Im something of a half Christian half Deist. My views on God are mostly deistic but my faith and religious symbolics are christian

Andrespetmonkey said: Jay520 said: Andrespetmonkey said: Jay520 said: Andrespetmonkey said: osamanobama said: wow...this poll is retardedly offensive. so only atheists are free thinkers, so i didnt think on my own, when i decided Christianity was by far the most logical believe system their is. in my experience, almost all atheist i have come across are the least free thinking people there are, instead functioning as a hive mind. Firstly, YOU are the one trying to be offensive in that last sentence and secondly, I've never really met any atheists like that, since most atheists come to atheism as a conclusion. If you think that's offensive to a religious person, you don't know what the term "free thinker" means. Argument stops here please, like I said at the start of the thread, no arguing.  Definition: Freethought is a philosophical viewpoint that holds that opinions should be formed on the basis of science, logic, and reason, and should not be influenced by authority, tradition, or any dogma. For example: Someone may reject the belief of the Adam and Eve story based on science, logic, and reason, however if they were influence by authority, tradition or any form of dogma the only science, reason and logic they may accept will be what fits with said story, while rejecting any evidence agaisnst it.   No need to only associate the term with athiests/agnostics when thiests can be free thinkers as well. One can choose a religion based on science, logic, & reason. Such doings are not limited to athiests or agnostics. Im just saying... I guess I'm an agnostic. There is no proof for the existence of god, while there is also no proof for his inexistence, although due to the nature of God, one can't actually disprove it's existence anyway. Therefore, I have no beliefs or disbeliefs. I highlighted the part that shows how it's incredibly difficult to be religious and a free-thinker (in my post), you will be influenced by dogma.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you lack a belief in something, doesn't that automatically leave you disbelieving in it? It doesn't mean that you are sure it doesn't exist, it just means you lack a belief in it, which would be disbelieving.  Put it this way: I don't believe in any dieties; I also don't disbelieve. Both of the aforementioned are due to lack of evidence. Both can be possible, but due to my own ignorance, I have no reason to believe in either. This may be a bad analogy, but here goes nothing. Imagine someone presents their clenched hands before you, one with a coin & one without. This person then asks you "which hand do you believe the coin is in?". You would have no answer. You have no evidence to believe which hand holds the coin. You simply have no beliefs. Probably a bad analogy, but I tried my best. But with that analogy, you know there is a 50/50 chance of a coin being in whatever hand you believe to have the coin. Whereas with the idea of gods, I have no reason to have any belief in a god, so my default stance is disbelief - if I ever do get reason to believe, my stance will change, but until then it's disbelief. But I do understand what you mean, and I know it's hard to make a good analogy for it.

okay, better analogy.

Imagine someone presents one clenched hand & claims that there is a coin in it. You have no reason to believe there's a coin in his hand, but you know there's a possibility. There is no reason to believe he has a coin, but There is also no reason to have absolute faith in the inexistence of the coin. You simply don't know, but you do KNOW both scenarios are equally possible (not together, of course)

I think that mirrors my feelings about God quite well.

Jay520 said: Andrespetmonkey said: Jay520 said: Andrespetmonkey said: Jay520 said: Andrespetmonkey said: osamanobama said: wow...this poll is retardedly offensive. so only atheists are free thinkers, so i didnt think on my own, when i decided Christianity was by far the most logical believe system their is. in my experience, almost all atheist i have come across are the least free thinking people there are, instead functioning as a hive mind. Firstly, YOU are the one trying to be offensive in that last sentence and secondly, I've never really met any atheists like that, since most atheists come to atheism as a conclusion. If you think that's offensive to a religious person, you don't know what the term "free thinker" means. Argument stops here please, like I said at the start of the thread, no arguing.  Definition: Freethought is a philosophical viewpoint that holds that opinions should be formed on the basis of science, logic, and reason, and should not be influenced by authority, tradition, or any dogma. For example: Someone may reject the belief of the Adam and Eve story based on science, logic, and reason, however if they were influence by authority, tradition or any form of dogma the only science, reason and logic they may accept will be what fits with said story, while rejecting any evidence agaisnst it.   No need to only associate the term with athiests/agnostics when thiests can be free thinkers as well. One can choose a religion based on science, logic, & reason. Such doings are not limited to athiests or agnostics. Im just saying... I guess I'm an agnostic. There is no proof for the existence of god, while there is also no proof for his inexistence, although due to the nature of God, one can't actually disprove it's existence anyway. Therefore, I have no beliefs or disbeliefs. I highlighted the part that shows how it's incredibly difficult to be religious and a free-thinker (in my post), you will be influenced by dogma.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you lack a belief in something, doesn't that automatically leave you disbelieving in it? It doesn't mean that you are sure it doesn't exist, it just means you lack a belief in it, which would be disbelieving.  Put it this way: I don't believe in any dieties; I also don't disbelieve. Both of the aforementioned are due to lack of evidence. Both can be possible, but due to my own ignorance, I have no reason to believe in either. This may be a bad analogy, but here goes nothing. Imagine someone presents their clenched hands before you, one with a coin & one without. This person then asks you "which hand do you believe the coin is in?". You would have no answer. You have no evidence to believe which hand holds the coin. You simply have no beliefs. Probably a bad analogy, but I tried my best. But with that analogy, you know there is a 50/50 chance of a coin being in whatever hand you believe to have the coin. Whereas with the idea of gods, I have no reason to have any belief in a god, so my default stance is disbelief - if I ever do get reason to believe, my stance will change, but until then it's disbelief. But I do understand what you mean, and I know it's hard to make a good analogy for it. okay, better analogy. Imagine someone presents one clenched hand & claims that there is a coin in it. You have no reason to believe there's a coin in his hand, but you know there's a possibility. There is no reason to believe he has a coin, but There is also no reason to have absolute faith in the inexistence of the coin. You simply don't know, but you do KNOW both scenarios are equally possible (not together, of course) I think that mirrors my feelings about God quite well.

"but you do KNOW both scenarios are equally possible "
But when it comes to the idea of god, I don't think both scenarios are equally possible, since the idea of a god was created by mankind to explain the unknown, it seems very unlikely that this man-made idea, that had no evidence backing it up would turn out to be true.

Not another one of these..

Andrespetmonkey said: "but you do KNOW both scenarios are equally possible " But when it comes to the idea of god, I don't think both scenarios are equally possible, since the idea of a god was created by mankind to explain the unknown, it seems very unlikely that this man-made idea, that had no evidence backing it up would turn out to be true.

Of course I'm not referring to the traditional form of God. I mean any conscious being of a higher power. It could or couldn't exist from my perspective.

Double post

Strong atheist here with an active disbelief in the God of the Judeo-Christian variety since, by its own definition, it can not possibly exist. In terms of broader philosophical views I would describe my personal views as rational egoism (of the Randian variety), and my political views are best described as anarcho-capitalist.

 

As a side note, I don't like how the poll lumps together atheists and agnostics. Most atheists I have encountered (including myself) have strong beliefs regarding this subject which are, typically, supported by reason. Agnostics have just as much in common with Christians as they do atheists which is nothing. A Christian holds a viewpoint (an irrational one in my eyes but it is still a firm belief) and an atheist argues for just one side as well ... agnostics are not in a transition to theism or atheism they are not an inbetween answer either. I always saw agnosticism as a part of a nihilistic world view.

Smeags said: Kantor said: Smeags said: I'm a Christian. ^_^ Can't wait for someone else to make this same sort of thread next month! I really want to challenge you on that, but I can't be mean to Smeags OT: An atheist with respect for Buddhism and disdain for Abrahamic religions. I'm really not one for talking about world views and belief systems on message boards (not really sure why I posted on this one... I think it was AndresPetMonkey's avatar that hooked me), but if you have questions that you want to ask, go ahead. Don't be too mean though!

Just one simple question, then.

Do you accept evolution, as a clear scientific consensus with significant amounts of evidence in favour?

Andrespetmonkey said: Marks said: On the fence between Christianity and Atheism. I believe a God created the Earth, and perhaps created organisms...but I definitely think evolution has happened. I don't really believe in the bible. I was like this for while when I started disbelieving in christianity. The conclusion I came to was - we can trace all matter in this universe to one point in time, the big bang, we aren't sure what happened before the big bang, but does that mean god? I don't think not knowing is a reason to believe in any god, let alone one attached to any religion, so my default stand is disbelief. Do you believe in the christian god? If not, you're a deist :)

Your point makes sense man. Right now I'm definitely leaning more towards atheism/agnosticism than Christianity. And I wouldn't even say its "The Christian God" I believe in, just a general higher power/creator. Something like that :/ 

So yeah I guess I am a deist by definition, sounds like a weird title to have. 

What makes you so sure about the big bang and everything? I'm trying to figure out what the big bang really is so I can understand it and make a decision. 

Marks said: Andrespetmonkey said: Marks said: On the fence between Christianity and Atheism. I believe a God created the Earth, and perhaps created organisms...but I definitely think evolution has happened. I don't really believe in the bible. I was like this for while when I started disbelieving in christianity. The conclusion I came to was - we can trace all matter in this universe to one point in time, the big bang, we aren't sure what happened before the big bang, but does that mean god? I don't think not knowing is a reason to believe in any god, let alone one attached to any religion, so my default stand is disbelief. Do you believe in the christian god? If not, you're a deist :) Your point makes sense man. Right now I'm definitely leaning more towards atheism/agnosticism than Christianity. And I wouldn't even say its "The Christian God" I believe in, just a general higher power/creator. Something like that :/  So yeah I guess I am a deist by definition, sounds like a weird title to have.  What makes you so sure about the big bang and everything? I'm trying to figure out what the big bang really is so I can understand it and make a decision.

Well I'm pretty sure about it since a lot of what we know about the universe that are facts, wouldn't really make sense without the big bang. I'm no astrophysicist, so I'd just google stuff like "basic explanation of the big bang theory" and "evidence for the big bang"

Some videos on it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyCkADmNdNo&feature=BFa&list=PLD07D73CD6333903F 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcds5Ob59Dg