http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/testimonials/matthies.html

Here's a link that both believers and nonbelievers should check out. It really makes you think

I've got an idea. In the next version of the website, add a religious section to the forums and Don't allow them to show up in the hot topics on the front page. I come here for game info, not ancient fairy tale rants.

That is a difficult question to answer and one that I can't answer completely, but I'll try to explain it a bit. Most theologians are not going to say that God determines what is good or bad. Plato's Euthyphro addresses this problem extensively. The question essentially comes down to why God would say an action is good. There are two options: 1.) God commands the action to be good. 2.) God determines that the action is good based on an objective moral law. Most theologians have rejected the first option because it would seem that God is being arbitary in his decision. He would essentially be saying, "action A is good because I say so" (hardly the type of response you would expect from a supremely rational being).

To answer your questions, God does not define what is good or bad. Neither do humans. The objective moral law is unchanging and eternal, so there is no redefining it. This obviously raises the questions of how people have access to the objective moral law. The answer, at least to me, seems to be that humans don't have access to the law because of the subjective nature of our experience. The only entity that has access to the law would be God, but there is the problem of communicating this objective moral law into terms that humans can understand (this is the reason why metaphors and symbolism play such a huge role in religions).

From a theological viewpoint, I think the communication gap between an infinite being and a finite being makes it unlikely that humans will gain access to the objective moral law. The best we can do is work towards improving our ethical system as we gain more knowledge and experience (I also think this goes a long way in explaining why moral norms have changed throughout time and why we would not call our moral system objective).

Note: Just to clarify, the first section is mostly me explaining Plato's Euthyphro. The second sections contains more of my conjecture, so it might not represent the views of most religions.

Edit: I tried to answer your question as I think someone from a religious background would answer it. However, there are so many ethical systems out there that are both valid and consistent that the answer to your question really depends on what ethical foundation you choose to start from.

on what basis? probably on a brothel after my visit.

Well I can't speak for all faiths as they all believe differently. But you mention western religions and I assume you are referring largely to Christianity being the biggest one in western culture.

A huge misconception occurred in your post. In Christianity getting to heaven is not something reached through good deeds at all. It is something reached by accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. If you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior then chances are you will follow his teachings which included good deeds.

However the Bible clearly states several times that you can't buy your way into heaven with good deeds. Nothing buys you into heaven accept receiving the salvation offered to us through Jesus's death and resurrection.

As for why hell was created. Lucifer turned on God he thought he could be better then God, many Angel's followed him and a spiritual war was started. God cast Lucifer into hell to punish him for what he had done and such. This meant hell was present for all those who disobeyed God. However once humans walked the earth they were innocent and pure free of all sin. Their was no right or wrong , no death Adam and Eve would have lived for ever.

But their was one thing Adam and Eve could not do, eat from the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil. The devil tempted Adam and Eve and convinced them to turn on God by eating the fruit. Once having eaten the fruit Adam and Eve's eyes were opened to what was right and wrong and they were then held accountable.

In the Old Testament, God gave humans a way to be forgiven of their sins. If you sinned you needed to apologize to God through a burnt offering. This was a way of showing your allegiance and of asking for forgiveness. All those who rebelled against God would share the devils fate a place created for him and the Angel's that had turned on him.

Then in the New Testament God remedied the situation by sending his son Jesus Christ. Jesus would be the ultimate sacrificial lamb the son of God to forever pay our debts. Jesus came to earth and taught humans how we should treat each other and set out how we should live our lives. Then he died on the cross for our sins as the ultimate sacrifice to free us from our bondage.

After Jesus resurected, all those who believe in him and accept his salvation go to heaven.

So where does the misconception of good deeds come from? Simple it clearly states in the Bible that if you believe in Christ you should follow his teachings. If someone genuinely believes someone else is God they aren't just going to disobey everything that he says. As such Christian's do good deeds and other things because they genuinely believe that this is how Jesus and God wanted us to live, also a lot of good deeds are done from a human level. When you see someone in need of help you help them.

So in essence hell wasn't created for man, it was created for the devil and his followers. Good deeds alone do not get anyone into heaven in Christianity, they are simply a fruit and result of following Christ.

In other words a serial killer who realizes Jesus died for him and turns to Christ repenting and genuinely following him. Is going to heaven just as much as the guy who lives his whole life giving every dime he has to charity and spending every day in church.

Also in case anyone interprets this as me preaching that is not the case. I am simply answering the question to the best of my knowledge based on the Christian faith which is the biggest one in the western world!

I've gotta admit its getting alittle annoying. I am Christian but I do not create Christian topics because this is a gaming forum. If you want to discuss faith their are many outlets to do so, have a question about hell and wonder what Christian's think. Go to a church and ask a pastor have a question about Islam ask an Imam. Their is a time and place for everything and a game forum is probably not the best place to discuss faith.

Umm personally I don't think a politics section, General discussion section etc..etc... has much place in a game website. I think a major reason we have these sections is because they create contriversy and drive more readers into read them.

I have noticed their is a lack of political theology websites with good forums. It might be a good idea to branch off and create a completely seperate forum for such conversations. But as you said most of the gamers come to this forum to read and chat about gaming.

The ancient fairy tale rants comment is going alittle far. Your statement was respectable accept for that last part.

People will note I do appear in most theological threads, simply because more often then not Christians and other religious groups end up getting targetted and I see the need to stand up for them. However if the threads were never created to begin with and ignorant statements weren't made assualting people's beliefs. Then their would be no need for me to get involved at all and I would be fine with that.

Don't you think that's conflicting and opens to whatever how you want to cherry pick it to fit your own view on?

It really makes you think.

Whats conflicting about it? If you believe in God your going to follow his teachings. Also people do cherry pick what they want thats just the way it is. Some people even conclude that good works will get them to heaven because Jesus taught we should be good people. If you believe and follow Christ you are saved.

On this belief : ''Everything we do has a consequence.''