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Forums - Sales Discussion - Xbox 360 Vs. Playstation 3 2012 - *February* Update

fauzman on 13 October 2011

It will be interesting to see how the holiday period pans out. The boost the xbox got from Gears is wearing off and ps3 hardware sales will probably be back ahead of xbox figures from 8th October onwards.

I suspect Forza will have a reasonably modest pickup in hardware sales in spite of the excellent sales. I really dont see Halo CE selling too many consoles either as i think most of the people hyped for this are people who have played Halo 3 onwards and want to play the original. UC3 on the other hand should sell a large amount of consoles assuming it reviews as highly as UC2 (which it should).

With regards to the multiplat - xbox have an edge here and will gain console sales from their timed exclusivity deals with MW3 while the Battlefield/PS3 deal will have little effect. I still think the ps3 will take the lead in sales into next year - im not sure MW3 will give xbox enough of a lift over the ps3 especially with FF13-2 and other games in Japan that may offset some of the xbox gains.



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Michael-5 on 13 October 2011
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Michael-5 said:

Have to leave, so I'll make this short

EMEAA total has been pretty balanced most of this gens life, only since the Slim has PS3 gotten a stronghold in EMEAA. Japan is a small region, and Americas is the biggest region. My point was that in general, most of the world prefers 360. So any gap shrinking will be mostly due to Japan. if PS3 dies in Japan, like most 7th gen consoles already have, the gap will no longer shrink. Japan! die? i don't expect much from either market. EMEAA, and Americas. Sony still has RPG's coming out next yr that should still give it great sells in Japan so Japan droping when it continues to get suport isn't going to happen. i don't know wht continues to drive 360 sells in Americas but MS has hit a cord somewhere in Americas thats simply incomprehendable. i will never see why 360 sells so well in Americas even when theres nothing out.

2nd paragraph, I agree, but I think the yearly gap PS3 will have will be under 1 million. Maybe 500k-1 million. So If it happens, and Japan doesn't die early, I say 5-6 years. That is if both consoles can sell large valumes for that long. This is why I don't think PS3 will ever overtake 360. agreed but bringing up something from our last epic conversation is that PS3 if MS does discontinues 360 after 2015 then in the PS3's 10th and final yr in the 7th gen 2016 the PS3 will have won the war which is funny in 2 ways.

one becuase many won't acknowledge it, and sony fans won't say PS3 won the 7th gen. all they'll say is PS3 out sold the 360wii, and then PS3 will do wht PS2 is doing and thats sell in developing markets, and we'll have the same type of arguements we had this gen next gen about this gen.

yea i know real petty isn't it. "hey what happened in the 7th gen? PS3 got is ass handed to it and thats whts going to happen in the 8th gen." and then the same BS that makes many hate this site will flame a new war and i won't be here for that.

The bundles PS3 has in Japan will help PS3 in January and December. This will give PS3 a bit of a lead starting in 2012. For fall 2011, they should sell about the same, but I still think 360 can top PS3 in Novemember/December just because MW3 and Battlefield 3 will be huge on 360, and Final Fantasy won't be big until January. i can agre and disagree which means i'm neutral.



I think 7th gen console sales will drop earlier in Japan then the rest of the world. I think 2012 is the last year PS3 will have decent sales in Japan. After that PS3/360 sales will be even, regardless of market strategy. The generation will be ending, sales overall will be down. 360 will remain above PS3 until the 8th gen comes out IMO.

What PS3 exclusive RPG's have a confirmed 2012 release date in Japan? The Last Guardian is not an RPG.

360 outsells PS3 in Americas for multiple reasons. More appeal to casual gamers (Halo is bigger then Killsone, and FPS's are favored on 360), Kinect appeals to casual gamers, used games are cheaper due to the larger volume, and the exclusives are catered to Americans. I personally like Gears Halo and Forza over any PS3 exclusive. Uncharted and Killzone come 4th and fifth, but I think to most americans/canadian, we rather have Halo. It's also domestic, like PS3 is in Japan, and most good games a multiplatform now days. (Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls, etc).

Next gen anything can happen. After all Nintendo really rose from the grave this gen. The only thing I can say is MS has defined themselves and it will be another 3 way fight next gen.

PS4 could do really well, but so can Next-Box and Wii U. It;s anyones game.



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D-Joe on 13 October 2011

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Turkish on 13 October 2011

There is no way and reason for 360 to outsell PS3, PS3 will be doing what it already did in 2009 and 2010, namely outselling the 360 again. The gap will probably decrease to around 2 million by january 12.



MARCUSDJACKSON on 13 October 2011
fauzman said:
It will be interesting to see how the holiday period pans out. The boost the xbox got from Gears is wearing off and ps3 hardware sales will probably be back ahead of xbox figures from 8th October onwards.

I suspect Forza will have a reasonably modest pickup in hardware sales in spite of the excellent sales. I really dont see Halo CE selling too many consoles either as i think most of the people hyped for this are people who have played Halo 3 onwards and want to play the original. UC3 on the other hand should sell a large amount of consoles assuming it reviews as highly as UC2 (which it should).

With regards to the multiplat - xbox have an edge here and will gain console sales from their timed exclusivity deals with MW3 while the Battlefield/PS3 deal will have little effect. I still think the ps3 will take the lead in sales into next year - im not sure MW3 will give xbox enough of a lift over the ps3 especially with FF13-2 and other games in Japan that may offset some of the xbox gains.

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Jay520 on 13 October 2011
binary solo said:
TRios_Zen said:
binary solo said:
Michael-5 said:
 

But the 360 did beat the PS3. In Americas and EMEAA 360 outsold the PS3, it's Japan that's keeping the PS3 above the 360.
Console PS3
Total Others (Oct-Dec 2010)
3,539,911
Console X360
Total Others (Oct-Dec 2010)
2,479,653

You sure about that?

If you mean Americas + EMEAA well there's an easy counterpoint: PS3 beat 360 massively in Japan and EMEAA, it's only Americas which kept it from being an arse whipping. It's about worldwide sales. What happens in each region, or a combination of regions that doesn't cover the world, is secondary.

In reality there are only 2 countries which are keeping 360 in touch with PS3: USA and UK. Certainly there are other countries where 360 has higher LTD and weekly sales than PS3 (Aussie), but they are miniscule markets in the big picture. Only USA and UK have sales levels which have a substantial effect on global sales, and even UK is small potatoes next to USA. Japan can never solely be the difference betwen Xbox and Playstation. PS3 has modest leads in most countries and a big lead in one. 360 has modest leads in a few countries and big leads in 2. And PS3 sells in some countries 360 does not, though I don't know which. Put it all together and, in recent years, it adds up to PS3 selling more than 360.

Not sure this how reasonable of an approach this is though...

Let's be honest, the 360 does not compete with the PS3 in Japan, full stop.  Lifetime sales, yearly sales, this weeks sales, no matter how you cut it, the PS3 dominates the 360 in Japan.  The total lifetime sales of the 360 n Japan are negligible to the 360's total market and could be removed from thier sales numbers with little impact.  Additionally, the PS3 is available in areas that the 360 is not.  These two factors skew the worldwide numbers...in fact, even you say "PS3 beat 360 massively in Japan and EMEAA, it's only Americas which kept it from being an arse whipping." but that isn't really true, is it?  Take out the 900K lead that Japan has provided the PS3 this year and the sales in area where the 360 is not avaialable and has the EMEAA REALLY been anywhere near an "arse" whipping difference in sales?

Now, I am not saying that Worldwide numbers are not important.  Worldwide install base is an important number and I'm SURE Microsoft would prefer to be much more competitive in Japan.  But picture a scenario where the 360 dominates the American market, ties or wins EMEAA the rest of this year, and only doesn't overtake PS3 sales because of the big difference in sales in Japan.  Do you think Microsoft would look at that as a "worldwide loss"?  Does that ever growing gap in sales in Japan have any effect on the western market and thier install base for the rest of this generation?

All that being said, I would guess that the only way the 360 overtakes the PS3 sales WORLDWIDE this year, is to drop the price.  That might allow the sales in the US and EMEAA to elevate over the holiday season to not only mitigate the losses in Japan, but normalize the sales this year to a higher total level than the PS3. 

In a thread that's talking about WW total sales for the year it's the only thing that is relevant. Regional sales are merely spin. Now if the thread is about relative importance of specific markets for a company's profitability, their ongoing presence in the console business, and their desire (if they have it) to dominate the console business then regional success becomes a much more significant consideration. Dominating in the USA plays a huge role in profitability and survivability. Probably the most important role. But we can also see that USA isn't the be all and end all. PSP has been a successful handheld, to the extent that Sony is releasing a second handheld. But Japan is a far more important market for PSP than USA. But as I say, for the purposes of this thread bragging that X region + Y region for Console A > for Console B is irrelevant in a WW sales showdown unless you can conclusively show that region Z is going to greatly diminish in sales for Console B, or greatly increase in sales for Console A.



My thoughts exactly. Michael has some.... unusual logic from the debates I've seen him in.

TRios_Zen on 13 October 2011
binary solo said:
TRios_Zen said:

Not sure this how reasonable of an approach this is though...

Let's be honest, the 360 does not compete with the PS3 in Japan, full stop.  Lifetime sales, yearly sales, this weeks sales, no matter how you cut it, the PS3 dominates the 360 in Japan.  The total lifetime sales of the 360 n Japan are negligible to the 360's total market and could be removed from thier sales numbers with little impact.  Additionally, the PS3 is available in areas that the 360 is not.  These two factors skew the worldwide numbers...in fact, even you say "PS3 beat 360 massively in Japan and EMEAA, it's only Americas which kept it from being an arse whipping." but that isn't really true, is it?  Take out the 900K lead that Japan has provided the PS3 this year and the sales in area where the 360 is not avaialable and has the EMEAA REALLY been anywhere near an "arse" whipping difference in sales?

Now, I am not saying that Worldwide numbers are not important.  Worldwide install base is an important number and I'm SURE Microsoft would prefer to be much more competitive in Japan.  But picture a scenario where the 360 dominates the American market, ties or wins EMEAA the rest of this year, and only doesn't overtake PS3 sales because of the big difference in sales in Japan.  Do you think Microsoft would look at that as a "worldwide loss"?  Does that ever growing gap in sales in Japan have any effect on the western market and thier install base for the rest of this generation?

All that being said, I would guess that the only way the 360 overtakes the PS3 sales WORLDWIDE this year, is to drop the price.  That might allow the sales in the US and EMEAA to elevate over the holiday season to not only mitigate the losses in Japan, but normalize the sales this year to a higher total level than the PS3. 

In a thread that's talking about WW total sales for the year it's the only thing that is relevant. Regional sales are merely spin. Now if the thread is about relative importance of specific markets for a company's profitability, their ongoing presence in the console business, and their desire (if they have it) to dominate the console business then regional success becomes a much more significant consideration. Dominating in the USA plays a huge role in profitability and survivability. Probably the most important role. But we can also see that USA isn't the be all and end all. PSP has been a successful handheld, to the extent that Sony is releasing a second handheld. But Japan is a far more important market for PSP than USA. But as I say, for the purposes of this thread bragging that X region + Y region for Console A > for Console B is irrelevant in a WW sales showdown unless you can conclusively show that region Z is going to greatly diminish in sales for Console B, or greatly increase in sales for Console A.

Sorry, I'm not sure we are discussing the same thing here; I'm not spinning regional sales, nor did I make any indication that I was discussing profitability, ongoing presence in the market, etc.  I'm also not trying to brag about anything the 360 sales are doing.

I am only stating that Japanese console sales are an outlier for the 360 which skew the worldwide numbers.  Without acknowledging this you (or anyone) could say things like  "without the US sales, worldwide sales would greatly favor the PS3" or "even with a 500 million marketing campaign the 360 still lost worldwide" (both paraphrased) as if that REALLY meant the 360 was losing sales WORLDWIDE.  I have tried to refute these statements as not factually correct, given the above mentioned disparity.  In fact, IMO, the only things you could factually say about PS3 vs 360 sales is that the 360 is winning the American market, the PS3 is winning the Japanese market and the EMEAA market is where the battle is at.

I have also acknowledged that for the simple sum of worldwide sales you WOULD have to include all numbers - and I gave my assessment as to how I thought the 360 could overcome the huge discrepancy in sales in Japan.



MARCUSDJACKSON on 13 October 2011
Michael-5 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Michael-5 said:
 

Have to leave, so I'll make this short

EMEAA total has been pretty balanced most of this gens life, only since the Slim has PS3 gotten a stronghold in EMEAA. Japan is a small region, and Americas is the biggest region. My point was that in general, most of the world prefers 360. So any gap shrinking will be mostly due to Japan. if PS3 dies in Japan, like most 7th gen consoles already have, the gap will no longer shrink. Japan! die? i don't expect much from either market. EMEAA, and Americas. Sony still has RPG's coming out next yr that should still give it great sells in Japan so Japan droping when it continues to get suport isn't going to happen. i don't know wht continues to drive 360 sells in Americas but MS has hit a cord somewhere in Americas thats simply incomprehendable. i will never see why 360 sells so well in Americas even when theres nothing out.

2nd paragraph, I agree, but I think the yearly gap PS3 will have will be under 1 million. Maybe 500k-1 million. So If it happens, and Japan doesn't die early, I say 5-6 years. That is if both consoles can sell large valumes for that long. This is why I don't think PS3 will ever overtake 360. agreed but bringing up something from our last epic conversation is that PS3 if MS does discontinues 360 after 2015 then in the PS3's 10th and final yr in the 7th gen 2016 the PS3 will have won the war which is funny in 2 ways.

one becuase many won't acknowledge it, and sony fans won't say PS3 won the 7th gen. all they'll say is PS3 out sold the 360wii, and then PS3 will do wht PS2 is doing and thats sell in developing markets, and we'll have the same type of arguements we had this gen next gen about this gen.

yea i know real petty isn't it. "hey what happened in the 7th gen? PS3 got is ass handed to it and thats whts going to happen in the 8th gen." and then the same BS that makes many hate this site will flame a new war and i won't be here for that.

The bundles PS3 has in Japan will help PS3 in January and December. This will give PS3 a bit of a lead starting in 2012. For fall 2011, they should sell about the same, but I still think 360 can top PS3 in Novemember/December just because MW3 and Battlefield 3 will be huge on 360, and Final Fantasy won't be big until January. i can agre and disagree which means i'm neutral.



I think 7th gen console sales will drop earlier in Japan then the rest of the world. I think 2012 is the last year PS3 will have decent sales in Japan. After that PS3/360 sales will be even, regardless of market strategy. The generation will be ending, sales overall will be down. 360 will remain above PS3 until the 8th gen comes out IMO. well i still belive 360 will fall in the EMEAA's. PS3 will be stable in the Amaricas, and the RPG's will carry PS3 through Japan. you'd better watch out for a possible monster hunter on PS3.

What PS3 exclusive RPG's have a confirmed 2012 release date in Japan? The Last Guardian is not an RPG. don't need confirmation when you know its going to happen! better yet wht do we kow about next yr in any region? yea few things maybe but the unknown is the only factor that matters.

360 outsells PS3 in Americas for multiple reasons. More appeal to casual gamers (Halo is bigger then Killsone, and FPS's are favored on 360), Kinect appeals to casual gamers, used games are cheaper due to the larger volume, and the exclusives are catered to Americans. I personally like Gears Halo and Forza over any PS3 exclusive. Uncharted and Killzone come 4th and fifth, but I think to most americans/canadian, we rather have Halo. It's also domestic, like PS3 is in Japan, and most good games a multiplatform now days. (Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls, etc). i have no idea wht the arguement is here? this is pure fact.

Next gen anything can happen. After all Nintendo really rose from the grave this gen. The only thing I can say is MS has defined themselves and it will be another 3 way fight next gen. yep

PS4 could do really well, but so can Next-Box and Wii U. It;s anyones game. yep. if the appealing games are there and taste change drasticaly and the innovation is there in games then we will see alot of battles in a gen where the advantages are far and few in between.

with MS new studio purchase there first party IP should get a boost. and maybe next gen we'll see more of there ip that we haven't seen.

graphics will be off the chartz and unless many deals are done behind closed doors then multiplatform titles won't have any impact on how one console sells cause thats wht happened in the Americas with the 360.

graphics are one thing but its the innovation in games that i want to see. without that then all 8th gen consoles will be to me are CPU's without a monitor. 

now i've said alot of things this gen about when 8th gen consoles should be released. 2020, 2016, and 2014, but the reality is now 2013. theres just no way around it for Sony mainly.

MS releasing a yr ahead of Sony again is an action that Sony can't afford. i think googles operating system will be key to Sonys system next gen. well i may be stating the obvious, but hey it still needed to be said.

PSN will be unrecognisable next gen and will rival that of XBL cause this is one area thats highly contested. Vitas online features look way better then XBL and PSN, and the google operating system just screams i'm better then the rest.

let the os wars begin!





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sepoer on 13 October 2011

I think I had enough with my Wii (upcoming hits Zelda SS and DQX) and PS3 (upcoming hits FF13 Versus and U3) and the handled section ton of hits for 3DS and Vita. Any news for 360 upcoming hits?



Michael-5 on 13 October 2011
MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Michael-5 said:

I think 7th gen console sales will drop earlier in Japan then the rest of the world. I think 2012 is the last year PS3 will have decent sales in Japan. After that PS3/360 sales will be even, regardless of market strategy. The generation will be ending, sales overall will be down. 360 will remain above PS3 until the 8th gen comes out IMO. well i still belive 360 will fall in the EMEAA's. PS3 will be stable in the Amaricas, and the RPG's will carry PS3 through Japan. you'd better watch out for a possible monster hunter on PS3.

What PS3 exclusive RPG's have a confirmed 2012 release date in Japan? The Last Guardian is not an RPG. don't need confirmation when you know its going to happen! better yet wht do we kow about next yr in any region? yea few things maybe but the unknown is the only factor that matters.

360 outsells PS3 in Americas for multiple reasons. More appeal to casual gamers (Halo is bigger then Killsone, and FPS's are favored on 360), Kinect appeals to casual gamers, used games are cheaper due to the larger volume, and the exclusives are catered to Americans. I personally like Gears Halo and Forza over any PS3 exclusive. Uncharted and Killzone come 4th and fifth, but I think to most americans/canadian, we rather have Halo. It's also domestic, like PS3 is in Japan, and most good games a multiplatform now days. (Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls, etc). i have no idea wht the arguement is here? this is pure fact.

Next gen anything can happen. After all Nintendo really rose from the grave this gen. The only thing I can say is MS has defined themselves and it will be another 3 way fight next gen. yep

PS4 could do really well, but so can Next-Box and Wii U. It;s anyones game. yep. if the appealing games are there and taste change drasticaly and the innovation is there in games then we will see alot of battles in a gen where the advantages are far and few in between.

with MS new studio purchase there first party IP should get a boost. and maybe next gen we'll see more of there ip that we haven't seen.

graphics will be off the chartz and unless many deals are done behind closed doors then multiplatform titles won't have any impact on how one console sells cause thats wht happened in the Americas with the 360.

graphics are one thing but its the innovation in games that i want to see. without that then all 8th gen consoles will be to me are CPU's without a monitor. 

now i've said alot of things this gen about when 8th gen consoles should be released. 2020, 2016, and 2014, but the reality is now 2013. theres just no way around it for Sony mainly.

MS releasing a yr ahead of Sony again is an action that Sony can't afford. i think googles operating system will be key to Sonys system next gen. well i may be stating the obvious, but hey it still needed to be said.

PSN will be unrecognisable next gen and will rival that of XBL cause this is one area thats highly contested. Vitas online features look way better then XBL and PSN, and the google operating system just screams i'm better then the rest.

let the os wars begin!



360 will fall in AMEAA as fast as PS3 falls in Americas. I'm just saying Japan is the difference between PS3/360 sales, and like the Wii, DS, and soon PSP, I think PS3 sales will start to crash real soon, before the PS4 comes out.

You keep saying the RPG's will keep PS3 a float after 2012, but what RPG's? There might be something small here and there, but I don't think we will see another mainstream Final Fantasy or Tales of title on the PS3 anymore. Versus is the last game that could boost PS3's sales, and I'm not sure what's going on with that game. Either way the RPG support will be a lot weaker in 2012 and onward. A lot weaker.

This next bit is unrelated, and heavily based on opinion, so anyone other then Marcus, just skip to the next comment. I think Next gen, PS4 will be the superrior product. I think MS will go along and make the X-Box a trendy product. They are doing it with Kinect now, and advertizing silly things like facebook. I know Windows 8 will mimic what a Mac OS can do, in both looks and functionality, and the super thin Samsung laptops mimic physics appearance, and I think overall MS is trying to appear more trendy.

PS4 will be the most funtional system for gamers. PSN will offer what gamers want (Free online, and extras with PSN Plus). Trophies will be cross platform (PS3, PS4, PSV), and as a traditional gaming device, PS4 will be the best.

However I think Nintendo next gen will really make the best 1st party games. It's just a feeling, I think this gen they were focused on just doing what they can to keep sales strong. I think Nintendo themselves were surprised at how well the Wii did, and they just didn't know what type of software they could make. That's why every popular game has or will be bundled, and most of the great games aren't too different from prior games. However for Wii U, they realize they need more software, so I think Nintendo will really work on making a proper Zelda, an excellent Pikmin, a few new IP's and work on getting some sick third party exclusives (like RE4 for GCN),

Back to MS, they will be popular in the US. The nextbox probably won't do anything any better then PS4, but just like iPods and iPhones are supper marked up products, I feel the next box will be an over-priced trendy piece of crap. Like this gen, they will have some great IP's for the hardcore, but I think the focus will be shifted to the casual.

All speculation, but I'm excited about the PS4, and it trophies are cross platform, I might just stick with Sony's and get MS/Ninty consoles when they are cheap for the exclusives.



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