I can't believe u guys want to tell me that GT5 is the better looking game.

Forza 4 looks better in every aspect. And the 2.0 update is a joke and an insult to the fans, who waited that long for this update.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bMDZKkBobm0

Reading some of the early comments it really makes you wonder if people are even looking at the same video. I actually watched the video and thought that the track must of been choosen as it demonstrated GT5 in its worst light. When compared with the FM4 video on the right the GT5 video looked like the graphics had been set to low. The FM4 just had a lot more authenticy and clearly effort.

The audio again seemed pretty meaty when on the FM4. If I was making a judgement only based on that video clip I would say FM4 was streets ahead of GT5. I am however not that naive and I still suspect this was created because it deliberately showed GT5 to bad effect, I am sure I have seem much better videos of GT5 than this comparison.

On a final note the FM4 driver was winning :)

That's just the thing though...as far as I've heard GT5 and F4 pretty much are the same when it comes to physics the only people that have said otherwise are people like ethomaz. I can't wait for the F4 vs GT5 comparison from Inside Sim Racing since they really do know what they are talking about.

quoted 4 truth

OOOPS! Tricks exposed! You'll make some people saaad Pandas.   ...Always better than sad Trabants!   

Booh! This is the counter arguement to your post. You showed that Forza 4 doesn't have dynamic lighting on all cars, and the level of detail changes when you play 1 player or 12 players.

Well Forza 4 never looks as pixelated as this. I heard one of the few graphical advatages 360 has over PS3 is anti alliasing, and it shows. I know shadows, especially in car for GT5, also look pixelated like hell (especially the A colum pillar).

Neither game is perfect, but in gneral Forza 4 looks better. Remember, only 20% of the cars in GT5 are even premium cars. Even if Forza 4 cars looked only on par with GT5 cars, there are 250% more cars to that level of quality.

Also don't forget

There is a huge difference in favor of Forza 4, I don't understand how you can't see that, especially in surface textures.

Images were taken by DigitalFoundry themselves incase anyone thinks they were tampered with.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-gran-turismo-5-tech-analysis

That and Forza 4 runs at a constant 60FPS, where GT5 dips at time to 40FPS.

This video is good because it's not labeled. The second video is a car on the Top Gear track. Does that video look/sound better then the first? Honestly look and see which one is better. I think the second video really sounds and looks dated compared to the first.

(Aka Forza 4 looks better :P)

But that's not the case, I've put in over 50 hours into GT5, and in only half an hour of playing under simulation steering and spec, I can say Forza 4 has supperior physics then GT5.

Also more features?  The Special events in GT5 are so short and limited, GT is not like what it used to be where Rally was heavily incorperated into the game. There is no Jeremy Clarkson, no Auto Vista, nowhere nearly as in depth of an online mode, and overall less races (GT5 only has 6x9=54 cups, Forza 3 has 20x10= 200, and Forza 4 has more). Also Forza has an experience system, a more advanced damage modeling system, more premium cars, more tracks, more specials (although silly, but it's Top Gears Idea).

Yes GT5 has day and night cycles, but Forza 4 has Morning, Day, and Sunset systems, which is fine. All Forza is missing as a track sim is Rain, and that's hardly enough to say GT5 has more features. I made this arguement before, but PGR also has Ice, Snow, and Thunderstorms, does that make it better then GT5? No!

GT5 has less features then Forza 4, it's not the same as GT4 was.

Machina Thank You! Why can't people see that?

MARCUSDJACKSON Always a pleasure to debate with you too.

Alby the Wolf Wait GTR2 is a 2006 game, not 2008... Oh wait there is also GTR Evolution, never played that. Yes I agree with you GTR has been able to keep up with the physics on console games. GTR2 is probably a bit better of a sim then GT4 and Forza 2, but I would say behind Forza 3. Evolution is probably better then  Forza 3, maybe GT5, I would expect that.

However as a game in general GTR has never been as big as Forza (current days Forza), and GT. There is only about 30 cars in GTR Evolution, and only 14 tracks. You also say that Console graphics are better nowdays.

So I still hold my claim that PC was on top last gen. Forza 4 and GT5 are much better then any PC SIM nowdays.

There are many benefits to playing racing games on SIM, people should give them more of a chance, but we also want some game aspect. PC Sims don;t have many cars or tracks, and yes they model behaviors (like that 1998 game you mentioned) before games in consoles, but the difference is only a couple years. GT2 and 3 also modeled suspension behavior, and GT2 had damage (GT5 wasn't the first GT to have Damage :-O!!!!!) although basic.

Like I said, many advantages for PC games. Games on Steam are much cheaper too, one of my friends is getting Arkham City for $40 because there is a discount on steam for people who own the original Arkham Asylum. NFS also drops like mad on PC, and can have graphics boosted so much.

yo_john we must wait paitently for that article. However from my experience (and I think I've played a lot more racing sims then anyone here), Forza 4 is a huge improvement over Forza 3, and I would say better then GT5. Especially with braking, my gosh has Forza 4 really improved braking under different considitons. Even the brake sound is awesome.