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Forums - Politics Discussion - World War 2:Who was the right one?

 

Who was right in the long term?

Soviet Union 31 15.98%
 
Nazi Germany 53 27.32%
 
USA\UK 110 56.70%
 
Total:194
snakenobi on 11 November 2011
kennyrester said:


You read an awful lot into what I say. Where exactly did I "argue in full support of dum society,

when you say we US governement's defintion is a fact and that you blindly follow it

government taking voer liberty" etc?

when you say that governement's definition is a fact as you said about hologcaust genocide and anti-semitism definiton

you also say that US government can define anything the way they want aka your liberty is at stake

 

its all related and your one sentence acutally means that you cide witht the governement blindly without criticizing them for being wrong.

I know you didn't mean that but thats how it is,everything is related and you give up liberty in one place,you give up liberty everywhere

 

And why exactly did you decide I support the Iraq wars and all that? Because I quoted wiki quoting a US governmental report? 

i didn't decide,i was being sarcastic out there

what i was trying to say is that the way you were blindly following the us government as being right,you would also think the wars US gets in would be right

You also misunderstand a few things. I guess english isn't your first language so not gonna make fun of you about that.

i didn't mistunderstand anything and english is my first language,

in your two post replies you whined about having to write a long post and then leaving it but you continued the conversation.You tried to show me that you weren't interested but you replyed and when i replyed in the same way with sarcasm as stated above you though i didn't understand what was going on.


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Marks on 11 November 2011
enrageorange said:

Japan most evil -

Soviet Union second most evil

Germany third most evil

China fourth most evil - 

USA/CommonWealth fifth most evil

rest of Europe and Asia sixth most evil

Only innocient people during WW2 was obviously Greenland. Everyone else acted for their own benefits.


Also the only "losers" of WW2 were the middle east, and eastern Europe. Everyone else ended up in a better position then they were in prior to WW2.


I'm just wondering what makes you put China as more evil than the commonwealth? I'm not sure what China did besides fighting against Japan. 

From what I know I would order it:

Most Evil - Germany by far: 10 million Jews, Poles, Gypsies, Gays, etc. killed in the holocaust...plus starting a war in Europe that led to the death of tens of millions of people. That's worse than what Japan/Italy did IMO. 

2nd most evil - USSR: Stalin murdered million of people as well as Hitler, caused famines in Eastern Europe (Ukraine I think), plus many of the people they "liberated" from Nazi concentration camps went straight to Soviet prisons/work camps. Plus the countries in Eastern Europe became no better off under Soviet control than they were under Nazi control. Plus they're commies so that's pretty evil in itself :)

3rd most evil - Japan: Worst treatment of POWs by far, Rape of Nanking, ruthless warfare...I guess they didn't commit any genocide ala Germany/USSR though so I can't rank them higher than 3rd. 

4th most evil - Other axis countries that helped Germany such as Italy, Romania, Hungary, etc.: They helped Germany and must have known full well about what Germany was doing to the Jews and everything else. So I consider them evil for picking the wrong side.

5th most evil - Dickhead countries that remained neutral such as Switzerland and Sweden: The bystandards that sit by and watch are as bad as the bully when it comes to schools...so I consider these countries worse than the allied nations because they sat and watched while millions of Jews and other civilians were being killed. Plus were they really dumb enough to think that once Germany took over Europe they weren't going to get wiped out? Lol dumbasses if the allies had surrendered Sweden, Switzerland, Spain, etc. would have been just as German as France and UK. 

Not evil at all - USA, UK, Canada, India, Australia, New Zealand, Poland, France, China, Yugoslavia, other allies. Fought the evil axis countries. Sure they may have been in it for themselves but at least we were stopping evil in the process. 



Marks on 11 November 2011
sethnintendo said:
Marks said:
Clearly Japan was right. Rising Sun FTW.


You should vote for Japan in my WWII Thread. They still don't have a vote.


haha I was just kidding about Japan, but I'll check your thread out. 



snakenobi on 11 November 2011
Marks said:

Canada, India, Australia, New Zealand, Poland, France, China, Yugoslavia, other allies. Fought the evil axis countries.

These countries i agree with you

Switzerland and Sweden

good they resisted

nothing comes good of war

retaliation is same as starting a war or get into the war in the name of stopping evil

Not evil at all - USA, UK, Sure they may have been in it for themselves but at least we were stopping evil in the process. 

how the hell can say that UK and USA weren't evil?They killed innocent people in Japan,they stopped trade to japan aka economic warfare,they looted Axis nations

violence in the name of stopping evil is still a crime,a big one

that way we can also say Britain and USA were evil as they used economic warfare during the years leading upto WW2 and that nazi's and japan revolted,just a rhetoric example

Look up:

1)Japan trade halt by USA years before WW2,Japan used to get its resoruces from Japan as Japan doesn't have many resrources in its small land country

2)Transfer agreement 1933 ,USA and britain financial controllers threatened Hitler if he didn't work according to them,they would stop resource to Nazi Germany.It is one of the reasons hitler invaded poland and went on war with USSR as they had resources that could help Nazi germany get independent of USAUK control.Hitler was actually finding land for an independent jewish state in 1933.

3)And don't forget they put so much debt on germany's head after WW1

 

both sides were to blame,not equally but to say that USA and UK were not evil atall is wrong





Marks on 11 November 2011
snakenobi said:
Marks said:

Not evil at all - USA, UK, Sure they may have been in it for themselves but at least we were stopping evil in the process. 

how the hell can say that UK and USA weren't evil?They killed innocent people in Japan,they stopped trade to japan aka economic warfare,they looted Axis nations

violence in the name of stopping evil is still a crime,a big one

that way we can also say Britain and USA were evil as they used economic warfare during the years leading upto WW2 and that nazi's and japan revolted,just a rhetoric example

Look up:

1)Japan trade halt by USA years before WW2,Japan used to get its resoruces from Japan as Japan doesn't have many resrources in its small land country

2)Transfer agreement 1933 ,USA and britain financial controllers threatened Hitler if he didn't work according to them,they would stop resource to Nazi Germany.It is one of the reasons hitler invaded poland and went on war with USSR as they had resources that could help Nazi germany get independent of USAUK control.Hitler was actually finding land for an independent jewish state in 1933.

3)And don't forget they put so much debt on germany's head after WW1

 

both sides were to blame,not equally but to say that USA and UK were not evil atall is wrong




Yeah the allies (from WWI) weren't really thinking it through when they put all that debt on Germany after WWI. If they hadn't made such ridiculous demands for reparations and everything else that was in the treaty there may not have been a WWII. So that was definitely a fuck-up by USA/UK/France (and whoever else). 

And as for your bit on "economic warfare" I really don't see how you can call that evil or consider that bad. Economic sanctions are used all the time, even in modern times. Japan was invading everything it possibly could in the South Pacific and into China...so USA decided to cut off their oil supply which was a big deal since USA provided nearly all of Japan's oil. It seems to me like just a good effort to stop the Japanese advance...unfortunately Japan decided to retaliate on Pearl Harbor.

I will look up the 1933 transfer agreement you mentioned, I haven't heard of that. 

And yeah I know many civilians died in the bombing runs in Germany and Japan by the allies, but they were a necessary evil. I even stand by America's decision to use the atomic bombs. The Japanese didn't know the meaning of the word surrender back then, they were honorable people that would die fighting rather than surrender...drastic measures, i.e. the atomic bomb, were necessary to end the war. Who knows how much longer it would have gone on for, and how many allied lives would have been lost if they didn't. And as for the bombings in Germany I'm pretty sure the targets were factories/industrial areas...the target wasn't civilians. Civilian casualties were just collateral damage. 

I'm not saying USA and UK were perfect, but they did what was necessary to win a war. Killing 6 million Jews and 5 million or so non-Jews in the holocaust had nothing to do with the war, where as the Atomic Bombs (which unfortunately killed hundreds of thousands of civilians) was to force Japan to surrender. 



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enrageorange on 12 November 2011
Marks said:
enrageorange said:

Japan most evil -

Soviet Union second most evil

Germany third most evil

China fourth most evil - 

USA/CommonWealth fifth most evil

rest of Europe and Asia sixth most evil

Only innocient people during WW2 was obviously Greenland. Everyone else acted for their own benefits.


Also the only "losers" of WW2 were the middle east, and eastern Europe. Everyone else ended up in a better position then they were in prior to WW2.


I'm just wondering what makes you put China as more evil than the commonwealth? I'm not sure what China did besides fighting against Japan. 

From what I know I would order it:

Most Evil - Germany by far: 10 million Jews, Poles, Gypsies, Gays, etc. killed in the holocaust...plus starting a war in Europe that led to the death of tens of millions of people. That's worse than what Japan/Italy did IMO. 

2nd most evil - USSR: Stalin murdered million of people as well as Hitler, caused famines in Eastern Europe (Ukraine I think), plus many of the people they "liberated" from Nazi concentration camps went straight to Soviet prisons/work camps. Plus the countries in Eastern Europe became no better off under Soviet control than they were under Nazi control. Plus they're commies so that's pretty evil in itself :)

3rd most evil - Japan: Worst treatment of POWs by far, Rape of Nanking, ruthless warfare...I guess they didn't commit any genocide ala Germany/USSR though so I can't rank them higher than 3rd. 

4th most evil - Other axis countries that helped Germany such as Italy, Romania, Hungary, etc.: They helped Germany and must have known full well about what Germany was doing to the Jews and everything else. So I consider them evil for picking the wrong side.

5th most evil - Dickhead countries that remained neutral such as Switzerland and Sweden: The bystandards that sit by and watch are as bad as the bully when it comes to schools...so I consider these countries worse than the allied nations because they sat and watched while millions of Jews and other civilians were being killed. Plus were they really dumb enough to think that once Germany took over Europe they weren't going to get wiped out? Lol dumbasses if the allies had surrendered Sweden, Switzerland, Spain, etc. would have been just as German as France and UK. 

Not evil at all - USA, UK, Canada, India, Australia, New Zealand, Poland, France, China, Yugoslavia, other allies. Fought the evil axis countries. Sure they may have been in it for themselves but at least we were stopping evil in the process. 

the reason I put China in fourth is because the government killed a lot of its own people. All the infighting and betrayals between the Chinese communists and the corrupt government basically. Japan was almost an afterthought as the Chinese militaries wasted a lot of their resources fighting each other for control rather then defending their civilians from the Japanese.

Japan IMO is even more evil then either germany or USSR. They slaughtered absolutly anyone and everyone. Germany and USSR thought certain races were inferior. Japan thought everyone but them was inferior. They were by far the most ruthless to the civilians of the countries they invaded. Hitler slaughtered the Jews because he used them as a scapegoat. Stalin slaughtered his people to stay in control. Japan slaughtered people for no reason at all which IMO is worse then even for a bad reason. 

The USA and UK cannot be considered purely good. They took advantage of  A LOT  of nations during the war and after the war ended.

The rest of mainland Europe is also not pure because it was their ridiculous treatment of Germany after WWI that caused the German people to be desperate enough to allow Hitler to rule them.



lordmandeep on 12 November 2011

The thing is many do not know about what the Japanese did in China.



sethnintendo on 12 November 2011
lordmandeep said:
The thing is many do not know about what the Japanese did in China.


Raped and killed them.  Yep, I know.



Mr Khan on 12 November 2011
leatherhat said:
We (US, UK and ANZEC) should have formed a separate peace with Germany and continued on and crushed the soviets. Would have saved millions of lives in Eastern Europe.

A separate peace would have meant the survival of Nazism. Eastern Europe was damaged enough at the time, and eventually they removed Communism peacefully, albeit 45 years later

Plus Eastern Europe was not ready for democracy at the time. Only Czechoslovakia was fully democratic before WWII, everyone else was shot through with problems, and arguably Communism got Eastern Europe up to the standard where their people were ready for democracy (appropriate levels of economic development and well-enforced universal education)

In the long run, history mostly vindicates the conduct of the victors during WWII, with the only possible exception being the use of atomic weaponry on an already severely crippled Japan



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Player1x3 on 12 November 2011
Marks said:
enrageorange said:

Japan most evil -

Soviet Union second most evil

Germany third most evil

China fourth most evil - 

USA/CommonWealth fifth most evil

rest of Europe and Asia sixth most evil

Only innocient people during WW2 was obviously Greenland. Everyone else acted for their own benefits.


Also the only "losers" of WW2 were the middle east, and eastern Europe. Everyone else ended up in a better position then they were in prior to WW2.


I'm just wondering what makes you put China as more evil than the commonwealth? I'm not sure what China did besides fighting against Japan. 

From what I know I would order it:

Most Evil - Germany by far: 10 million Jews, Poles, Gypsies, Gays, etc. killed in the holocaust...plus starting a war in Europe that led to the death of tens of millions of people. That's worse than what Japan/Italy did IMO. 

2nd most evil - USSR: Stalin murdered million of people as well as Hitler, caused famines in Eastern Europe (Ukraine I think), plus many of the people they "liberated" from Nazi concentration camps went straight to Soviet prisons/work camps. Plus the countries in Eastern Europe became no better off under Soviet control than they were under Nazi control. Plus they're commies so that's pretty evil in itself :)

3rd most evil - Japan: Worst treatment of POWs by far, Rape of Nanking, ruthless warfare...I guess they didn't commit any genocide ala Germany/USSR though so I can't rank them higher than 3rd. 

4th most evil - Other axis countries that helped Germany such as Italy, Romania, Hungary, etc.: They helped Germany and must have known full well about what Germany was doing to the Jews and everything else. So I consider them evil for picking the wrong side.

5th most evil - Dickhead countries that remained neutral such as Switzerland and Sweden: The bystandards that sit by and watch are as bad as the bully when it comes to schools...so I consider these countries worse than the allied nations because they sat and watched while millions of Jews and other civilians were being killed. Plus were they really dumb enough to think that once Germany took over Europe they weren't going to get wiped out? Lol dumbasses if the allies had surrendered Sweden, Switzerland, Spain, etc. would have been just as German as France and UK. 

Not evil at all - USA, UK, Canada, India, Australia, New Zealand, Poland, France, China, Yugoslavia, other allies. Fought the evil axis countries. Sure they may have been in it for themselves but at least we were stopping evil in the process. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_State_of_Croatia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac_concentration_camp