By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony - Sony Gets Other OS Class-Action Lawsuite Dismissed

Izo on 13 December 2011

It comes down to this. Sony protected themselves by slashing OS. It was a feature that not many used and alot of people would rather Sony lose massive amounts of money so 1% can keep there OS and they dont care about the 99% who will hack online lobbies and pirate games. I don't play these games, it sucks for the small amount of people who did use it but the idea that Sony is telling us what to do is laughable. They saw a big problem and reacted. You got the choice to keep OS if you wanted it if not that's your choice to make.

So I have these question for anyone who would like to answer.
Should Sony have kept OS even it would've cost millions in pirating?
Do corporations have the same right consumers do?
How would you handle this situation if you were Sony?



Around the Network
o_O.Q on 13 December 2011
fordy said:
o_O.Q said:
fordy said:
o_O.Q said:

"he's also holding a gun to your head"

no but his hacks affected others when they are used to cheat in games ( affecting users ) and to pirate software ( affecting publishers and developers although i believe it was never so extensive that it had a great effect but it probably would have eventually led to a situation like the psp if nothing was done about it )  

and i'll reiterate this one more time i absolutely believe that the user has the right to modify their console as they see fit but not when others have to suffer the consequences because of their actions


Alright, then you tell me, why wouldn't Sony putting tighter control on the PSN side of things not only solve the issue of cheating and piracy of online games, but also allow the purchaser to freely modify their console at the same time?

You want to know WHY Sony doesn't follow this path, along with all other online mediums? Because they believe they're entitled to not spend as much on server security as everyone else. Once again, when someone cheats on an online service, it's the problem of the service.

I won't even bother bringing up the PSP. You think piracy caused it's dismal sales, I say it was a poor software library, and only one of those affect sales of the actual console....

" allow the purchaser to freely modify their console at the same time?"

what modifications are you speaking of? do you think people should be entitled to modifications that impact negatively on others like cheating online or pirating software?...

as far as i understand those are the modifications sony was trying to guard against...

as i said before if these hacks affected no one else but the individual using them no would would care, so i guess what this comes down to is what modifications you feel people have a right to...

for me i would say all that bear no negative effects on others

"You think piracy caused it's dismal sales"

no i never said that i was talking about the way the software support for it outside of japan for it gradually died away because publishers saw no point in supporting a gaming system that was plagued so much by piracy and i'd rather not have the ps3 go down that path as well ( of course some people would but i'm not one of them )


Once again, Sony is trying to guard against a server side problem on a client side system. So far I have repeated this three times today. The user should have the right to do whatever they want to the system they purchased. However, rules must be abided when a service such as PSN is used. There are numerous ways to enforce this without strict client-side regulation. Just look at the PC and the 360.

I find it funny how you advocate the right way to do things "as long as it doesn't affect others". What about the OtherOS users huh? Those guys seemed to get affected pretty badly thanks to Sony, and all because Sony is trying to kill an ant with a H-bomb. I'll repeat again, there are other tried and true methods to do this....

Now, the fallacy about your PSP argument is the other widely pirated system of this gen, the Wii. So, what position did they end up again? I think I lost track after they spent the majority of the generation flogging both of their competitors in both hardware and software sales. Can you please tell me if they're still the record holder for this gen? What about the DS? Plenty of those R4 carts wandering around, yet despite the superior library, it's the DSes COMPETITOR who is suffering piracy the most? Please....

"So far I have repeated this three times today. The user should have the right to do whatever they want to the system they purchased."

you haven't answered my question either, does that include online cheating and piracy?

 

"Just look at the PC and the 360."

what about them? 


"What about the OtherOS users huh? Those guys seemed to get affected pretty badly thanks to Sony"

i agree and never said otherwise... but beyond that i say take it up with both sony AND geohot, not pretend that geohot is completely innocent as some seem to believe ( in fact if you ask me he was the source of all of these issues in the first place )

 

" other widely pirated system of this gen" " flogging both of their competitors in both hardware and software sales"

all i see there is you contradicting yourself obviously piracy wasn't as great a problem for the wii

these are links to claims by devs and sony themselves speaking on how big a problem piracy was for the psp :

 

http://www.psptogo.com/psp-news/2010-01/9755.htm

http://news.softpedia.com/news/PSP-Piracy-Upsets-God-of-War-Ghost-of-Sparta-Developer-163338.shtml

http://www.psxextreme.com/psp-news/1595.html

 

now of course there is the possibilty that this is all one great conspiracy and it was never really an issue but i would tend to think otherwise



fordy on 13 December 2011
Player1x3 said:

Im just saying, huuge majority of people dont feel ripped off, because huuge majority of people didn't care about the feature.


I'm sure that's comfort to whose who wanted a Linux box/game system, saw Sony ADVERTISE IT THAT WAY, and spend their hard earned money on it, only to have it yanked away from them. Yeah, I could picture them saying "Well what can I do? I'm just one consumer. I have every right to be lynched"



fordy on 13 December 2011
o_O.Q said:

"So far I have repeated this three times today. The user should have the right to do whatever they want to the system they purchased."

you haven't answered my question either, does that include online cheating and piracy?


For fucks sake, how can a system use an online service and cheat/pirate IF THERE ARE PROPER REGULATIONS ON THE SERVER SIDE? What is so hard to understand about this sentence? They can try, but it wouldn't work, the same way as before but WITHOUT intruding on a customer's freedom to modify their system.

o_O.Q said:

"Just look at the PC and the 360."

what about them? 

You're right. Xbox live and Steam are puny in comparison to PSN....PSN set the standard on the correlation between consumer purchased system and online play </sarcasm>

o_O.Q said:

" other widely pirated system of this gen" " flogging both of their competitors in both hardware and software sales"

all i see there is you contradicting yourself obviously piracy wasn't as great a problem for the wii

these are links to claims by devs and sony themselves speaking on how big a problem piracy was for the psp :

 

http://www.psptogo.com/psp-news/2010-01/9755.htm

http://news.softpedia.com/news/PSP-Piracy-Upsets-God-of-War-Ghost-of-Sparta-Developer-163338.shtml

http://www.psxextreme.com/psp-news/1595.html

now of course there is the possibilty that this is all one great conspiracy and it was never really an issue but i would tend to think otherwise

 

Yes, we all like to believe articles that back up our arguments, despite logic pointing in the opposite direction. So tell me, WHY was piracy not an issue on the Wii, yet it was on the PSP? The systems with the larger libraries tend to suffer more with piracy issues. PS1 was more pirated than N64. PS2 was more pirated than both Xbox and Gamecube (and I'd be willing to bet combined, severalfold). Failure to sell a system is not directly correlated to piracy. In fact, it could be more argued that it's INVERSELY proportional..



o_O.Q on 13 December 2011
fordy said:
Player1x3 said:

Im just saying, huuge majority of people dont feel ripped off, because huuge majority of people didn't care about the feature.


I'm sure that's comfort to whose who wanted a Linux box/game system, saw Sony ADVERTISE IT THAT WAY, and spend their hard earned money on it, only to have it yanked away from them. Yeah, I could picture them saying "Well what can I do? I'm just one consumer. I have every right to be lynched"

"Sony ADVERTISE IT THAT WAY"

i've seen several say this yet can't remember a single ad i didn't even see it on the box when i bought my ps3 what advertising are you speaking about specifically?



Around the Network
fordy on 13 December 2011
Izo said:
It comes down to this. Sony protected themselves by slashing OS. It was a feature that not many used and alot of people would rather Sony lose massive amounts of money so 1% can keep there OS and they dont care about the 99% who will hack online lobbies and pirate games. I don't play these games, it sucks for the small amount of people who did use it but the idea that Sony is telling us what to do is laughable. They saw a big problem and reacted. You got the choice to keep OS if you wanted it if not that's your choice to make.

So I have these question for anyone who would like to answer.
Should Sony have kept OS even it would've cost millions in pirating?
Do corporations have the same right consumers do?
How would you handle this situation if you were Sony?


Should Sony have kept OS even it would've cost millions in pirating?

That's a loaded question. OtherOS does not directly correlate with piracy.

 

Do corporations have the same right consumers do?

Any generic company-bought conservative would tell you that corporations are people. However, when does a person have the right to go into other people's places and modify their hardware? By this stance, corporations have MORE power than people.

 

How would you handle this situation if you were Sony?

The same way I've been advocating for months. Relinquish control on client based systems and tighten controls on the online service. People don't get trodden on and Sony keeps online cheating/piracy at bay.



Player1x3 on 13 December 2011
fordy said:
Player1x3 said:

Im just saying, huuge majority of people dont feel ripped off, because huuge majority of people didn't care about the feature.


I'm sure that's comfort to whose who wanted a Linux box/game system, saw Sony ADVERTISE IT THAT WAY, and spend their hard earned money on it, only to have it yanked away from them. Yeah, I could picture them saying "Well what can I do? I'm just one consumer. I have every right to be lynched"


it wasn't ''yanked away'' from them. They had a choice to keep it. they didn't have to agree with sony's user agreement.

I don't think i've ever saw sony advertise that feature, tbh



fordy on 13 December 2011
o_O.Q said:
fordy said:
Player1x3 said:

Im just saying, huuge majority of people dont feel ripped off, because huuge majority of people didn't care about the feature.


I'm sure that's comfort to whose who wanted a Linux box/game system, saw Sony ADVERTISE IT THAT WAY, and spend their hard earned money on it, only to have it yanked away from them. Yeah, I could picture them saying "Well what can I do? I'm just one consumer. I have every right to be lynched"

"Sony ADVERTISE IT THAT WAY"

i've seen several say this yet can't remember a single ad i didn't even see it on the box when i bought my ps3 what advertising are you speaking about specifically?


According to the manual, when Sony Computer Entertainment designed the PS3, "it was fully intended that you, a PS3 owner, could play games, watch movies, view photos, listen to music, and run a full-featured Linux operating system that transforms your PS3 into a home computer."

http://au.gamespot.com/news/6162316.html?tag=result;title;0



kitler53 on 13 December 2011
fordy said:
kitler53 said:
fordy said:
kitler53 said:
fordy said:
o_O.Q said:

really and truly i place most of the blame on geohot, had he not distributed  means to break through the security sony wouldn't have removed other os ( there would have been no reason to )

You mean the security on a device that he paid for? That bastard! How dare he attempt to modify something that's his!

People here have to realise that this was Sony's attempt to regulate user purchased hardware in order to save money on server-side security. After this debacle, as well as the hacking attempts on a lax security PSN, it has come back to bite them on the ass.

Now, if Sony was handing out PS3s for free, then you wouldn't hear me complaining. Sony could do what they want with hardware that's still theirs, but this is hardware purchased by a customer. Are you really going to stand there and say that Sony have a right to do this?

yes.

I'm sure you're looking forward to the day when corporate entities tell you exactly what to do...


lolol, the crux of the issue is i believe in IP and you don't. i believe that individuals as well as corporations that invest in the creation of new things and new ideas deserve ownership of their work.  you believe you are entitled to other peoples work.

 

Your Strawman argument isn't worth answering, though I will break a few logical steps for you

1. Purchased hardware DOES NOT imply third party modification

2. Freedom for hardware you purchase DOES NOT imply piracy

People still have the right to pursue copyright infringement, with or without forcible enforcing client side security. Nobody is taking that away. Also, you're implying that people don;t want client side security ONLY so they can hack? Well then, we'd better make sure nobody out there is allowed to modify on their PC anymore, either!


you're jumping the gun by bring up piracy ... i haven't gone there.  the OS on the ps3 is IP and you have a license agreement with sony with regards to what you can do with it....and it ain't much.    and a ps3 isn't a PC -- you're license agreement with MS's windows isn't your license agreement with Sony's OS.  if you don't like it then do the proper consumer responsibility -- don't buy it.  that's what we called a free market.



o_O.Q on 13 December 2011
fordy said:
o_O.Q said:

"So far I have repeated this three times today. The user should have the right to do whatever they want to the system they purchased."

you haven't answered my question either, does that include online cheating and piracy?


For fucks sake, how can a system use an online service and cheat/pirate IF THERE ARE PROPER REGULATIONS ON THE SERVER SIDE? What is so hard to understand about this sentence? They can try, but it wouldn't work, the same way as before but WITHOUT intruding on a customer's freedom to modify their system.

o_O.Q said:

"Just look at the PC and the 360."

what about them? 

You're right. Xbox live and Steam are puny in comparison to PSN....PSN set the standard on the correlation between consumer purchased system and online play

o_O.Q said:

" other widely pirated system of this gen" " flogging both of their competitors in both hardware and software sales"

all i see there is you contradicting yourself obviously piracy wasn't as great a problem for the wii

these are links to claims by devs and sony themselves speaking on how big a problem piracy was for the psp :

 

http://www.psptogo.com/psp-news/2010-01/9755.htm

http://news.softpedia.com/news/PSP-Piracy-Upsets-God-of-War-Ghost-of-Sparta-Developer-163338.shtml

http://www.psxextreme.com/psp-news/1595.html

now of course there is the possibilty that this is all one great conspiracy and it was never really an issue but i would tend to think otherwise

 

Yes, we all like to believe articles that back up our arguments, despite logic pointing in the opposite direction. So tell me, WHY was piracy not an issue on the Wii, yet it was on the PSP? The systems with the larger libraries tend to suffer more with piracy issues. PS1 was more pirated than N64. PS2 was more pirated than both Xbox and Gamecube (and I'd be willing to bet combined, severalfold). Failure to sell a system is not directly correlated to piracy. In fact, it could be more argued that it's INVERSELY proportional..

"how can a system use an online service and cheat/pirate IF"

well firstly what does piracy have to do with connecting to psn? and an online system can be attacked and invaded regardless of the measures put in place

"You're right. Xbox live and Steam are puny in comparison to PSN"

never said so ( or implied so ) i mean't from the point of view of how are they relevant to your argument? does cheating not still occur on xbl? wasn't steam hacked just the other day?

"Failure to sell a system"

i told you before and i'll tell you again i was not speaking of the psp's hardware sales, i was speaking of its software sales and issues with piracy