By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony - Eurogamer gives Uncharted 3 an Eight, Comments go full retard

Why do I suspect the real issue isn't so much the 8/10 as the concern by some about "winning" some metacritic score competition?

8 is far from poor, is the same as the score they gave to Gears 3 so it's hardly that odd, and while compared to other reviews it seems at odds with the more consensus view, it's just a score.

How I wish we didn't live in a time of obsession when "scoring" things to assign value to them has gone overboard.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

Around the Network
Khuutra said:
Kantor said:
Khuutra said:

1. There is absolutely no reason for this to be the policy of Eurogamer. Two different people will have two different opinions, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with having two opinions put out by two people so long as it's made clear who those people are - and in this case it's very clear indeed, as each review is signed off on by the person who wrote it.

2. Reviews are not products or commodities meant to be targeted at specific audiences, they're opinion pieces meant to communicate the pros and cons and overall picture of a game viewed through the lens of a particular value set. You're not writing it for the guys who love Uncharted, you're writing it for everyone, including the 200 million gamers who do not play Uncharted games. As such the only thing thatm atters is the perspective of the person writing it, and making your piece different to suit the opinion of someone else entirely is dishonest journalism and irresponsible reviewing, because it does not communicate the value of the game as you see it.

This review was fine as a piece of writing and communicated valid criticism. It's fine not to agree with it and even debate the points of contention, but anyone who attacks the integrity of the review itself or questions the process behind the review is badly missing the point.

0) Khuutra! <3

1) It is the responsibility of a publication to have some sort of normality when it is reviewing one single series. The reviewers have to act as a team and not like individual bloggers. If your website said something about a game, you don't really want to be going back and contradicting that in a later review. A fantastic way of overcoming this problem would be to make it clear that your staff disagree and as such have multiple reviews for every game, but that's not really feasible - it's hard enough getting ONE review copy let alone four.

2) You are certainly not writing for the 200 million people who have never played and will never play Uncharted. You are writing for the people who either like Uncharted or have the potential to like Uncharted, and to a very small extent the rest of the gaming audience. Somebody who hates racing games will never buy a racing game no matter how many 10/10s you throw at it. Moreover, the reason you can't compare, say, Gran Turismo and Uncharted reviews is that they exist on separate scales, and they exist on separate scales because they are aimed at different people. You're not writing a review to suit someone else's opinion; that's the whole point of choosing a reviewer who likes the basis of the game to write a review.

As an opinion alone, a review is worthless. It's the same as any number of user reviews you can find on the internet. It's the opinion of one single person who may or may not share your tastes and may or may not agree with you on whether a game is good. The only way to fix that problem is to keep the review largely impartial, set out the good and bad points of a game, and comment only in small amounts. Your opinion as a reviewer is as important as any opinion, but what sets a (good) reviewer apart from a rant on Amazon is the ability to step back and look analytically at the game.

I can't deny that the EuroGamer reviewer looked analytically at the game, but he looked too analytically. He's going to the opposite extreme. Rather than including anything resembling his own opinion on the matter or how the game actually played, he went on a highbrow rant about the excessive cinematisation of games. This is hardly the time to complain about that when a great deal of games that have come before have exactly the same "problem" and your publication - the publication that accepts responsibility for what you write - has never so much as mentioned it.

To summarise that long and meandering rant, you're on the list.


Reviewers and the publications for which they write are not single entities, and every review publication - including this one, to the best of my knowledge - has warnings to that effect. No two reviewers are obligated to sync up for reviews, and no publication is obligated to make sure that they do so. If that's the aim of a publication, that's a horse of a different color, but not aiming for that can hardly be considered a fault.

You do not write reviews for fans of the game you're reviewing. You write it for all gamers, but you primarily write it for yourself. If you cannot communicate what you see as problems with the game, you have no place as a reviewer in the publication for which you write.

More, quantifying pros and cons is problematic on its own. How does one qualify the railroading of Uncharted as inherently positive or negative? How does one say that it's inherently a good thing that the game's most bombastic scenarios will play out in basically the same way every time, and that the danger is largely illusory and scripted? How does one say that it's inherently negative that you know when a building is going to fall over with you in it? You can't. The aim to quantify design as good or bad is a fool's errand. All one can do is offer one's own take.

Here is what separates a good review on a website from a good review on, say, Amazon: nothing. Both will be erudite, well-written, and communicate what the writer sees as good or bad in the game. Over the course of the review, the value set of the reviewer will be revealed in what they see as good or bad. If that's not the case then they are not writing an honest review.

If a publication doesn't aim for some sort of collaboration on reviews, why have a publication at all? The whole point is that the site should speak with something resembling one single voice.

You don't write it for yourself, you write it as yourself. You don't need to actively shove your own views in, because they come out naturally. Those are the easiest things to describe. If there's a flaw which you don't think is important, however, you do still have to mention it. Similarly, if there's a part of the game which you didn't really like but which you can see that other people would clearly like, you should mention that it's possible to like it. The size of the latter category of comments can be minimised by choosing a reviewer who actually likes the genre and the game's style, like the majority of people who are considering buying it.

The railroading of Uncharted 3 isn't positive or negative by itself, and that's exactly my point. The reviewer clearly doesn't like it, but fails to account for the fact that other people do. This in particular is just absurd:

"Your freedom of choice risks ruining the shot. Indeed, throughout the game, if you jump into an area you are not supposed to visit, Drake will crumple on the floor dead, Naughty Dog switching role from movie director to vindictive god. That is not your predestined path: Game Over."

Your freedom of choice? Since when has Uncharted, or any remotely linear game, had anything resembling freedom of choice? You walk down a narrow corridor and shoot whoever they tell you to shoot, solve the puzzles they tell you to solve and scale the walls they tell you to scale. If any action adventure TPS has deviated from that formula, please tell me about it, because it could potentially be quite brilliant.

Absolutely, some people - RPG fans for instance - might hate being "railroaded" like that, and knowing this (because, sure, you should mention it) would know to stay far away from Uncharted 3. If indeed, the reviewer is one of those people, he really shouldn't be reviewing Uncharted 3, because the target audience, not being morons, know that they like linear games. Not only does he only give one side of this (other than briefly mentioning graphics) but he spends a whopping five paragraphs bashing an intentional, omnipresent and clearly well-liked design choice. His opinion is valid, because no player's opinion is invalid, but his review is invalid because it approaches the game from entirely the wrong perspective.

Nothing separates a good critic review from a good user review, except quite often length, but the majority of user reviews aren't good at all. The difference between a good critic review and your average user review is that the user will either rant about the game or shower it with love and give it somewhere between 0 and 2 or 9 and 10, and a critic review will look fairly at aspects of the game's presentation, execution and design and describe why each of these is a good or bad thing, or in the case where it is ambiguous, like here, why it could be good or bad, with a clear focus on the audience for whom you are reviewing.

And to commit the cardinal sin of looking at the score, deducting 20% because you have moral problems with linear games is a little harsh, especially when the game's predecessor is by your own description "flawless" or "masterful" if you prefer.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

I really don't care about the score. Plenty of brilliant games have been given an 8 by EuroGamer, MGS4 being one of them. Though I disagreed with that review in places, I accept that it was an excellent review. I can't say the same about this.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

Kantor said:

If a publication doesn't aim for some sort of collaboration on reviews, why have a publication at all? The whole point is that the site should speak with something resembling one single voice.

You don't write it for yourself, you write it as yourself. You don't need to actively shove your own views in, because they come out naturally. Those are the easiest things to describe. If there's a flaw which you don't think is important, however, you do still have to mention it. Similarly, if there's a part of the game which you didn't really like but which you can see that other people would clearly like, you should mention that it's possible to like it. The size of the latter category of comments can be minimised by choosing a reviewer who actually likes the genre and the game's style, like the majority of people who are considering buying it.

The railroading of Uncharted 3 isn't positive or negative by itself, and that's exactly my point. The reviewer clearly doesn't like it, but fails to account for the fact that other people do. This in particular is just absurd:

"Your freedom of choice risks ruining the shot. Indeed, throughout the game, if you jump into an area you are not supposed to visit, Drake will crumple on the floor dead, Naughty Dog switching role from movie director to vindictive god. That is not your predestined path: Game Over."

Your freedom of choice? Since when has Uncharted, or any remotely linear game, had anything resembling freedom of choice? You walk down a narrow corridor and shoot whoever they tell you to shoot, solve the puzzles they tell you to solve and scale the walls they tell you to scale. If any action adventure TPS has deviated from that formula, please tell me about it, because it could potentially be quite brilliant.

Absolutely, some people - RPG fans for instance - might hate being "railroaded" like that, and knowing this (because, sure, you should mention it) would know to stay far away from Uncharted 3. If indeed, the reviewer is one of those people, he really shouldn't be reviewing Uncharted 3, because the target audience, not being morons, know that they like linear games. Not only does he only give one side of this (other than briefly mentioning graphics) but he spends a whopping five paragraphs bashing an intentional, omnipresent and clearly well-liked design choice. His opinion is valid, because no player's opinion is invalid, but his review is invalid because it approaches the game from entirely the wrong perspective.

Nothing separates a good critic review from a good user review, except quite often length, but the majority of user reviews aren't good at all. The difference between a good critic review and your average user review is that the user will either rant about the game or shower it with love and give it somewhere between 0 and 2 or 9 and 10, and a critic review will look fairly at aspects of the game's presentation, execution and design and describe why each of these is a good or bad thing, or in the case where it is ambiguous, like here, why it could be good or bad, with a clear focus on the audience for whom you are reviewing.

And to commit the cardinal sin of looking at the score, deducting 20% because you have moral problems with linear games is a little harsh, especially when the game's predecessor is by your own description "flawless" or "masterful" if you prefer.

By "your freedom of choice" I belive he meant just that, the players freedom to chose what to do, you as the player could very well deviate from the path that the designers decided on. But if they do they are met with instant death, something that I think sounds rather annoying making levels that give you the illusion of openess but as soon as you try to take one step of the path you are just killed. A game can be linear while still keeping the illusion of player choice, the Portal series for example handles it brilliantly by trapping the player into a maze of puzzles that you must figure out one at a time yet you are given full control of your actions and any deaths are expected.

As for linear action games that offer player choice I think Batman: AC and Assassin's Creed are the best examples off the top of my head. Both offer a story driven liniar experiance but offer you a very wide path with plenty of side passages that reword exploration but also manage to keep a strong narative thread to pull you along (Batman more so than Assassin's IMO). Imagine for a seccond an Uncharted game that managed to blend the semi open nature of those games with the cinimatic scripted sequences they are so famous for, sure it probably wouldn't be possible with today's technology but imagine a next generation UC4 that actually let you do a bit of the tresure hunting with large areas to explore and treverse. That would be another round of 10/10s I think



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!

Wow.. I am a huge Uncharted fan but even I have to admit that the series is overrated! I really loved UC2, but not as much as people who claimed it as the game of the generation. And that's an opinion of course. But it was way too easy especially the final boss, and really none of my friends had a strong opinion about it.

I know I'll love UC3, but people have to accept that not everyone will! Maybe an 8 is harsh but it is what it is, move on and get a life! Jeez :P



Around the Network
kopstudent89 said:

Wow.. I am a huge Uncharted fan but even I have to admit that the series is overrated! I really loved UC2, but not as much as people who claimed it as the game of the generation. And that's an opinion of course. But it was way too easy especially the final boss, and really none of my friends had a strong opinion about it.

I know I'll love UC3, but people have to accept that not everyone will! Maybe an 8 is harsh but it is what it is, move on and get a life! Jeez :P

Go play it on Crushing. It's slightly less easy that way.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

padib said:

Kantor said:

...

The railroading of Uncharted 3 isn't positive or negative by itself, and that's exactly my point. The reviewer clearly doesn't like it, but fails to account for the fact that other people do. This in particular is just absurd:

"Your freedom of choice risks ruining the shot. Indeed, throughout the game, if you jump into an area you are not supposed to visit, Drake will crumple on the floor dead, Naughty Dog switching role from movie director to vindictive god. That is not your predestined path: Game Over."

Your freedom of choice? Since when has Uncharted, or any remotely linear game, had anything resembling freedom of choice? You walk down a narrow corridor and shoot whoever they tell you to shoot, solve the puzzles they tell you to solve and scale the walls they tell you to scale. If any action adventure TPS has deviated from that formula, please tell me about it, because it could potentially be quite brilliant.

It's not that he doesn't like it. It's more that he doesn't like the direction it took for the 3rd iteration. I wrote abt that here with quotes to support my idea: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4279343.

It is also my understanding that players of a series take two approaches esp. when it comes to the 3rd installment, approaches which I 've already mentioned: 1) Either they want it to break its own mold or 2) they want it to solidify its present nature. Clearly being in category 1, he let that pervade his review. It doesn't mean he doesn't like rail shooters, it just means he wanted to see something new be done with the series and to his displeasure it doesn't happen.

I think that dynamics is normal for the review of the 3rd installment in a trilogy tbh. With that, the "one voice" argument, whether valid or not in terms of the quality of a publication, falls short since we don't know what UC2 reviewer thinks about the breaking the mold idea (typical of 3rd installment critique).

To expect the sequel to a game which has been received brilliantly by critics and has sold well to completely revamp the basic formula of the series is unreasonable. Back when I still wrote editorials, I wrote this: http://gamrfeed.vgchartz.com/story/83289/how-to-make-a-good-sequel/

The majority of sequels end up with slightly more negative reviews than their predecessors, but some of the franchises which have innovated the least (such as Assassin's Creed from II to Brotherhood) have actually improved over time. It's actually far more of a problem if you completely overhaul a successful formula. Look at Dragon Age II, or Command and Conquer 4, or Dawn of War: Soulstorm. Revamps can be done well (Look at GTA3) but there's no real point in risking it when people love your formula so much. It's far more likely that everything will go horribly wrong. 

Can you imagine if the linearity and railroading were removed? It would be a mess. You would be falling all over the place and having to restart entire sections, completely destroying the flow. Story events would get horribly out of sync and continuity would go out of the window. It could be done successfully, but that would take far more than two years of development, and the longer your game spends in development hell, the higher people's expectations get.

I would have no problem if he were complaining about a lack of innovation (though in that case no Call of Duty should ever get above a 7) but he isn't. He's complaining about something which has been a feature of the series and the majority of the better games in the genre since the beginning. Arkham Asylum is one of the rare games which permits you some exploration, and handles it very well. Not every game can or should try to manage that.

We don't know what the Uncharted 2 reviewer thought about Uncharted 3, but more importantly, we don't know what the U3 reviewer thought about U2. If the U2 reviewer had made these same comments, they would hold more weight, because we know that he loved Uncharted 2, including the linearity aspect. We have no idea what the U3 reviewer thought of U2. He could well have despised it, so anybody who loved it would most probably find themselves disagreeing with him on U3 as well.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

Kantor said:
kopstudent89 said:

Wow.. I am a huge Uncharted fan but even I have to admit that the series is overrated! I really loved UC2, but not as much as people who claimed it as the game of the generation. And that's an opinion of course. But it was way too easy especially the final boss, and really none of my friends had a strong opinion about it.

I know I'll love UC3, but people have to accept that not everyone will! Maybe an 8 is harsh but it is what it is, move on and get a life! Jeez :P

Go play it on Crushing. It's slightly less easy that way.

Sadly i no longer have a PS3 :( And well I don't really feel like playing it over again :P



I dunno how people can rip on COD for being the same game every year but this Uncharted 3 which is basically Uncharted 2 in the desert gets heaps of praise.



Nsanity said:

Calm Down Tom

Following on from Simon Parkin?s mostly positive, well writtenreview of Uncharted 3 which was mildly critical and awarded the game an 8 out of 10, the internet exploded. Clearly as a platform exclusive it was always going to be messy, but its shocking to see just how partisan and tribal the commenters get when you offend ?their? console or game. It?s especially shocking as almost none of the commenters have played the game.

I myself commented as follows:

I find it amazing that in the comments people say that they only come to Eurogamer for the community and they now hate the journalism of the writers. Comments threads like this don?t represent the kind of community anyone should be proud of. Simon?s review was fair, well argued and above all else, an honest opinion. That?s the kind of thing that would make me want to come to a review site, even if I disagreed with the reviewers opinion.

This comment thread meanwhile is an embarrassment. Obviously it?s not all bad and many good points are made, but at the same time there are so many thoroughly ignorant comments made that show a complete lack of understanding of how the games industry, journalism and the world works.

Next time you are about to write something about a game score, just stop yourself. Chances are you are about to say something profoundly stupid.

Is that fair? Harsh? Well to give you an idea of how bad the thread is, here?s the 5 stupidest comments posted after the review:

5. Third year journalism student fails to understand that advertising exists, calls in to question the quality of his own education:
So EG, are you seriously telling me you haven?t sold out and BF3 gaining at least a 9/10 or higher from you has absolutely nothing to do with the absolute eye raping advertising EA paid you to do? Your site has lost all credibility in my eyes and the only reason I?m still reading it is the witty banter from the forum members. You?re a shadow of the site I used to frequent over 6 years ago.

 

I?m a third year journalism student and I?ve read a lot on how companies pay off certain publications for favourable coverage. So you?re not kidding me with your crap anymore. Anybody else that still expects EG to deliver news completely unbiassed should think again. They?re just another sell out.

4. Commentor contributes nothing to the discussion with irrelevant point on another (much worse) publications opinion:
IGN gave it 10. Quite a difference in scores. I personally can?t wait for it.

3. Apparently this gamer has already handed out game of the year awards for 2011, including those he hasn?t yet played
First they go and redesign the site to make it look like a big cluster**** of garbage, then they go and give Uncharted 3, the best game of 2011, 8/10
Keep digging that grave Eurogamer, you have officially lost the plot

2. Man claims game ?isn?t an 8?, despite the fact that an 8 is an arbitrary measure of appreciation based on opinion and not an actual entity.
There goes all the respect I had for this site. I?ve seen 22 scores and this is the only one lower than 9. I?m going to trust all the other reviews when they say it?s better than UC2, that being the case how you can you possibly justify this score? This site gave brink an 8 for fuck?s sake!
I?m actually sad because this used to be my favorite mainstream site but there is no excuse for this, this game isn?t an 8, it just isn?t.

1. Demands are made that reviewer stops reviewing games, instead reviews self
Simon Parkin you are an idiot, you have no idea what uncharted is about or what the game is trying to bring to gamers, instead you made up your own personal concept of what unchareted should be and brought them to the table and mark down the game because of this. Please stop reviewing games and go review yourself.

As well as the above moments of supreme stupidity there are a great many puzzling aspects of gamers opinions in evidence throughout the thread. There is a lot of concern over the score of Uncharted 3 being brought down on metacritic. Many of the commentors say this is unfair on the developer. Again, this is almost all gamers who have not yet played the game. Its amazing though how the relatively small and independent game review site is being recast as the bully while the massive marketing budget and push by the platform holder doesn?t seem to stop the gamers viewing their massive cross media franchise as being the little guy who needs defending. That?s some effective brain-washing/marketing magic right there!

Eurogamer is a good site, and the quality of writing is generally high. Its telling though that over at GiantBomb there is a whole article on the reaction to the Eurogamer review, and in the comments there you can tell that there?s barely contained mirth. Meanwhile, even David Jaffe has come out in support of the review. The truth is that comments threads like this on games review are embarrassing for the Eurogamer community and embarrassing for gamers as a whole. Instead of pouring bile on the reviewers for writing well structured but critical reviews, perhaps the community should look at itself. Perhaps, as one commentor said, they should ?review? themselves. At this moment, I think they would be lucky to get a 2 out of 10.

http://calmdowntom.com/2011/10/eurogamer-gives-uncharted-3-an-eight-comments-go-full-retard/

 



The biggest troll on any site by far. The fact that the trolling is in the topic title repeatedly takes it it to the next level.