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Forums - Politics Discussion - Why doesn't the world recognize Canada's military contributions?

PDF said:
welshbloke said:
@PDF

Without Canada and in fact the commonwealth forces in total I am not so sure the US would of had anything to come to rescue too so in that respect you could say without them the outcome would of been completely different. Also the war even with the US War machine was not so clear cut even at this point and had the Axis powers made some different decisions the result could easily of been very different.


The only real decision the Axis could have made differently that would have turned the war was if Hitler didnt betray Stalin.  

The war could have been longer drawn out, more cassualites could have happpened, more axis victories in certain battles sure.  The Axis howerver were doomed to lose in retrospect.   They bit off more than they could chew.

I do not know exactly to what extent Canada did to keep Britain alive.   I do know if Britain would have been invaded that itself would have been very drawn out and would cause major casualties for Germany.

Germany plan was to simply bomb the crap out of them, now if England did fall the War could have gone very differently.   Then Germany would have been focused on fighting Russia one on one and could have been succesfull during the initial invasion.  However as soon as Germany failed in Russia it was over for them.  It is largely agreed that Russia alone at that point could have defeated Germany.

 

Edit - 

Now Claiming the War could have not been won without Russia, or the USA would be accurate as there was no other country in the world at the time that could stand agaisnt the axis but those two.  Claiming it could have not been won without Canada is still false imo.  Did they help yes tremendously over a million men served for Canada.  Thats a huge help but not the deciding factor





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@PDF
Because the forums still sucks for anyone using IE9

The other obvious choice they could of invaded Britain, that would of prevented the US from getting a foothold in Europe. They could of pulled back from Russia for example and waited for a better time to drive home its gains. They did not and thats history.

I think it is fair to say the war would of been different had we not had the Commonwealth forces in significant numbers such as India, Canada and Australia fighting with us prior to the US entry into the war. Without these forces the war could of been over before the US cavalry came over the hill... Again that did not happen and thats history.



W.L.B.B. Member, Portsmouth Branch.

(Welsh(Folk) Living Beyond Borders)

Winner of the 2010 VGC Holiday sales prediction thread with an Average 1.6% accuracy rating. I am indeed awesome.

Kinect as seen by PS3 owners ...if you can pick at it   ...post it ... Did I mention the 360 was black and Shinny? Keeping Sigs obscure since 2007, Passed by the Sig police 5July10.

To be honest the only good Canadian product I know is:

Robin Scherbatsky.



updated: 14.01.2012

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fordy said:
PDF said:


The only real decision the Axis could have made differently that would have turned the war was if Hitler didnt betray Stalin.  


I'd go one further and say if Hitler didn't try to attack Russia during one of the coldest winters of it's time. The Russians had a massive advantage there. Had it been a different season, the Nazis could have very well beat Russia, and in sequence, Hitler would not have cancelled his battle plans for the invasion of Britain (which he had to cancel to keep up the offense against the Russians, I believe)

America would have had a lot more difficult time with just the ANZACs and the Canadians helping them liberate Europe, especially with the Japanese keeping the majority of the ANZACs busy in the Pacific.

The Battle of Britain took place before the major strides into Russia, if I remember correctly.

Hitler lost to the RAF, and had to turn to the USSR sooner than he hoped to keep his economy ticking.

And OT - The Soviet Union does not get as much credit for WW2 as the USA/UK in the Western World, even thought it destroyed the vast majority of the Wehrmacht. I think that's a bigger issue.



S____M____C____C said:
fordy said:
PDF said:


The only real decision the Axis could have made differently that would have turned the war was if Hitler didnt betray Stalin.  


I'd go one further and say if Hitler didn't try to attack Russia during one of the coldest winters of it's time. The Russians had a massive advantage there. Had it been a different season, the Nazis could have very well beat Russia, and in sequence, Hitler would not have cancelled his battle plans for the invasion of Britain (which he had to cancel to keep up the offense against the Russians, I believe)

America would have had a lot more difficult time with just the ANZACs and the Canadians helping them liberate Europe, especially with the Japanese keeping the majority of the ANZACs busy in the Pacific.

The Battle of Britain took place before the major strides into Russia, if I remember correctly.

Hitler lost to the RAF, and had to turn to the USSR sooner than he hoped to keep his economy ticking.

And OT - The Soviet Union does not get as much credit for WW2 as the USA/UK in the Western World, even thought it destroyed the vast majority of the Wehrmacht. I think that's a bigger issue.


The Battle of Britain wasn't planned invasion, only attack. I'm talking about Operation Sea Lion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea_Lion

And I agree with you with what the Soviets went through with the Nazis. Many described the invasion of the USSR by Germany as a force of imeasurable quantity. They were planning to capture Moscow within 6 weeks after all. Stalin had to even invoke the Scorched Earth policy, in which all assets were burned by fleeing Soviets in order for the Germans not to utilise them.



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PDF said:

The only real decision the Axis could have made differently that would have turned the war was if Hitler didnt betray Stalin.  

The war could have been longer drawn out, more cassualites could have happpened, more axis victories in certain battles sure.  The Axis howerver were doomed to lose in retrospect.   They bit off more than they could chew.

I do not know exactly to what extent Canada did to keep Britain alive.   I do know if Britain would have been invaded that itself would have been very drawn out and would cause major casualties for Germany.

Germany plan was to simply bomb the crap out of them, now if England did fall the War could have gone very differently.   Then Germany would have been focused on fighting Russia one on one and could have been succesfull during the initial invasion.  However as soon as Germany failed in Russia it was over for them.  It is largely agreed that Russia alone at that point could have defeated Germany.

Edit - 

Now Claiming the War could have not been won without Russia, or the USA would be accurate as there was no other country in the world at the time that could stand agaisnt the axis but those two.  Claiming it could have not been won without Canada is still false imo.  Did they help yes tremendously over a million men served for Canada.  Thats a huge help but not the deciding factor

Couple things going on here, that I thought I'd chime in on:

1)  Operation Sea Lion WAS Hitler's plan to invade Britain - he absolutely had every intention of invading them.  The reason he was never able to (history would suggest at least) was becuase Germany never understood the value of British radar and therefore were never able to gain air or sea superiority in the English channel.

2)  I would also argue that Hitler's biggest challenge was over-extending himself.  Fighting large scale wars on both his eastern and western fronts over-extended his forces, which were probably the most technically advanced and hardened armed forces in the world (definitely true circa 1943-44, not so much later in the war).  Further, by pressing the attack during the winter months, he set his troops up for failure, when they did not acheive the quick victory he expected before winter, they probably should have pulled back.

I dig WWII history though, so could talk about it for hours.

As far as Canada is concerned, while I understand the ops consternation at the lack of recognition, it's not as if there aren't plenty of other allies who are also not widely recognized for thier contributions to the allies victory in WWII.  Britain stood resolute and America and Russia emerged as super powers post WWII, fair or unfair, that is how history has been recorded.



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Joelcool7 said:

Alright so this is a major beef I have with the game and film industries. Canada always gets made fun of picked on and such. Never does Canada actually get credit for what they did in WWI, WWII, Cold War Era, Korea...etc....etc... America always takes all the credit. Infact CoD3 was the first game and the last that I know of to actually have Canadian's mentioned and active in the game.

USA cause the war most of the itme so it getsb the reward and canada always plays second fiddel just like AUSTRALIA as a second army to UK.

Infact in WWII Canada had the third largest Navy in the world and one of the largest armed forces. If it weren't for Canada WWII probably would have been lost. Canada was responsable for Liberating a shit load of Europe. Yet the movies and games based on WWII always mention America and Britian sometimes even the French militaries. But what about Canada?

LIBERATING?................lol

USA is always mentioned cause most of the movies and games are made in USA and have an audience

also that 'LIBERATING'that u use is actually wrong as World War II defeat actually let USA globalise the economy,sit at top and make other work for it and adopt it as the popular culture.

it allowed USA to make the whole world a capitalitic economy

I find it so irritating that Canada played such a huge role in almost every major conflict this century yet nobody recognizes their contributions. Now I get it that in Europe their are mass cemetaries with Canadian soldiers and that in Europe some countries are very grateful. But it seems for the most part that everybody remembers what American's have done, what the British have done. What France what Russia etc...etc...

Canada has never cause it,it just goes in as an allie or comonwealth to UK

But Canada is almost always left out. The only times we really get mentioned is when Canadian film makers make a war movie. But even in Canada often film makers would rather glorify the mighty American's in WWII rather then give the credit that is due to our men and women in uniform.

cause WWII let USA globalise and set itself as the popular culture spot.

Its so angering knowing soldiers from my country gave their lives in service and they aren't even given credit in video games or movies!

only if those soilders hadn't supported USA,you would have ur people making films about urself



What's Canada?



I also find it really irritating, all though you're exaggerating saying the war could have been lost without Canada.

We had great successes, especially on D-Day and the Italian campaign. And of course as you say we liberated much of Europe. If I was putting more time into this post I could think of more stuff we did. I took a class entirely on Canada's Second World War in first year University.