I truly wish that would be the case though I fear that the average Lybian will have no say in the matter. The west has just spent billions during this 6 month military campaign and somebody will have to pay for the cost. No doubt Libya will have to cover the bill and in doing so will become economically dependent on the west.

The fact that this became a full fledged military intervention despite the fact that the resolution was meant to be used to enforce a no fly zone indicates to me a rather ominous outcome for Lybia.

@Rath

The Arab spring is a separate situation. Those uprisings were caused by poverty and very unpopular political decision making. As an example in Egypt Mubarak was viewed as not only being corrupt but a traitor working for America and Israel.

In contrast you have Libya which had one of the highest standards of living. They had millions of migrant workers and helpers. Why would a population that is comfortable want to risk it all. It is a very different situation in countries like Egypt where most people had nothing to lose.

hunter_alien said: Now what? Now, NATO members will rape the country for every drop of oil they have and call it a day Even tough Lybia is celebrating right now, seeing how divided the rebels are Im afraid a new power struggle will start, possibly even a much bloodier power struggle. Lets be honest, Egypt wont have a real democratic system for a looong time, and I doubt that Lybia, a country that is far less evolved, will do better. I know that my opinion will probably be looked down, and I will be in the minority, but IMO Gadaffi was the lesser evil here, and for a country like that, sometimes a dictator is better in the short term. They should have waited until he dies, and maybe then try and make an easier transition on their own.

I couldn't agree more. It should be up to the Libyans and sovereign countries in general to decide which path to take. Unfortunately in this world today we have a situation where only might makes right and the powerful nations prey on the militarily weaker ones.

Glad to see others with a similar view regarding this tragedy that has unfolded.

First, about your earlier comment: Somebody has to cover the cost, true. But better that, than let Benghazi become the blood bath it would've been without the intervention. The Arab countries wouldn't help them at first (most unfortunately)...so somebody had to. They have to keep it strictly on a level of mutual respect.

Now then, about the italicized: My father's friends at work whom are Libyans have told me Libya's infrastructure is really lagging. Not that here in Saudi Arabia the infrastructure is that much better, but still.

Branko2166 said: hunter_alien said: Now what? Now, NATO members will rape the country for every drop of oil they have and call it a day Even tough Lybia is celebrating right now, seeing how divided the rebels are Im afraid a new power struggle will start, possibly even a much bloodier power struggle. Lets be honest, Egypt wont have a real democratic system for a looong time, and I doubt that Lybia, a country that is far less evolved, will do better. I know that my opinion will probably be looked down, and I will be in the minority, but IMO Gadaffi was the lesser evil here, and for a country like that, sometimes a dictator is better in the short term. They should have waited until he dies, and maybe then try and make an easier transition on their own. I couldn't agree more. It should be up to the Libyans and sovereign countries in general to decide which path to take. Unfortunately in this world today we have a situation where only might makes right and the powerful nations prey on the militarily weaker ones. Glad to see others with a similar view regarding this tragedy that has unfolded.

It is true, this happened in Sudan to keep the north from the rich petrol fields in the south. But I disagree about waiting for Muammar to die. His son's no better.

But I have been watching the news, and questions like these popped up. The Libyan higher ups seem to be quite aware of what the intervention could mean.

I also noticed Turkey's involvement in the intervention was kind of dodgy. Notice how Erdogan was often asking NATO to reduce the airstrikes amongst other things, even though Erdogan is very supportive of his fellow Muslim countries. He knows there likely was/is a dirty game involved. So I dunno, it's really best to wait and see how things unfold.

A lot of the cause behind the uprisings is oppression - there is a demand for freedoms and for reduction of corruption. Libya was more oppressed by Gadaffi than Egypt by Mubarak.

It seems that Mai was right: Saif al-Islam is still free for the moment. It seems we will have to wait for more specific confirmations before jumping at anything

huaxiong90 said: Branko2166 said: hunter_alien said: Now what? Now, NATO members will rape the country for every drop of oil they have and call it a day Even tough Lybia is celebrating right now, seeing how divided the rebels are Im afraid a new power struggle will start, possibly even a much bloodier power struggle. Lets be honest, Egypt wont have a real democratic system for a looong time, and I doubt that Lybia, a country that is far less evolved, will do better. I know that my opinion will probably be looked down, and I will be in the minority, but IMO Gadaffi was the lesser evil here, and for a country like that, sometimes a dictator is better in the short term. They should have waited until he dies, and maybe then try and make an easier transition on their own. I couldn't agree more. It should be up to the Libyans and sovereign countries in general to decide which path to take. Unfortunately in this world today we have a situation where only might makes right and the powerful nations prey on the militarily weaker ones. Glad to see others with a similar view regarding this tragedy that has unfolded. It is true, this happened in Sudan to keep the north from the rich petrol fields in the south. But I disagree about waiting for Muammar to die. His son's no better. But I have been watching the news, and questions like these popped up. The Libyan higher ups seem to be quite aware of what the intervention could mean. I also noticed Turkey's involvement in the intervention was kind of dodgy. Notice how Erdogan was often asking NATO to reduce the airstrikes amongst other things, even though Erdogan is very supportive of his fellow Muslim countries. He knows there likely was/is a dirty game involved. So I dunno, it's really best to wait and see how things unfold.

Usually a power transition is easier that way. A dead leader has far more loyalists then the inheritant, so who knows, maybe it could have been resolved with a couple of smaller riots and a democratic overthrow. Of course this is just pure specualtion...

Allas, Im hoping the best for the Lybian people, but there is still a long way to democracy

Apparenlty it was not so apparent :(

This is one the most fucked up operation I've seen in years

I'm fucking angry that those spec ops couldn't kill the man for half a year already.

I don't see how you can get the issues solved without any violence.  Hell, you can't even get stagnation without any violence.  

Honestly, I'd say Israel is actually pretty restrained compaired to how most countries would act if they were having rockets shot into their country on a daily basis. 

Think how most countries would act to that.  Most countries would go in there constantly with armies far more then Israel does and haul anyone remotely suspected of being in connection with the groups firing rockets and then probably deport them.  Including the most liberal of europeon countries.

Espiecally with the number of children with PTSD.

Palestine should take a lesson from the Irish... build what's left of your nation into a respectable nation with it's own economy and army... and then have terrorists.

Right now the Palestinians are being stubborn and foolish... in a situation in which they have almost no barganing power.