vlad321 said: Finally, I don't buy your Mass Effect linearity argument one bit. The rest are spot on.

how so? , the gameplay itself is very linear like other bioware games, its kinda like final fantasy xiii but with interactive conversations and towns.

PullusPardus said: Jay520 said: vlad321 said: Jay520 said: Hitman is the greatest stealth series of all time! Have you seen Hitman: Absolution though? I've been reading the Hitman forums and they seem to afraid of the game becoming an linear action title instead a open stealth title. After reading preview & videos, they seem to be correct. That would suck if true. That is false, because Thief II is a much better stealth game than Hitman ever was. Hitman is still pretty damn awesome though. What the hell is thief? I assume it's just another shovelware PC game... as usual Oh god , what have you done! , that is one of the best games of all time.

Well, if Vlad likes it, then it's probably the most hardcore games ever created. Probably only playable by five people on the face of the Earth.

PullusPardus said: vlad321 said: Finally, I don't buy your Mass Effect linearity argument one bit. The rest are spot on. how so? , the gameplay itself is very linear like other bioware games, its kinda like final fantasy xiii but with interactive conversations and towns.

FFXIII battles are not linear. Enemy spawning is always the same but every battle (core gameplay) is always different. You always have to anticipate in battles, if the enemy's are somewhat tough otherwise it's just stunning and killing. Technically it's not linear, only if the difficulty is easy it becomes linear. Just looking at the mapdesign it's obviously linear.  

Jay520 said: PullusPardus said: Jay520 said: vlad321 said: Jay520 said: Hitman is the greatest stealth series of all time! Have you seen Hitman: Absolution though? I've been reading the Hitman forums and they seem to afraid of the game becoming an linear action title instead a open stealth title. After reading preview & videos, they seem to be correct. That would suck if true. That is false, because Thief II is a much better stealth game than Hitman ever was. Hitman is still pretty damn awesome though. What the hell is thief? I assume it's just another shovelware PC game... as usual Oh god , what have you done! , that is one of the best games of all time. Well, if Vlad likes it, then it's probably the most hardcore games ever created. Probably only playable by five people on the face of the Earth.

its a stealth game where you play as a theif, its set in medievil times, and it has all the features of hitman , but instead of killing people, you have to steal them , and instead of being third person , its first person (well they did have third person on the third game), its made by Eidos as well, same people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni78jO8SNtw

if you have a computer decent enough to run it, then i highly recommend it, given that you are a Hitman fan.

TruckOSaurus said: kitler53 said: mario is linear - i was under the impression that one was a classic. in fact, i would argue that non-linearity largely makes a game less popular. the majority of the gaming audience needs guidance on how to play or they will get lost, confused and then bored, frustrated. Mario Bros. 3 is not linear. You can choose which stage you play and using power ups you can change how you play each stage

Still linear. You have to get from point A to point B and the only thing that would change would be finding the whistles. You still go from the left side of the screen to the right side of the screen whether it's from the top or the bottom. You always have to start from stage 1 and find the whistles in the same places. iirc there are 2 whistles in world 1, and 1 in world 2. There are the arbitrary 8 worlds and you cannot deviate from them no matter what. If you want to shortcut you ALWAYS HAVE to get at least 1 whistle in world 1, but then if you use it right away the game becomes even more linear for you. This hasn't stopped SMB3 from being my fav in the entire series though hands down.

demonfox13 said: TruckOSaurus said: kitler53 said: mario is linear - i was under the impression that one was a classic. in fact, i would argue that non-linearity largely makes a game less popular. the majority of the gaming audience needs guidance on how to play or they will get lost, confused and then bored, frustrated. Mario Bros. 3 is not linear. You can choose which stage you play and using power ups you can change how you play each stage Still linear. You have to get from point A to point B and the only thing that would change would be finding the whistles. You still go from the left side of the screen to the right side of the screen whether it's from the top or the bottom. You always have to start from stage 1 and find the whistles in the same places. iirc there are 2 whistles in world 1, and 1 in world 2. There are the arbitrary 8 worlds and you cannot deviate from them no matter what. If you want to shortcut you ALWAYS HAVE to get at least 1 whistle in world 1, but then if you use it right away the game becomes even more linear for you. This hasn't stopped SMB3 from being my fav in the entire series though hands down.

Side scrollers are always linear is that really true?  Only SMB2 would be less linear in that case. I think he's right, it's about how you can play and not some navigational part of a game that defines linearity.

PullusPardus said: vlad321 said: Finally, I don't buy your Mass Effect linearity argument one bit. The rest are spot on. how so? , the gameplay itself is very linear like other bioware games, its kinda like final fantasy xiii but with interactive conversations and towns.

Then you qualified just about qualified most RPGs as linear if those are your reasons why. Would you consider DA:O linear as well then?

But at least by yoru definition Mario wouldn't be linear since there's a whole variety of ways to get to the end.

vlad321 said: PullusPardus said: vlad321 said: Finally, I don't buy your Mass Effect linearity argument one bit. The rest are spot on. how so? , the gameplay itself is very linear like other bioware games, its kinda like final fantasy xiii but with interactive conversations and towns. Then you qualified just about qualified most RPGs as linear if those are your reasons why. Would you consider DA:O linear as well then? But at least by yoru definition Mario wouldn't be linear since there's a whole variety of ways to get to the end.

I rarely ever agree with you on anything, but I have to agree with you here. I am starting to see a bias and some hidden agenda within the thread. Next they're gonna say is that Crackdown, Infamous, and Prototype are linear too lol. In that case I'll take my linear Gears, GoW, ME, InFamous, and Crackdown over another s....crappy Wii Sports, or SMB 100 any day.

technically everyway game there's infinite endings. Because there are infinite places to die. Or close

Besides interactive movies. Then it is more finite.

Depends on the genre to me. Action games are my favorite genre, but it is also probably the most linear genre as well. Exploration is quite limited, and the games pretty much push you down one path. However, getting from point A to point B isn't really where the value lies in actions games. The value lies in the gameplay mechanics, combat depth, and overall fluidity. Point being, while the game is linear in structure, the gameplay allows you to approach battles in different ways, utilizing different strategies, different weapons, etc, and that is what gives action games replayability.

I feel that stretching the term linear to encompass gameplay mechanics is reaching too far (don't know if this is what the OP means when he talks about doing the exact same thing on multiple playthroughs). The real problem I see with this argument is that almost all games would then become non-linear because you can almost always use different strategies when playing a game, whether it be an action, shooter, rpg, etc.

I guess my main point is just that linearity is more acceptable in some genres. For example, I prefer my action games to be linear while I am less forgiving when it comes to RPGs that are linear.