The point is that, in your eyes, it is the better sim.  However, many more people see GT as the better sim when compared to Forza, and sales show this.  It doesn't necessarily mean that a game that sells less than it is of poor quality, just more people feel GT is of better quality.  As far as brand goes, yes it will help push the game for the first few weeks, but after that, it is more about content, quality, and people's enjoyment of said game. 

You may want to check the sales pages of both Forzas again.  Yes, Forza 4 had a better 1st week, but it also had a weaker 2nd, 3rd, and 4th week.  In 4 weeks, Forza 3 sold ~1.04 mil, while Forza 4 has sold ~967K.  That's a difference of ~73K.  The difference only seems like it will get larger, as Forza 4 has already dropped below 90K WW, something Forza hadn't done even after 10 weeks.  True Forza 4 was launched earlier in the holiday season, but we are already at the point where newer games should be starting to see boosts from the holiday season. 

I remember it being confirmed at TGS 2010 when Yamauchi said content didn't make it for GT5 so work had started for GT6.

Anyway i expect it to be a PS4 title within the first year. Looking at GT5P sales and the sales and content GT5 has, the PS3 doesn't need another GT imo.

That's just on this forum, and even then everyone who has played both Forza 4 and GT5 (even on this forum) say that Forza 4 is better. It's in the graphics thread (now locked), I made a tally.

Also your contradicting yourself. You just said GT5 is of better quality, but earlier you said Forza is a better game (based off metascore).

As for Brand, I would argue the other way around. Early sales go to the hardcore fans, who generally know about the game, people who buy the game a year later will likely go "hmmm... GT (or CoD or Halo), I've heard good things."

As for Forza sales, remember, Forza 4 released earlier in the year. Week 4 for Forza 3 is late November, where Week 4 for Forza 4 is the first week of Novemeber. Holidays boost sales, do get an accurate comparission, we need to wait for the holiday season to end. For now all we can say is they are selling about equally as well.

I saw that trend for Forza 3/4, but I still think it's too early to say Forza 3 will do better.

Also for total sales, you never know. If Forza 5 does release in 2 years like every Forza to date, I think it's more likely to be a Next-Box launch title. So Forza 4 might not see sales get cut off like Forza 3 did, and that might give it an extra 500k.

Your using one forum for your basis.  I'm using the entire gaming community.  And I didn''t contradict myself.  I said it has a higher score, but that could be debated, as reviews are partly opinion and there are also some people who put in lower scores just to get hits.  Never said it was better because of the higher score.  Regardless, GT's sales speak for themself. 

And your brand comment actually supports my opinion, not disputes it.  The hardcore gamers who rush to buy it first week are mostly fans of the series/brand, so they'll pick it up no matter what.  But, those people saying, "Hmmm...GT, I've heard good things" a few weeks later, are basing it on word of mouth.  Word of mouth can be spread that a game is good or bad.  It's the quality of that title that determines the word mouth, for the most part.  Someone isn't going to say, "Hmmm...GT, I heard it was complete shit", but buy it anyway because of its brand name.

While it is definitely not doing as well as Forza 3 at the moment, I will concede it is a little early in the holiday season to determine how Forza 4 will sell.  I still have a feeling it will underperform, but we should be able to determine for sure how things will play out in 3-4 weeks.

But what defines the entire gaming community? When I ask real life friends, or users who have played Forza 4 and GT5 on this forum, the all have said Forza 4 is better. The only exception is GoforGold who claims to have played Forza 4 for half an hour, but if you know him, he is extremely biased toward the GT franchise.

Reviewers are partly opinionated? Yes, GT is a major franchise, whouldn't that mean inflated scores? I don't think websites like IGN or GT gave GT5 a 8.5/10 and a 9/10 respectivly without reason. IGN said it best "GT5 is a 10/10 simulator in a 5/10 game."

I think we are looking at brand in 2 different aspects, and it's probbaly impossible to tell which is a bigger factor. You are stating that people buy it week 1 because they are fans of the series, and will buy it just because it's another game of the franchise. I am stating that casual gamers, who don't go on websites, will likely pick up brand name products because they have heard of the game. For example, Mario games on Wii continue to sell strongly years after release. I am claiming it's brand recognition that keeps Pokemon, Mario, and Smash Bros sales strong, even when the games are old. You are claiming it boosts week 1 sales more, but I guess it depends on the specific game to know which one of us is more right.

I think I am more right because GT5 and Forza are a type of game which appeals to casual gamers extensivly. Forza 3 for instance only sold 2 million it's first holiday, but went on to sell 4 million without bundles lifetime (Subtract the lifted sales during the duration of the bundle, and Forza 3 looks like it will have sold 4 million naturally). They aren't as casual focused as Wii Fit, or Super Mario Bros, but they are still the type of games where brand (not quality) will affect sales extensivly, like Halo.

As for Forza 4 sales, it may underperform, but it may sell on par with Forza 3. At least we agree, we need to wait to get a better picture.