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Forums - Gaming - In your opinion, have Japanese games as a whole fallen in quality in this gen?

Mad55 on 27 December 2011
DarkDesent666 said:
Mad55 said:
You say sales alone dont make profit and state no other means of getting the profit. Just because a company doesnt make a game for a system again doesnt mean its because it did bad. The eternal sonanata developers release a game every blue moon their more well known for sound design what kind of expectations do you think namco had for that game givien the develepors history.Developers like hirunobu have stated they meet expectations with their games like blue dragon and lost odyssey. in my opinion making a budget jrpg only really benefits the ps3 more in japan not anywhere else. Also in another post you said the ff13 was hindered by the 360 bascially wheres the proof of that? You seem to be reaching real hard the developers have stated that they put everything they wanted to into 13 to make it complete. Your always gonna have extra game assets around from things that didnt fit or werent really needed. 


I said sales alone don't equal profit. Take LA noire, sold great, lost a ton of money. Usually when people make consoles games then stop making it on a console it's because it's not worth it and/or their last game did bad, it's one of the most common reason (another common one is the next gen comes out). Eternal sonata devs made 2 console games in a row then eternal sonata then switched to wii and then for the first time ever made a handheld game and are now  making another handheld game. You really think that's just cuz? Both those games you stated haven't gotten a sequel either and were backed and published by MS, without MSes funding they would have lost money. In developers/publsihers opinions (as shown by their actions) making it on 360 isn't worth it unless MS is paying you and even then might not be.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/ffxiii-has-plenty-of-dlc-material-report It was all over the net, how did you miss it. What's more likely, they cut the content because they didn't wnat to add another 2 discs on the 360 or because they felt the game would be worse with it?

ishiki said:
particularly... since the only thing the 360 can essentially do everything the ps3 can except hold 50gb in videos. I mean, the game was not magically linear because of the 360. It was a design choice. As was lack of Interactivity. Other games JRPG's on 360 have shown and as FFXIII-2 atleast in reviews seem to have pointed out, it's entirely possible to do all those on the 360. 


If your making a budget game, the PS3 isn't really the best platform for JRPG's, particularly in japan, the DS and PSP were. Which is why many went there.

 

Oh I agree FFXIII would have been crap either way, but they cut a ton of content because of the 360 and if they knew they might be porting it later it could have influenced their design choice in making it linear. Linear is alot easier with multiple disks then non linear. Also the ps3s spes if used well can handle better AI and more on screen action then the 360 can. 

It's the best console for a budget jrpg, though granted the handhelds are a more profitable choice but that's beside the point.

I see you just want jrpgs to seem like they really only belong on the ps3 as opposed to the 360. That link you posted never said those werent added because of the 360.Theres other interviews where developers of the team stated they got all the stuff they really wanted to into the game.ff13-2 is supposedly a much bigger game than 13 and will have dlc because the team wants it to have dlc unlike 13 which they felt was complete the way it was. those game  assets that werent added to the game would not have made the game great and they were obviously not essential. And those three areas would not have required 2 more discs to add. all the data being used up was from cg cutscenes not anythign else really. And im not sure about la noire but i think the developers lost money because they took to long making the game and the technology they used with the cameras was really expensive. Rockstar might have profited though. 



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Mad55 on 27 December 2011
ishiki said:
Mad55 said:
DarkDesent666 said:
Mad55 said:
The developers of eternal sonatas games have never sold well their previous titles have done worse so ill say thats not a good argument really and tales sales are proven to sell better on sony in japan ill give you that but in the western world its harder to tell as vesperia 360 may be the second best selling tales in the U.S. behind symphonia graces f will help better gauge all that though. I just think jrpgs can make a profit on either console if done right and i wouldnt say that the ps3 is the only place where jrpgs can shine and make profit. 

Sales alone don't make profit. They probably spent more making the games then ever before, espcailly since it was their first multiplat game and this gen multiplats have been more difficult and costly and they had to go back and add content for ps3 and they had to deal with. I didn't say ps3 is the only console jrpgs can shine but it's obvious that if you are making a budget game that it'd be prudent to only put it on ps3 rather then ps3 and 360 and especially rather then 360. Obviously the money MS was giving out was the only thing that even made it remotely worthwhile as neither company is releasing anything on the 360 and doesn't seem to be ever in the future. Also I don't think the games advertised when they released on the ps3 so if they got those sales with out advertisement or with less that says alot and really changes how the profit is spilt up.

You say sales alone dont make profit and state no other means of getting the profit. Just because a company doesnt make a game for a system again doesnt mean its because it did bad. The eternal sonanata developers release a game every blue moon their more well known for sound design what kind of expectations do you think namco had for that game givien the develepors history.Developers like hirunobu have stated they meet expectations with their games like blue dragon and lost odyssey. in my opinion making a budget jrpg only really benefits the ps3 more in japan not anywhere else. Also in another post you said the ff13 was hindered by the 360 bascially wheres the proof of that? You seem to be reaching real hard the developers have stated that they put everything they wanted to into 13 to make it complete. Your always gonna have extra game assets around from things that didnt fit or werent really needed. 

particularly... since the only thing the 360 can essentially do everything the ps3 can except hold 50gb in videos. I mean, the game was not magically linear because of the 360. It was a design choice. As was lack of Interactivity. Other games JRPG's on 360 have shown and as FFXIII-2 atleast in reviews seem to have pointed out, it's entirely possible to do all those on the 360.  I still enjoyed it though, as I found it addicting and fun. But I understand the faults, and the reason why people would dislike this game.

If your making a budget game, the PS3 isn't really the best platform for JRPG's, particularly in japan, the DS and PSP were. Which is why many went there.

Ill agree with all of that lol. 



DarkDesent666 on 27 December 2011
Mad55 said:
I see you just want jrpgs to seem like they really only belong on the ps3 as opposed to the 360. That link you posted never said those werent added because of the 360.Theres other interviews where developers of the team stated they got all the stuff they really wanted to into the game.ff13-2 is supposedly a much bigger game than 13 and will have dlc because the team wants it to have dlc unlike 13 which they felt was complete the way it was. those game  assets that werent added to the game would not have made the game great and they were obviously not essential. And those three areas would not have required 2 more discs to add. all the data being used up was from cg cutscenes not anythign else really. And im not sure about la noire but i think the developers lost money because they took to long making the game and the technology they used with the cameras was really expensive. Rockstar might have profited though. 

There are others that said it's because of the 360 not to mention the fact that it's obvious having issues with 360s size already. There's something called PR aka lying your ass off, MS is really good at it, also the really implies they wanted more things in it just not as badly. The reason they didn't put dlc on for FFXIII is because there would be a massive backlash because everyone would say/think/know that they only cut the content because of the 360 size and even if they gave it for free (which they wouldn't) it would be admitting the 360s effected development of the game something which MS and square denied excessively (despite being true). With 13-2 no one gives a shit and I doubt it's a bigger game square footage wise, it might seem bigger if they get ride of those straight lines they call maps. It would have required 2 disks, the GB was almost neough to fill one then you have redundant data, it would have equaled two more disks. 

They lost money because they spent a ton on making the game (partially due to length it took and technology they used yes) and no rockstar didn't profit game was a failure fincially wise despite getting a ton of sales. With low budget games it's usual best to stick to one console so you don't have to waste money porting it (and developing it to go around porting it) especially when the demographic of the game heavily favors one console. Instead of spending extra money porting it and half the sales on the other console you would have still got if you left it on one. 



scottie on 27 December 2011

Only Squuenix and partially capcom have fucked up this gen.

It's a shame that FF and RE were turned into the mess they are now, but two games does not make the entire Japanese gaming industry.

They produced some great Monster Hunter games, the best Zelda game ever, the best three Mario games since the SNES, a whole bunch of other Nintendo stuff that blows the GC and N64 generations out of the water. Even Sony has improved since last gen in 1st party.



DarkDesent666 on 27 December 2011
scottie said:
Only Squuenix and partially capcom have fucked up this gen.

It's a shame that FF and RE were turned into the mess they are now, but two games does not make the entire Japanese gaming industry.

They produced some great Monster Hunter games, the best Zelda game ever, the best three Mario games since the SNES, a whole bunch of other Nintendo stuff that blows the GC and N64 generations out of the water. Even Sony has improved since last gen in 1st party.

Bandai has gone pretty downhill too.



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scottie on 27 December 2011
DarkDesent666 said:
scottie said:
Only Squuenix and partially capcom have fucked up this gen.

It's a shame that FF and RE were turned into the mess they are now, but two games does not make the entire Japanese gaming industry.

They produced some great Monster Hunter games, the best Zelda game ever, the best three Mario games since the SNES, a whole bunch of other Nintendo stuff that blows the GC and N64 generations out of the water. Even Sony has improved since last gen in 1st party.

Bandai has gone pretty downhill too.


Bandai was ever up the hill? :P



DarkDesent666 on 27 December 2011
scottie said:
Bandai was ever up the hill? :P


Eh, my cousin always buys dragonball games for I have no idea why and the ps3 ones are absolute shit and the ps2 ones were pretty fun. Soul caliber wasn't as good as last gen either, pretty much all their games have gone downhill. Also I know they were suppossed to take care of the online in dark souls and totally messed that, demon souls is better for online. So their yeah, not doing good this gen. 



scottie on 27 December 2011
DarkDesent666 said:
scottie said:
Bandai was ever up the hill? :P


Eh, my cousin always buys dragonball games for I have no idea why and the ps3 ones are absolute shit and the ps2 ones were pretty fun. Soul caliber wasn't as good as last gen either, pretty much all their games have gone downhill. Also I know they were suppossed to take care of the online in dark souls and totally messed that, demon souls is better for online. So their yeah, not doing good this gen. 

Soul Caliber for GC was lots of fun, I'll admit



jonager on 27 December 2011

well i have to agree with you, i have yet to play a really great jrpg like ''psx great quality''



oniyide on 27 December 2011
ryuzaki57 said:
Nope. I play Japanese games with the same enthuthiasm as ever.

And if you observe closely you'll find that an increasing number of Japanese productions come West. Some years ago, who would have thought that games like Hyperdimension Neptune, Atelier Totori or Xenoblade could hit our shores? Those games obviously found an audience (however limited) because they keep coming. Figthing games also achieve far bigger numbers in the West than in Japan (look at Tekken 6!) and last time I checked there was no western fighting game on the market... I should also mention the success of Professor Layton and Naruto games that are a big hit in the west for example....

No the reason why there is that feeling is because big Western games are just TOO big : look at any GoTY article there's Call of Duty, Skyrim, Mass Effect, God of War, etc. everywhere. Western games are now so important that the industry itself (and the press by the way) acts like it can do without Japan and its games, like they don't exist anymore... and that is sad.


um what, first off, there is this game called Mortal Kombat and it IS a western developed fighting game and it is damn popular.

Xenoblade, Atelier?? Please in the PS1 era we were getting JRPGS right and left on a regular. Alot more than we get know, and that was because a liitle game called FF7 came and blew the damn door off, these days, we dont have an equvilent to that and they just dont make that much JRPGs on consoles as they used too, numbers dont lie.