-wing, most modern "anarchists" in western nations are not really anarchists at all. They are more related to communists ideologically speaking, with an odd mix of beliefs that could be described as "We don't want society to impose rules against other people, except for behaviours I don't agree with" ...