Do you think loans would be given out in "self-absored navel-gazing" if those getting such said degrees would be able to file bankruptcy and get out of them, when they couldn't a job?  Individual stupidity doesn't turn into a debt level exceeding that of credit cards, unless enabled.

That there is a higher education bubble (created, as always, by the feddle gubmit) would seem to be beyond the purposes of this conversation, however. Just because your government is stupid and your peers are stupid doesn't mean that you also have to be stupid. I mean, shit. Is this really the argument you want to make? Having so many options and opportunities in life that you choose to do the wrong things does not make you in any meaningful sense a victim, and if some cunt with a sociology degree finds out after the fact that his degree is basically worthless, I'll be fucked if I'm going to feel sorry for him. Instead of going to college just because "it's time to go" or because you want to extend your adolescence, go because you want to learn something useful. Otherwise, don't.

It is important to also understand that, it is folly to believe that mass cultural stupidity, in a bad set of values that preaches, "The only way to get ahead is a college education", isn't going to impact you in some way, if that is the norm.  To not believe this is so is to live some sort of objectivist reality that believes you can form a large enough gated wall and keep yourself safe.

In a relative free society, with elected officials by people, and the ability to organize and address grievances, it is imperative that one not just say "it is the government's fault", because the government IS the byproduct of the collective wishes of the masses, and an attempt to manage their desires.  And if they are collectively stupid, expect to suffer as a result, even if you weren't part of it.  I know, you long for a society where it is TOTALLY merit driven, where bad mistakes a punishes to such a degree it theoretically deters.   But, you don't live in such a world now, nor would the mass of people tolerate such a system without any form of a safety net.

As for enforcing this stupidity, the norm for people is to go get jobs somewhere, and be middle and upper class.  Well, guess what happens without the degree?  Well, the average person will be denied an ability to interview without the debt bomb degree, ANY debt bomb degree.  You have laziness embedded in the system by companies, and social conventions built on this.  All the government stupidity you rail against now is merely reenforcing this societial stupidity.  Well, the word is getting out slowly here.  And eventually the system will collapse.

1) Why won't they?  They do in most other countries like France.  Aside from which, unemployment for college grads is at like... 4%.

4)  Who got the 40 month term?  Is it light, well yeah sure.  It isn't armed robbery though... and I don't think people actually do care that much since they never push for the offending legislation to be repealed.

5)  How would there never be opponent bills?  If the politicians aren't picking the laws to vote on, who is?  If it's the people there will only be MORE opponent bills since the people are far more divided then politicians in what they believe in... this brings a large issue as people often just vote for things that are up to a vote if they don't have a strong feeling about it.

Which brings me to a new point

6)  In greece in the Austerity riots huge fights broke out.  Between the protesting Anarcists and the protesting Rioters.  It's nearly impossible to get a revolution in a democracy where everyone still has the right to vote, because revolutions, like the recent ones in Libya and Egypt for example are made up of disparent parties that feel disenfranchised, and democracy is the only way to satisfy those agendas.  It's REALLY hard to convince people to revolt against the US government when they could just as eaisily run a "Direct Democracy" candidate, or whatever the hell else they want, and try to vote them in peacefully.

If they don't have enough of a majority to elect them you can bet a revolution would be worthless since those who don't want a revolution will just rise up as well... and if the revolutionaries are mostly the super left wing like occupy wallstreet, they'll be in real trouble since it's mostly conservatives who own most of the guns.

7) Actually that one unjustified act ended up justified as well, the women got pepersprayed by accident when it sprayed out farther then he though due to the wind.   He was aiming for protestsers who weren't on the shot, but were on the ground trying to pull down the barriers/grab polices feet.  At that point it's either pepper spray or a boot to the mouth, and the pepper spray is the better option.

I agree with pretty much all of that, except I still think that that doesn't make such people victims. Or, it does, but they're victims in much the same way that spoiled children are victims of bad parenting: they're victims, but not particularly sympathetic ones, and their only chance of turning around their lives is to get a hard dose of reality.

And that's my big beef with OWS. I don't see this as a group of people who are belatedly upset by the feds enabling corporate irresponsibility; I see it as a bunch of people who, by and large, just want the feds to enable them to be just as irresponsible as the banks.

1 - Because the French govt didnt sell their futures up the river, would be my guess. There's a lot of reasons why people are losing their patience and aren't going to remain complacent. Its a dam with a lot of cracks. Its only a matter of time before it bursts open and all hell breaks loose.

4- the broker who stole the funds, and neither story was about armed robbery.

5 - Process of filtration. People suggest laws, the gov't reviews them and filters out the extreme ones, and puts the logical laws to vote. Yes, this is true, there is a lot of passive voting, but there's no way to fix that. Its still better than having a bought congress passing laws that aren't in the best interest of most of the citizens.

6 -  yes, the peaceful, simple way would to be to create a new party/platform. But we know that the voting system is broken beyond broken, I think the 2000 elections proved that one to us. Besides, the political system is acidic, anyone - even a person of the purest heart - will be consumed into the machine, instead of them fixing it. As for the right vs left wings and guns - if a leader were to emerge that found the middle ground of the tea party and the OWS people, that would be a massive force. It's like watching 2 storms slowly draw near to each other, the end result ends up into a superstorm.

7  - So, just to confirm, you're believing this information based on what? The shot shows the women head to toe, there's no one around them, and the barrier is right there. If people were on the ground, wouldnt the pepper spray have been aimed at, say, the girls' knees? The video has the cop's arm aimed right at eye level. I'm not so sure why you're defending the police so much, unless you're a cop yourself?

Exactly. People simply want to exchange one master for another. They rail against the top 1%, and want to exchange them for another 1% in the government to be their ruler... When in reality, neither should rule over you in the way that they affect and make decisions for your own self.

6 -  yes, the peaceful, simple way would to be to create a new party/platform. But we know that the voting system is broken beyond broken, I think the 2000 elections proved that one to us. Besides, the political system is acidic, anyone - even a person of the purest heart - will be consumed into the machine, instead of them fixing it. As for the right vs left wings and guns - if a leader were to emerge that found the middle ground of the tea party and the OWS people, that would be a massive force. It's like watching 2 storms slowly draw near to each other, the end result ends up into a superstorm.

1) Except they have... France's situation is a lot worse then the US in general.

4) Which broker and which funds?  Like I don't know what case you are talking about here... is this a hypothetical?

5) It's very possible to have two opposing laws that are logical, in fact most loopholes for coprorations and such are built on such logic.  IE:  Farmers should have a subsidy because it will help US Farmers.

6) I don't see where you get the voting system is broken beyond belief, if enough people believe in one candidate, IE a majority there isn't shit that can be doen to stop him.

As for a middleground between Occupy Wallstreet and the Tea Party... i'm not sure what the middleground is between "Polititians are corrupt and therefore need more power to stop corruption" and "Policians are corrupt and therefore need less power."

Well outside of "Politicians are corrupt and things should stay the same."  Which isn't exactly marching grounds for a revolution.

7)  Based on witness testimony and his testimony.  As for his aiming.... have you ever used a supersoaker before?

Gravity tends to effect liquid based things... generally requiring an arc the farther away you are from a target, ever think those people were further down off camera grabbing the police who are to the left of said video?