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DeadNotSleeping said:

 

@Vlad: I know very well that Buffy is not Twilight.  I was a huge fan of that series well before Twilight had been conceived, but I've heard enough about Twilight to know that there are a number of parallels and Whedonites are understandably pissed about that.  I have a couple cousins who were Twilight fangirls until I introduced them to Buffy; they went out and bought all seven seasons, then the Season 8 comics, a Buffy calandar and I'm not sure what else.  They were more willing to spend money on Buffy because they believed it to be better quality. Whovians, I imagine, would perhaps be inclined to purchase replicas of the Sonic Screwdriver, or a TARDIS cookie jar.  I'm not sure how many followers of Jersey Shore are willing to invest in Snooki action figures, so there's that angle as well.  And though I have not looked into it, I don't think that boxsets of Survivor do especially well against, say, Dexter.  A larger audience doesn't mean a more appreciative one.

Because Twilight was successful it indicated a need for more of the Vampire/Human romance, and so then True Blood rose to success, yet it was hardly alone in modern literature feature vampire/human romance, it was just better so others remain in obscurity.  For all this talk about intelligence, I expect you to exercise critical thinking.  Because so far all you've done is demonstrate an intolerance to people who enjoy things that you do not, accusing them of being unintelligent because they have different tastes.  If you are to continue to do so and expect to be taken seriously, you will be expected to demonstrate intelligence superior to their own or explain how one's tastes is a reflection of their intellect without having to rely solely on your opinion.  You must be objective when making such extraordinary claims.

@Everyone who disagrees with my claim: If not sales/profit, what would you consider to be the best objective measuring stick for quality?  I have yet to hear a single proposal.  Most people are just disagreeing outright, using their own opinions as evidence enough.  How should I be able to tell the difference which opinion is correct?  I get the feeling that people are disagreeing simply because they believe something to be high-quality but it's financially less successful than things that the same people consider low quality.  I urge you to explore beyond the limits of your own personal preferences and explain how one can recognize quality in something that you detest, or at least admit that you could be absolutely wrong when you believe that something is very good. 

 

Funny, I guess you missed my rant about how much I despise Heart of Darkenss, yet I realize it's a pretty impressive piece of work. That goes for a lot of things actually (I find shakespeare boring, especially his sonnets, and yet I cant deny their quality). I guess there goes your entire second and third paragraphs. I also happen to hate Jersey Shore, and I am totally well aware what a piece of shit it is. Alternatively, there is some book from RA Salvatore I really liked. Incredibly shitty characters and development and story, yet I loved it. That doesn't stop me from realizing it's a shitty book.

I also really liked your cookie jar idea. Are you saying that a regular cookie jar is of better quality than a TARDIS one? Or vice versa, if that's the case? Your entire logic is so full of holes.

 

Edit: The only thign that shows actual quality is the test of time. Shit is forgotten within a decade. Quality isn't.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

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DeadNotSleeping said:

@Everyone who disagrees with my claim: If not sales/profit, what would you consider to be the best objective measuring stick for quality?  I have yet to hear a single proposal.  Most people are just disagreeing outright, using their own opinions as evidence enough.  How should I be able to tell the difference which opinion is correct?  I get the feeling that people are disagreeing simply because they believe something to be high-quality but it's financially less successful than things that the same people consider low quality.  I urge you to explore beyond the limits of your own personal preferences and explain how one can recognize quality in something that you detest, or at least admit that you could be absolutely wrong when you believe that something is very good. 

@People who appreciate my grammar: thank you.  If I must sound insane, at least I appear lucid.

You're welcome!

I don't think there is a measuring stick, though.  Quality is subjective and as such, can only be measured by the person who's doing the evaluating.  When you go to see a movie because the trailer looked interesting and after the fact, you realize that you didn't enjoy it, you still paid your money.  Even though you didn't enjoy the experience, you just voted with your wallet for the wrong candidate.  If anything, it shows that the marketing agency did a better time convincing you that this would be something you enjoy.

Art:  Michael Jackson has created drawings and paintings that are valued at millions of dollars.  Do you think that who he was and the fact that he died may have something to do with the sudden value of his art?

Music:  In the early 2000's, "Boy Bands" dominated the radio and made tons and tons of money.  Groups that were around at the time like Blues Traveler, Santana, and Green Day paled in comparison, when it came to sales.  A decade later, these financially less successful musicians are still in demand or still get music played heavily on radio stations.  The pop groups (who had people that paid radio stations to keep their songs in heavy rotation) are mostly nowhere to be found.  Was it the quality of the music that made people like Ke$ha (whom I actually like, to be honest) and Justin Bieber into powerhouses or was it the quality of their marketing and image consultants that made the demand for them?

My house:  I'm just kidding.

I was going to give examples of television and movies and specific examples of each (including actual sales figures) but I don't really feel like doing research right now.  I'll just say that a dedicated fanbase with money can give a false impression.  I've actually bored myself.  I'll let some of our heavy hitters come in and argue with you if they want.  I'm out!



Who cares if it's quality, game companies are out to make money, not masterpieces. If the public laps up shit on a stick and pays for it, who's fault is that really?



More people buy cheap diamond rings than expensive ones, doesn't mean the cheap ones are of higher quality, all sales shows is a good price and a certain level of quality and more ofen than not sales goes hand in hand with marketing, NOT a direct measure of quality.



Xenostar said:
More people buy cheap diamond rings than expensive ones, doesn't mean the cheap ones are of higher quality, all sales shows is a good price and a certain level of quality and more ofen than not sales goes hand in hand with marketing, NOT a direct measure of quality.

You've just made the same mistake as so many others in this thread.  A diamond ring is not a form of entertainment; the quality of jewelery can be scientifically measured without bias.  Entertainment cannot.  Sales=Quality is a formula that can only be applied to things entirely subjective in nature, like entertainment. 

But onto that ring.  The scientific measurements in terms of quality would include the mass of the precious materials (the preciousness somewhat determined by the opinions and tastes of the population, might I add), the purity of each of them, the length of time it took to fashion the materials into the ring in question, and the distance it had to travel to reach the market.  Two rings equal in terms of the aforementioned attributes should have the same value provided they are both released within the same population...if it weren't for the artistic angle as well.

Some designs would be more appreciated by the customer than others, and the one that the customer likes the best would likely be the one purchased.  Given a dozen choices of rings of the same price, the customer will purchase the one preferred.  In this process, the quality of the work is determined.  The inferior designs won't sell so easily and will have to be adjusted in price to reflect its value, superior designs will increase in value.  The formula of Sales=Quality influences things thus, but since jewelery is not a form of entertainment or exclusively a piece of art, your example is an unsatisfactory rebuttle against my formula.



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wrong,wrong, wrong.



DeadNotSleeping said:
Xenostar said:
More people buy cheap diamond rings than expensive ones, doesn't mean the cheap ones are of higher quality, all sales shows is a good price and a certain level of quality and more ofen than not sales goes hand in hand with marketing, NOT a direct measure of quality.

You've just made the same mistake as so many others in this thread.  A diamond ring is not a form of entertainment; the quality of jewelery can be scientifically measured without bias.  Entertainment cannot.  Sales=Quality is a formula that can only be applied to things entirely subjective in nature, like entertainment. 

But onto that ring.  The scientific measurements in terms of quality would include the mass of the precious materials (the preciousness somewhat determined by the opinions and tastes of the population, might I add), the purity of each of them, the length of time it took to fashion the materials into the ring in question, and the distance it had to travel to reach the market.  Two rings equal in terms of the aforementioned attributes should have the same value provided they are both released within the same population...if it weren't for the artistic angle as well.

Some designs would be more appreciated by the customer than others, and the one that the customer likes the best would likely be the one purchased.  Given a dozen choices of rings of the same price, the customer will purchase the one preferred.  In this process, the quality of the work is determined.  The inferior designs won't sell so easily and will have to be adjusted in price to reflect its value, superior designs will increase in value.  The formula of Sales=Quality influences things thus, but since jewelery is not a form of entertainment or exclusively a piece of art, your example is an unsatisfactory rebuttle against my formula.

sales = quality only  when everything else is equal, as with the rings you said if they were all the same price, well that never happens. And its the same in entertainment, sales = quality AND price AND value AND Marketing etc, it certianly  isnt a 1 to 1 relationship with quality alone, never has never will be, we live in an open market, not one where all other things are equal.  



DeadNotSleeping said:
Xenostar said:
More people buy cheap diamond rings than expensive ones, doesn't mean the cheap ones are of higher quality, all sales shows is a good price and a certain level of quality and more ofen than not sales goes hand in hand with marketing, NOT a direct measure of quality.

You've just made the same mistake as so many others in this thread.  A diamond ring is not a form of entertainment; the quality of jewelery can be scientifically measured without bias.  Entertainment cannot.  Sales=Quality is a formula that can only be applied to things entirely subjective in nature, like entertainment. 

But onto that ring.  The scientific measurements in terms of quality would include the mass of the precious materials (the preciousness somewhat determined by the opinions and tastes of the population, might I add), the purity of each of them, the length of time it took to fashion the materials into the ring in question, and the distance it had to travel to reach the market.  Two rings equal in terms of the aforementioned attributes should have the same value provided they are both released within the same population...if it weren't for the artistic angle as well.

Some designs would be more appreciated by the customer than others, and the one that the customer likes the best would likely be the one purchased.  Given a dozen choices of rings of the same price, the customer will purchase the one preferred.  In this process, the quality of the work is determined.  The inferior designs won't sell so easily and will have to be adjusted in price to reflect its value, superior designs will increase in value.  The formula of Sales=Quality influences things thus, but since jewelery is not a form of entertainment or exclusively a piece of art, your example is an unsatisfactory rebuttle against my formula.

Funny because you dont address any of the rebuttals that are actually valid. For example, Porn >> other entertainment.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 



As many have said, there are various factors that an affect sales. Advertising, release date, exposure etc.

For example, if Halo Wars released without the Halo name, it would have sold less, even if it was the same game with the same level of quality.