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Forums - General - Woe to the nations that mess with Israel

Player1x3 said:


God doesnt allow so. People themselves allow. Devil doesnt any power over human free will neither does God. You gotta love when people who dont even believe in God start blaming him for everything bad in the world. Devil isnt some naughty little red rascal like you see in hollywood movies that simply chooses to torture people for his own pleasure. Devil is a presentation or a symbol of a sin, everything that is bad and evil within mankind

The Book of Job does not paint it at all that way.



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Those who attack Israel already feel Israel's wrath, so no need for God.



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And this is why all kinds of actual religious believers are kind of scaring me, no matter if they are muslims, zionists or christians. It's hard to take someone serious who actually believes stuff as ridiculous as this.

In the long run, I personally believe that Israel's fate is doomed btw. For decades, Israel behaved like a dislikeable, anti-social schoolchild that nobody really liked, but nobody ever openly criticized as well, basically because everyone is afraid of his heavily armed big brother (USA). That strategy worked fine (and still does), but with the big brother slowly but constantly losing it's power, times are getting worse for Israel as well.

Instead of mentally dividing the world into jews and antisemites, Israel should finally seek real peace and friendship with their neighbors!

Anyway, since I want to fly my kite now, a little more wind would be welcome, so:
Jehovah, Jehovah!



@OP: God is right here, sitting at my left O-), and he says he never told you anything and never he will.



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Rath said:
Player1x3 said:
 


God doesnt allow so. People themselves allow. Devil doesnt any power over human free will neither does God. You gotta love when people who dont even believe in God start blaming him for everything bad in the world. Devil isnt some naughty little red rascal like you see in hollywood movies that simply chooses to torture people for his own pleasure. Devil is a presentation or a symbol of a sin, everything that is bad and evil within mankind

The Book of Job does not paint it at all that way.


Bible describes Satan, the fallen Angel, I was talkiang about the genral concept of devil, which isnt exclusive to Christianity



This entire OP is pointless from a religious perspective.

The entire rise of the state of Israel based on biblical basis was only AFTER the coming/return of the messiah. As he would actually be the organizer of such a feat.

However, no Messiah has ever come according to Jews and Jesus hasn't returned according to Christians/Muslims.

This is also the reason why there are large swaths of Jews outside of Israel who think it should not be as the messiah hasn't returned to make it so. (Google it.. i have no interest in providing links... its easy to find)



chocoloco said:
Joelcool7 said:
chocoloco said:



Straight out of wikapedia the most reliable source on the internet. Once again, the rational thinking of science blows away the crazy rants of nut jobs and trouble makers.


Now I agree the main post was pretty whacked out. Your scientific logic doesnt' nescessarily prove him wrong. Since God created the US he could have easily created it in a way that the US would get the most Tornado's. You see the Bible which he believes in says that God knows all and sees all. So if he knew the US was going to do something to Israel, he could have easily built these punishments into its geographical landscape.

I'm not saying your wrong, just saying science won't prove him so. The only way to really talk to a religious person (Who you refer to as a nutjob) is if you understand the fundementals of their beliefs. If you understood the fundementals of their beliefs you'd realize science doesn't prove them wrong.

Also this science won't stop any nut jobs or trouble makers anymore then my science and faith would stop athiest nut jobs. You have to understand their beliefs and that you have no chance in hell of changing those beliefs without first understanding the logic behind them.

First off Joel, I will make this clear to you since you think I have no understanding of Christianity. Unlike many of the agnostics/ atheists on this site I was actually raised Christian and prayed to god every night until I was 14. Of course eventually, I developed the ability to think abstractly and examined my religious beliefs and decided there was no reason to believe in them.

Very similiar to me, except I was about 10 when I decided God wasn't real or at least not Christ. I spent the next two years researching other religions and beliefs both Theist and Athiest. I read huge hunks of the Qur'an as well as Buddhist texts etc...etc... went to the Sihk Temple in my city and visited a Synagogue. I really decided to find out the truth for myself.

The only difference really is when I was twelve I came back to the realization that Jesus was God. In the end I had come up with three main religious views which I found to be logical (Not that your views are illogical) and in the end I had three to pick from. Catholicism, Judiasm and Protestant Christianity. In the end I chose my own fourth option (Christianity).

What do I mean, I mean I am not Protestant nor am I Catholic. I am non-denominational. I chose a church but attended mutliple church's at a time. I built my own beliefs based around the Bible and instead of believing anything I was told every decision I make in life I research in both my Bible and using my own mind.

I'm not that much unlike yourself. Since I too lost my faith, only difference is I refound it and you found a new belief. But both of us chose our beliefs freely and based on our own research and moral foundations.

It's sorta cool that both of us entered that phase of not knowing and not believing around the same age. I wonder how many other Christian's Muslim's , Jews and even Athiests and such find their own views. So many these days just believe what their parent's have taught them or what their proffessors or teachers teach them. Rather then finding their own beliefs.

Infact I ran into a Christian not to long ago who told me they were beginning to wonder if God existed. Instead of saying yah he exists I told the person to go out and form their own beliefs. I told them specifically that simply believing what they are told is not belief at all. If they want to truly have faith they must go out into the world and come to terms with their own beliefs. I later got alittle balled out by another Christian, but I found my own beliefs and I think every single person on earth should as well. Its not healthy to just believe something because your told to, you need to come to those beliefs yourself.



-JC7

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@Joelcool7
That's an interesting spiritual experience.
I started as christian, then became an atheist and now would be best described as agnostic.

I respect the path you took to your decison. You seeked, analysed and came to a conclusion. unlike many.
In many ways speculative science and religion are the same thing. We are told to believe what cannot be proven.
Science is also a religion in certain ways.

For example every scientist on the planet would tell you when pushed that many of what people take for facts are only scientific theory, from the big bang to some states of the universe. Yet many take these theories as gospel.

It is also interesting that the most outspoken atheist of them all Dawkins is not 100% sure there is no God...somewhere in the 90s percent sure.

The way I see it:
In the past "the church" told the masses what to believe about the state of things, we know better now.
Now the scientists tell us what to believe, but this is always changing and can be contradictory.

So when scientist speak of the past 10 billion years ago with such clarity and authority I am not convinced.

When they speak of stuff going on light years away in the universe I am not convinced.

When they can't come to a conclusion on global warming, (man-made or natural, threat or no threat) something that is actually going on in their time and on their planet I am not convinced....More worrying is that the scientists are now in the pockets of big businesses and government propaganda.

When people sprout religious prophecies and God I am not convinced.

I will keep searching for the answers that will hopefuly sastify me should my life be long enough on this planet.

As for Israel and it's enemies I remember some of this stuff from church.
So God promised that the Israelites will be persecuted all their lifes and those doing the persecuting will suffer. Those that do them good will be blessed.
It's how the believers define "suffer" and "blessed" that is not clear.
In centuries past in Europe the jews suffered whilst the nations that persecuted them grew and conquered the world.
Germany fell a in big way for their persecution and the USSR became a superpower for theirs.
Makes no sense.

End of lunch, back to work.



Dr.Grass said:
@OP

IF ANYTHING, the history of Israel makes a strong case that the Bible is not the absolute truth.

I mean seriously, WHO would promise people something and then make them suffer for thousands of years without givnig them what was promised!?

God also warned the Jews that they would be spread across the Earth and be hated by the nations if they disobeyed Him which happened. But God said that in the last days they will return to the land of Israel.

It seems like it proves the Bible is the truth to me.